Oil cooler hoses

[ArtVandelay]

I had all my hoses replaced (oil & fuel) in my J, they were consider unserviceable, 6 hrs of labor at $85/hour and the hose kit was $1350 for a total of about $1850. They were 18 yrs old.

[mike_elliott]

Don't even ask what it costs to redo a Bravo..

[RLCarter]

Time wise it seems about right, I spent about 2.5 hrs but the plane was already de-cowled and all I did was remove the old hoses fab new ones install the fire sleeve and reinstall them, safety wiring the Prop after installing a new belt was a royal PITA. 

[Yetti]

$100 for the belt - a bit much more like $25 - depends on where you source from

and $300 for the two  oil cooler hoses. - Depends on if you got fancy silicon light tan - also have to cut up a wrench to get one of them tight.  Not as fun to do with the mags on.    http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ep/hose_0stratoflex.html

 They did take off my oil cooler and I had them reinstall my old one. -the oil lines and oil cooler together is 2 hrs. if in the cowl can be a bit tricky for what should be a simple 4 bolt affair. 30-45 minutes  Include a flush?  about right

 I think the prop/ alternator belt is 2 1/2 hrs,  about right.

  Total time is 4 1/2 hrs. The shop bill is $1200 which I have not paid as of yet. Subtract the parts at $400 from the $1200 bill leaves $800 for labor. $800/4.5 hrs is about $175/hr. So, is that out of line?  Depends on the agreed to hourly rate

[nels]

$100 for the belt - a bit much more like $25 - depends on where you source from

and $300 for the two  oil cooler hoses. - Depends on if you got fancy silicon light tan - also have to cut up a wrench to get one of them tight.  Not as fun to do with the mags on.    http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ep/hose_0stratoflex.html

 They did take off my oil cooler and I had them reinstall my old one. -the oil lines and oil cooler together is 2 hrs. if in the cowl can be a bit tricky for what should be a simple 4 bolt affair. 30-45 minutes  Include a flush?  about right

 I think the prop/ alternator belt is 2 1/2 hrs,  about right.

  Total time is 4 1/2 hrs. The shop bill is $1200 which I have not paid as of yet. Subtract the parts at $400 from the $1200 bill leaves $800 for labor. $800/4.5 hrs is about $175/hr. So, is that out of line?  Depends on the agreed to hourly rate

Shop rate is $70/hr. Told me he paid over $600 for the two hoses.

[N601RX]

Another option for the 2 oil cooler hoses is to install the Laser oil cooler relocation.  It comes with 2 new hoses and cost around $500 a few years ago.  In addition to the new hoses it saves a couple of pounds and gets the hoses away from the exhaust.

[Yetti]

it is $1100.00 for eight firewall forward fancy internal fire sleeved silicon hoses from PHT when you by the whole set

[mike_elliott]

it is $1100.00 for eight firewall forward fancy internal fire sleeved silicon hoses from PHT when you by the whole set

times 3.5 for a bravo

[Guest]

Shop rate is $70/hr. Told me he paid over $600 for the two hoses.

To be fair you should be sitting down with the owner and asking for an explanation and possibly to see the work sheet with time stamps to clarify the labour and ask for a copy of the hose suppliers invoice.  Some won't agree, but he is entitled to a mark up on the parts just as his shop rate is higher than wage rate.

Whats not said or asked as yet, did he pick up and return the plane from your hangar? I assume there was some log entries involved as well?  All of these things add to the time required.

You may want to open the cowls to see that the hoses are installed correctly, the E model uses a number f Adel style clamps throughout, a few by the left tail pipe, a few securing the hoses to each other and a few securing them to the firewall.  All are required, and many are omitted.

Clarence

[jetdriven]

it is $1100.00 for eight firewall forward fancy internal fire sleeved silicon hoses from PHT when you by the whole set

mine was 900$ 3 years ago that was 124J integral fire sleeve.  600$ for two hoses is so far out of line as to be laughable.  That's ridiculous. 

[nels]

To be fair you should be sitting down with the owner and asking for an explanation and possibly to see the work sheet with time stamps to clarify the labour and ask for a copy of the hose suppliers invoice.  Some won't agree, but he is entitled to a mark up on the parts just as his shop rate is higher than wage rate.

Whats not said or asked as yet, did he pick up and return the plane from your hangar? I assume there was some log entries involved as well?  All of these things add to the time required.

You may want to open the cowls to see that the hoses are installed correctly, the E model uses a number f Adel style clamps throughout, a few by the left tail pipe, a few securing the hoses to each other and a few securing them to the firewall.  All are required, and many are omitted.

Clarence

Clarence,  the plane is tied down with him so no transport. I actually like the guy and did confront him and he knocked the price down some what. I do think he marked all the items up and I expect some of that but not as drastically as this case. I think he might use better judgement next time. With bills like that I would just throw in the towel or find another place to tie down and get my maintenance. I also learned a lesson: don't just walk over and ask for work to be done; best to research parts prices, and check to see if I am actually able to do the work myself. Maybe I learned a worth while lesson.

[Yetti]

If he does good work and you trust him there is something to be said.  He has tools, rent and training time and documentation time. And Mooney take a bit longer to work on so there is something there.  You would have to go find the mandrels and a vice to make the hoses yourself.

[DonMuncy]

 

 

 hydraulic

1. 1.

   denoting, relating to, or operated by a liquid moving in a confined space under pressure.

   "hydraulic fluid"
2. 2.

    

Just to play devil's advocate a little, Mike, the "confined space" might eliminate the oil cooler lines. I read this to mean, because the fluid is confined, its failure to have an outlet, causes it to push/move something. Because the oil cooler oil is free to migrate from whence it came, it can't do any real work. Do you like all those technical words. 

[mike_elliott]

You might be absolutely right here, and I have made quite a few for the race cars, but I'll let pht build them for the airplane and have an A$P sign the install, otherwise I might have to hire a lawyer if the FAA so chooses to make an issue of owner maintenance.

[Gary0747]

How frequent do you replace oil and fuel line hoses?

[Yetti]

They are past due when they look like this.  I think these were 1989 version

 

[ArtVandelay]

How frequent do you replace oil and fuel line hoses?

My MSC said "by feel", once they become stiff they should be replaced.

[jetdriven]

My MSC said "by feel", once they become stiff they should be replaced.

Teflon hoses take a permanent set after they've been in service a while but they are airworthy. It's in AC43.13. So stiff by itself I'm not sure requires replacement. No 12 year interval, it's on condition, too. 

Tefon hose is used in many aircraft systems because it has superior qualities for certain applications.  Teflon is compounded from tetrafluoroethylene resin which is unaffected by fluids normally used in aircraft.  It has an operating range of -65°F to 450 °F.  For these reasons, Teflon is used in hydraulic and engine lubricating systems where temperatures and pressures preclude the use of rubber hose.  Although Teflon hose has excellent performance qualities, it also has peculiar characteristics that require extra care in handling.  It tends to assume a permanent set when exposed to high pressure or temperature.  Do not attempt to straighten a hose that has been in service.  Any excessive bending or twisting may cause kinking or weakening of the tubing wall.  Replace any hose that shows signs of leakage, abrasion, or kinking.  Any hose suspected of kinking may be checked with a steel ball of proper size.  Table 94 shows hose and ball sizes.  The ball will not pass through if the hose is distorted beyond limits.

 

 

 

from: http://www.skypassion.com/web-content/TOOLS/FAAdocs/Ch_09-02.doc

Edited September 23, 2015 by jetdriven

[RobertGary1]

My MSC said "by feel", once they become stiff they should be replaced.

As lot of old car mechanics say the same but modern materials make that obsolete.

 

-Robert

[ArtVandelay]

As lot of old car mechanics say the same but modern materials make that obsolete.

 

-Robert

Mine were 18 years old anyway, they also changed my brake hoses for same reason.

[RobertGary1]

Mine were 18 years old anyway, they also changed my brake hoses for same reason.

That's a good idea. I've been going through my plane and replacing hoses. I'll probably also replace the small fuel hose at the wing root. I've never heard of anyone changing it but if it leaked it would leak fuel directly in the cockpit. It looks like an automotive hose, which I wouldn't expect to last 20 years. But then again, I'm not sure I've heard of them breaking.

 

-Robert

[N201MKTurbo]

Don't forget the hose from the flap pump to the flap cylinder! And the hoses for the fuel and oil pressure gauges.

Edited September 25, 2015 by N201MKTurbo

[RobertGary1]

$800 seems like a lot to me. But i'd have offered $50 to inspect the work after I finished.  Easy money for the A&P and he doesn't get dirty. 

 

-Robeer

[jetdriven]

Don't forget the hose from the flap pump to the flap cylinder! And the hoses for the fuel and oil pressure gauges.

I changed my fuel pressure gauge hose and my brake hoses on the main gear last year.  Both were dated 1976.  They mighta still had another couple years left.  Come to think of it, my oil pressure gauge hose is still the original one.  Maybe next year 

[M20F-1968]

I have some new teflon, intergrally fire-sleeved oil line hoses which I did not end up using when I rebuild my plane.  Let me know what lengths and fittings you need.  I may have some hoses you could use.

John Breda

john.breda@gmail.com

(617) 877-0025