Worst Landing Stories

[WardHolbrook]

My worst landing ever? Simple, it was with a Lear 35 at Grinnell IA (GGI) about 20 years ago. We used to fly there a lot and on that short runway (for a Lear) it was always a "chop and plop". That particular evening, there was a whole bunch more "plop" than usual. It was most embarrassing. As he was exiting the airplane, the boss asked me if I wanted to go practice that some more. You could see the rubber marks where the main gear dual wheels touched down for 3 or 4 years afterward. Definitely not my proudest moment in an airplane.

However, that was then, this is now and I am very happy to report that since that evening 20 years ago, I have finally discovered the secret to making perfect landings every time. In the beginning, I figured that it had to do with maintaining a stabilized approach and proper airspeed control; but obviously that wasn't it. I then worked up a theory that involved planetary alignment and moon phases. I was getting closer. I finally put it all together when I figured out how to hold my mouth - you have hold it just right and the planets have to be in proper alignment and the moon has to be in the proper phase, in addition to flying a nice smooth stabilized approach and exercising proper airspeed control. If you get a greaser other than when you're doing all of that you're just lucky.

[Alan Fox]

My worst landing ever? Simple, it was with a Lear 35 at Grinnell IA (GGI) about 20 years ago. We used to fly there a lot and on that short runway (for a Lear) it was always a "chop and plop". That particular evening, there was a whole bunch more "plop" than usual. It was most embarrassing. As he was exiting the airplane, the boss asked me if I wanted to go practice that some more. You could see the rubber marks where the main gear dual wheels touched down for 3 or 4 years afterward. Definitely not my proudest moment in an airplane.

However, that was then, this is now and I am very happy to report that since that evening 20 years ago, I have finally discovered the secret to making perfect landings every time. In the beginning, I figured that it had to do with maintaining a stabilized approach and proper airspeed control; but obviously that wasn't it. I then worked up a theory that involved planetary alignment and moon phases. I was getting closer. I finally put it all together when I figured out how to hold my mouth - you have hold it just right and the planets have to be in proper alignment and the moon has to be in the proper phase, in addition to flying a nice smooth stabilized approach and exercising proper airspeed control. If you get a greaser other than when you're doing all of that you're just lucky.

I get lucky quite a bit..... The rest I blame on whatever I can think of.......

[201er]

My worst landing was just a couple of months after I finished my dual, and had just over 100 hours...

Landed uneventfully, pushed her in the hangar, unloaded a week's luggage and drove home. Figured out I had been porpoising because it felt so good to get home that I quit flying the plane in the flare. Did I say that was my longest XC at the time, 338 nm? PPL in May, bought Mooney in June, annual in July, finished dual September, MAPA PPP October, took long trip at Thanksgiving.

Hey, great story and glad it worked out ok. I think it well illustrates my reasoning for why a Mooney is not a beginners plane. Forget flying it prior to PP, even shortly after. There's more stuff to tinker with, the gear is more sensitive, airspeed control is less forgiving, etc. I really feel it's good to get the "longest xc" and "worst landing of my life" and "scared my pants wet" moments done and out of the way before buying your own plane any mainly a Mooney. I think that having experienced all sorts of things prior to getting into a more complex plane (that will require adjusting 3 power levers, cowl flaps, gear, flaps, and trim to go around), will allow the pilot to focus specifically on flying the plane and be less fixated with the situation. Of course there will come new situations, but at least the ones most likely to be experienced in the first 100 hours of Mooney flying will not be novel, and the ones you'll experience since you'll already be well acquainted with the plane and flying it will be second nature. For these reasons (and without giving too much meaning to the exact number) I don't feel that a Mooney is a good plane for a pilot with less than 200+ hours.

In retrospect would you agree with my analysis or do you still think it's good for a green pilot to jump into one and learn on the go?

[Hank]

I still maintain that a careful new pilot can handle a Mooney. My mistake that night was not related to the plane, but to me being glad to be home and I stopped flying in the flare. Could have happened in any aircraft, even a rental Cessna.

But my Mooney had the ability to pull my porpoising self back into the air and over the trees. The second time I gave it the full attention I should have the first time.

All new pilots learn something on every flight, if they leave the pattern for somewhere other than the Practice Area. I've had the plane for over 5 years now, picked up IA, flown from WV to both WY and FL, and I'm still learning things. Just three weeks ago, I learned to pull the Standby Vacuum knob when the AI shows a 30°climb with >45° left bank but eyes out the windshield said Straight and Level. So did HSI, compass and 430-CDI page.

[Marauder]

I transitioned to owning a Mooney fairly soon after getting my private. The biggest challenge was understanding everything that was happening a little bit sooner, otherwise you can truly consider yourself a back seat aviator.

The only landing that really unnerved me was one that also surprised me. I had flown a couple hundred hours in my Mooney when this landing occurred. i was comfortable with the plane and knew nailing the airspeed was critical at getting a decent landing. I had flown up to Vermont to pick up my wife and for the sake of being politically correct, plus sized sister-in-law. I had calculated W&B and knew I would be in limits, although after a several hour flight, with my plus sized sister-in-law in back, I would be further aft CG than all of the previous flights I had made.

It was a hot and humid day at my destination and as I was crossing the numbers, I found myself a bit nose higher and slower than normal. I elected to go around because the landing just didn't feel right. As I put in take-off power, I was surprised that I was in ground effect and not climbing at all. Still nose high and about 10 feet in the air, I retracted the gear which was enough to allow me to climb -- but not before I had covered almost the entire runway length. You hear about being behind the power curve or hanging off of the prop, but until you experience something like this, you realize that at anytime things can go wrong.

[WardHolbrook]

I still maintain that a careful new pilot can handle a Mooney. My mistake that night was not related to the plane, but to me being glad to be home and I stopped flying in the flare. Could have happened in any aircraft, even a rental Cessna.

But my Mooney had the ability to pull my porpoising self back into the air and over the trees. The second time I gave it the full attention I should have the first time.

All new pilots learn something on every flight, if they leave the pattern for somewhere other than the Practice Area. I've had the plane for over 5 years now, picked up IA, flown from WV to both WY and FL, and I'm still learning things. Just three weeks ago, I learned to pull the Standby Vacuum knob when the AI shows a 30°climb with >45° left bank but eyes out the windshield said Straight and Level. So did HSI, compass and 430-CDI page.

I agree. It's not all just about the hours in the logbook, it's about the total package that a pilot brings to the table. If a pilot is diligent about stuff like checklists, gets adequate transition training, is disciplined to always fly by the rules, has the basic skill to fly precise altitudes, headings & airspeed and has an appropriate amount of common sense, then there is seldom a problem. I've known plenty of guys with hundreds of hours that, because they lacked one or more of the above items, had no business in a complex, high-performance airplane like a Mooney. A few of those guys (and their passengers) are dead now.

[The-sky-captain]

"I don't feel that a Mooney is a good plane for a pilot with less than 200+ hours."

... I bought my J after logging 202 hrs in a Cherokee so I barely scraped by on 201er's minimum req's. That being said I did get stuck in night IMC (before my IFR ticket) and made several terrible landings the first 200 hours in the Cherokee.

[AmigOne]

Flown an ugly Mooney Bob?, Never!!

[AmigOne]

What happened to the picture of my Mooney?? went to More Reply Options, clicked the paper clip, found the picture, clicked post and nothing happened....it used to be simple, what am I doing wrong? 

[Jeff_S]

I want to credit this thread for helping me out during a flight last week. I took the bird up just to exercise the engine on one of the only nice days we had here during the holiday break. The flight was purely for fun and, as has been noted in another post, "to free my mind from the tyranny of petty thoughts."

 

The only trouble came as I was landing back at the home drome of PDK. Since this is a towered field they pick the runway for you, and because they have so much traffic that they have to keep moving they don't "switch runways" easily. Which means you're often landing with slight tailwinds because hey, those jet jockeys have reverse thrust so who cares?!

 

Anyway, I was on final flare and it just didn't want to come down, and for some reason I felt a little high. When it finally did come down the nose bounced into a true porpoise, and I didn't even wait around for the second one...just gunned the throttle and cleaned up for an honest, non-practice go-around. Of course I've trained for those and I'd like to think I would have done it anyway, but with this thread still in my mind it made the decision so much easier.

[Hank]

Good call, Jeff! Everything I've ever read says the third bounce is your prop strike. I went two bounces 'cause I wasn't paying attention and at first didn't know what was going on. If anything isn't right, go around and try again; it's never a bad decision.

[Seth]

Good call, Jeff! Everything I've ever read says the third bounce is your prop strike. I went two bounces 'cause I wasn't paying attention and at first didn't know what was going on. If anything isn't right, go around and try again; it's never a bad decision.

 

+1   -   I was once told, "A go around should be expected with every landing, and if you land, then it's a surprise."  I'm not sure if I agree with that, as the point of landing is to land, but I am indeed ready for that go-around.  One time I did not go around early enough and should have.  I'll post about that shortly.

 

Jeff - great job deciding to go around (you too Hank!).

 

-Seth

[fantom]

If after that first bounce you decide to stay with it, give the plane a bit more throttle, and let it settle back down when it's ready....or so I'm told

[Seth]

Alright, my three bad landing stories - two out of three occured at night:

 

1.  In Spring 2004 during primary PPL training at PDK in Atlanta.  This was my third "batch" of training when I finally had enough money saved up to finish off my PPL training (started in high school in Maryland at GAI - ran out of cash, again, started up midway through college at LZU in Georgia, ran into an issue with my medical, finished up my senior year of college at PDK in Atlanta).

 

This was a night flight checkride with a differnt instructor than usual on the crosswind runway at PDK (rather than the parallel 20R&L/2R&L).  It was runway 34/16 (4000 x 150), and we were in the pattern for 34 due to gusty winds from the northwest.  I thought everything was going well but I guess due to night flying conditions, wide runway, and gusty winds, I flared early and SLAMMED the 172 into the runway in a pretty flat position.  I recovered, but it was not a good landing at all and the instructor said some not so nice words in my direction.  I knew I was a student pilot, but there is a way to correct and a way to shatter confidence.  That landing messed up my flying for the rest of the evening, and for some reason I never flew well wih that particular instrutor after that (two other flights).  The main instructor I used and a separate thid instructor I flew very well with evidently, but I was always "shaky" around that particular instrutor after slamming the 172 onto the runway that night.  I've been very careful with all my night landings since understanding depth perception just isn't as good, and I've greased quite a bit since, but after slamming that 172 down, I have been very careful with night landings.

 

2.  In 2009 I flew my Uncle and his heavyset friend around Maryland.  It was the first time I had that sort of passenger weight in my 1967 M20F.  Upon landing (target landing - W00 2400 x 40 feet) I either flared late or just had a high sink rate and again SLAMMED the plane into the runway (not at all as hard as the 172 at PDK however).  It did bounce, but I recovered.   I have never landed a Mooney that hard since or before, and felt bad.  I visually checked out the plane and never had any gear issues during annuals after that so yes - they are built strong.  I also made the mental note to carry a tad extra speed when landing heavy (vs solo with less than half tanks).  I sold the airplane in 2011 when I purchased my Missile.

 

3.  In 2012 I picked up my younger brother, his girlfriend, and another friend near Boston to bring them back to Maryland (my younger brother asked me if I could help him with transportation that weekend - how do you say no to your little bro).  We were to pick up/drop off his friend in Sussex NJ enroute both ways.  This may very well be a "I learned about flying from that" story in a few years when I'm ready to add the rest of the details leading up to the event (fatigue, tired, delayed, night flight, get-there-itis, bachelor party in Atlantic City during the weekend between the drop off and pickup, etc . . .). 

 

I had four aboard the Missile and the sun had set about forty minutes ago as we apprached Sussex NJ, KFWN from the east.  We were to land on runway 3, a 3500 x 75 foot runway.  In daylight, I did notice the rolling hills landscape.  The airport is at 420 feet AGL, and to the immediate west of the airport is a ridge at 1600 feet AGL.  To the north is a peak at 1783 AGL, the hill to the south is 1019, and the hill East is 1120 or so.  This would be my third landing here.  I dropped off my younger brother another time to see his friend early in the summer, and landed about an hour before sunset.  The Saturday morning when I picked up his friend I had an Instrument approach to runway 3.  The night of the bad landing, I as stated, was coming in from the east, it was now dark, and though the controller asked what type of appraoch I wanted, I stated I wanted the visual.  It was really dark.  I made left traffic for the airport, and was very worried about the surrounding hills.  I came in high and fast on the final, as I didn't start downhill until later and finally touched down proabaly more than halfway down the runway.  I was about to apply the brakes when I passed stripe for the displaced threshold on the opposite side of the runway.  I know I have read countless stories of trying to go around too late and ending up adding to your speed when crashing off the end of the runway, but I knew that I was just past touchdown speed, going slightly downhill, and the displaced threshold was about 700 or 800 feet from the end of the runway (I had studied the field prior to landing enroute to be sure of the nuances).  I knew I could take off again, however was worried about the obstructions during the late climb out.  I had departed to the South the other two times where you had more space to climb.  Landing north, departing south.  I reacted immeidately since I was thinking go around anyway prior to touchdown, poured on the power, and was terrified that I was going to hit the hill or wires, or road, mountain, something during climbout.  I raised the gear once climbing, and then thank goodness for the 300 HP.  I was climbing with the stall horn chirping and was pushing down on the nose in order to keep the plane flying while trimming.  My right seat passenger said "that's a mountain" which we could just make out the shape of in front of us.  I was now climbing, well, still at a high angle, retracted to half flaps.  After a few moments of terror (which I didn't let my passengers know about) I was high enough to be safe, made the left traffic, made sure I was clear of the 1600 ledge to the west, and set up a larger pattern to make sure I touched down slow and early on the runway.  It was a very good second landing - very smooth.

 

After power down to let of the one passenger, I explained what a go-around was and that the landing just wasn't lining up well and that I was too high and fast and that it is a procedure that we practice often enough.  I have since flown with my little brother and girlfriend and they do have confidence in me.  I did tell my little brother after getting back to Maryland that that was a top four moment of avaition terror for me as I was worried about the climb rate with the mountain/hill right in front of use with the displaced threwshold. 

 

I though about going around the ENTIRE time but was tired, wanted to get down, and get going back to Maryland. I should have gone around as soon as I noticed how high/fast I was, especially knowing that Mooneys float when fast
(despite the four person load - though only about 2.5 hours of gas remained).

 

-  Separate Go Around Story.  This was not a bad landing, but a good choice.  In 2010, with my girlfriend on board at night coming back from Ocean City Maryland to Gaithersburg, MD, my current home base in my 1967 F model.  I was on short final, started the flare (maybe a few feet high), and the winds just started swirling, the landing didn't feel right so I powered up and went around.  Never touched down during the first apprach, and then landed just fine on the second.  She was worried as she had never experience a go-around, so I explained to her that we train for that all the time.  She too felt the final was odd with the winds the way they were and appreciated that I went around.  Always be ready for the go-around.

 

 

Scary Moments:

 

This is already a long post, but here are the 4 scariest moments in order of my flying career - almost all of them were due to get-there-itis in some fashion so I've really tried to work on postoponing flights and revieiwing my go/no go decisions.  I do not go often due to weather or personal feeling, but these following flights are part of what could have been accident chains - Amazing with all the training, the go/no go actual aborts where I did not fly, and the knowing get-there-itis is a big issue for me, I still had these issues occur.  Also, three out of four occured during night flying - fascinating that should a crash have occured, it would have been part of it the contributing factors.  Each time in my mind after and during I was thinking - is this the beginning of an NTSB investigation and let me break this chain.  I can go into more detail on what I did to break the chain in each case, but I'm going to keep everything short for now. 

 

1.  Night flight - over southern VA flying from NC to MD 2008.  I did not have my IFR rating yet and was flying my M20F back to my home base after a day of work.  I was a 4000 feet on a moonless night and flew into a cloud layer that was not supposed to be there according to forecasts.  Know the survival rate and time for a non IFR pilot in IMC (less than four minutes) I smoothly performed a 180 degree turn, popped back out into VFR conditions and called flight service to find out if weather had changed.  I found that a 4000 foot layer had formed.  I made the decision to lower to 3000 and continue my flight.  If I could not get below the clouds by 3000 then to land at the last airport I flew over and fly home in the monring.  I made it home just fine clear of clouds.

 

2.  Day flight.  Buffalo to MD July/August 2009.  Wound up in a scud running siutation when weather was closing in and declared a personal emergeny pulling up into the could to ensure I was not going to hit the side of a mountain.  Popped out about 15 minutes later into clear skies and continued the flight.  Aviate, Navigate, communicate.  I did the first two, not the third, and vowed to finish my IFR training (passed the checkride about two weeks later).

 

3.  Night Flight - Go Around NJ - Summer 2012 - read above.

 

4.  Night Flight.  Texas to MD May 2011 - very delayed on takeoff and had to circumnaviate around a huge nasty convective front that stretched from Texas to the East Coast.  I flew from Texas to North Carolina before traveling north to Maryland.  Had another pilot on board and flew all night (along with a passenger).  Should have just stayed the night and left the next morning.  At points during the flight I was very worried for our safety due to weather.

 

I've learned from each of these experiences. 

 

Don't let get-there-itis get you.

 

-Seth

[Hank]

If after that first bounce you decide to stay with it, give the plane a bit more throttle, and let it settle back down when it's ready....or so I'm told

 

That works very well in a normal bounce or balloon, but not in the nosewheel-first situation I got myself into by not paying attention. Each bounce was higher and harder than the one before, while holding the throttle all the way out. On my second, higher leap into the air [or was it the third? It was dark, I was confused, there were trees about 2000' away from my first touchdown, I didn't know what was happening], I just shoved everything forward and prayed I would miss the trees that I couldn't see.

 

When I did get down, there were no branches or leaves in the gear, and no visible scratches on the belly . . . and now I pay close attention all the way until the prop stops turning, the switches are off and the keys are sitting on top of the panel. It was definitely a learning experience! I'll have to ask my wife if she remembers it and what she thought sitting beside me that night.

 

Thanks, Seth, for your detailed writeup. I would much rather have my learning experiences vicariously, as I don't sweat or get the adrenaline shakes like when I do it myself!

[fantom]

That works very well in a normal bounce or balloon, but not in the nosewheel-first situation I got myself into by not paying attention. Each bounce was higher and harder than the one before, while holding the throttle all the way out.

 

Thanks, Seth, for your detailed writeup. I would much rather have my learning experiences vicariously, as I don't sweat or get the adrenaline shakes like when I do it myself!

 

You done good, Hank!

 

I think if you would have pushed that throttle in a little you might not have stayed on the roller coaster, and I suspect your nose wheel first touch downs were after your first bounce.

[autoalain]

Landing my m20a, the  j bar broke off at the bottom,  at the weld,   landed in a corn field to save the plane,  engine tear down and paint touch up and of course a new prop,  warning to the m20a guys, check  the j bar,  i heard I'm the 5th guy to have this happen.  Mike.

[TWinter]

After many (twenty years) of not flying  and also being a low time pilot, less than 100 hrs. I had just gotten back in the saddle and newly checked off again to get back in the air. I had purchased a Cherokee and was really enjoying my newly regained joy of flying. After about a month of flying I starting to get the "warm fuzzy" feeling back and was glad to be flying again.  I finally had gotten my other half to join me on some local flights around the city. She is NOT a fan of flying, much less a small plane.

 

We are on about her 8th or 9th time up so she is slowly starting to feel just a tad better each time we went flying. She still has an anxiety time limit of about 45 minutes each time we fly. Then I hear the " That was fun, are we heading back yet?". 

 

Well, it's a great day just trolling the city sky and she asks the magic question, heading back yet? I said, Sure lets call it a day.

 

Cutting to the chase...Now as we all know when you have a apprehensive and nervous spouse onboard you are constantly being asked, "what was that noise, is that normal?, or any radio traffic and she says, " Who is that, where is he?..etc.  We all know the distracting questions.

 

I'm on final at my local FBO and a pretty day to fly. There is a slightly stiff crosswind. She is still talking and asking about this or that(she means well and is learning..flying is my idea)..back to the crosswind. I'm just about 20 feet from touchdown with full flaps. Speed is good, I'm dealing well with the crosswind and all of a sudden we hear a very loud "POP" and the plane suddenly balloons up. It scared the crap out of both of us..I looked around to see what happened and finally look down and the flap bar at slammed back down and the flaps had gone back to no flaps. I pulled on the bar and it would not re-catch to lock the flap handle in place. We continued to float down the runway using a no flap landing, very sloppy, but got down safely. I guess if I was thinking clearer I could have held the bar with my hand and landed, but it all happened so fast and at the time she had gone absolutely into tears and fear.

 

I got it parked, hangered and took my better-half home to calm her down. Of course I wanted to go back and see what happened. It ended up the small 1" pin in the locking cog at the base of the flap ratchet bar had worked it's way out and just happen to fully fall out just before touchdown. This caused the flaps to retract and the bar to slam down from full flaps. Man it was sudden and loud!!. The pin was laying under the plastic cover at the base of the flap bar near the ratchet. That was lot's going on in a period of about a minute or so. Got it fixed the next day. The next few landings had a slight pucker factor though and I was ready to grab the handle..LOL

[fantom]

I got it parked, hangered and took my better-half home to calm her down.

 

Have you gotten her back up in the air, and if so, how???

[TWinter]

Have you gotten her back up in the air, and if so, how???

Actually she did much better than I expected. I think it took about a two weeks or so of me heading out to fly and her staying home (they were very nice days for flying), she knew she needed to get over the fear and was good about giving it another try. The first time flying after the incident we only flew about 10-15 minutes around the airport. I was just glad she went back up. I really thought she may never try again. Finally, after a few more times back up she started to get less apprehensive, but we still run into the issue with her 45 minute anxiety limit of flying even still today. I've spent lots of time explaining to her how emergency situations are handled, I show different landmarks when we fly that we could glide to if we had to. Her biggest fear is engine failure. It will take time, but the Cherokee landing was a set-back for sure. I actually think she enjoys the Mooney much better though, maybe I'll get her up to an hour or more   I'm thinking if I take a beach weekend trip this winter and call her telling her I'm sitting on the balcony of a beach-front condo in Florida with a cocktail in my hand she just might try a three or four hour leg. Just maybe....

[Hector]

I finally had gotten my other half to join me on some local flights around the city. She is NOT a fan of flying, much less a small plane.

Dealing with this issue as well. Purchased my Mooney in October and still have not managed to convince my wife to go flying. For her is not an issue with small airplanes. It is anything that flies. Went to Spain on vacation last year and it was hard as hell to get her on that airplane. The anxiety was palpable and it took a lot of reassurance. I keep thinking the fear is more related to a lack of control so I have lately been trying to convince her to take a pinch hitter course. If I can get her with an IP and she learns enough to get the Mooney on the ground she might be alright. Sorry, did not mean to high jack the thread but if anyone has any suggestions I'm all ears!

[Jeff_S]

There have been whole threads on this topic, so I would urge you to use the Search function and sniff them out. I was in this boat as well, but for my wife it was the lure of getting to the beach from Atlanta in 1/3 the time.  That seems to be the general theme for getting any fearful flier into the air...the benefit has to outweigh the fear, and you just have to be patient and find that thing that will provide the benefit.

[Dave Marten]

There have been whole threads on this topic, so I would urge you to use the Search function and sniff them out. I was in this boat as well, but for my wife it was the lure of getting to the beach from Atlanta in 1/3 the time.  That seems to be the general theme for getting any fearful flier into the air...the benefit has to outweigh the fear, and you just have to be patient and find that thing that will provide the benefit.

You hit it Jeff!

Wait for a beautiful day and take her SOMEPLACE. Something fun you can't do w/o your airplane. My wife has no desire to shoot approaches into the home field, but go somewhere with lunch or a destination and she's all in. Make her think the airplane is her own private jet ready to fly her away to some romantic destination (or her favorite family members)

[aviatoreb]

Dealing with this issue as well. Purchased my Mooney in October and still have not managed to convince my wife to go flying. For her is not an issue with small airplanes. It is anything that flies. Went to Spain on vacation last year and it was hard as hell to get her on that airplane. The anxiety was palpable and it took a lot of reassurance. I keep thinking the fear is more related to a lack of control so I have lately been trying to convince her to take a pinch hitter course. If I can get her with an IP and she learns enough to get the Mooney on the ground she might be alright. Sorry, did not mean to high jack the thread but if anyone has any suggestions I'm all ears!

 

My wife started out very suspicious of flying.  Bless her for letting me spend a ton of money on an airplane to pursue what is very much my dream.  But gradually over time she has begun to ask me more and more to take her here and there, to see her mother, to see something far away - she started to appreciate the travel possibilities.  Still under strict orders to choose especially severe clear smooth days...  But she shocked me about 3 months ago when she announced she wanted to take some pinch hitter flying dual instruction hours. She says she enjoys it more now that it all doesn't seem so mysterious.

[carusoam]

Removing the mystery allows you to spend infinitely more.... -a-