Cracked io360 crankcase

[drifter001]

Howdy

 

As you may have guessed from the title, just found out our crankcase is cracked around the stud for cylinder #2 in our ‘65 E. Anyone have any recent experience with this and know the best course of action?

 

thanks in advance

Edited March 7, 2023 by drifter001

[mike20papa]

 

 

Unfortunately the 200HP IO-360 is prone to this.  Requires at a minimum case repair to bring it back to airworthy status.  All those essentials from rod bearing bolts, nuts, rod & main bearings, gasket set (if you can find it) etc. will add up $$.   Depending on what else is found when the case is cracked open and stud assemblies pulled, cam and followers examined (yellow tagged), etc.  Depending on hours on the engine, you are probably going to have to decide on a major OH or a repair similar to a prop strike engine.  Your main concern will be finding a shop willing/capable of doing the work within any reasonable time frame.  Best of luck.

[Bartman]

On disassembly we found a crack and fretting of the case half mating surfaces in 2020.  The supply chain issues were just starting to be a real thing so we quickly got parts including Camshaft and DLC lifters, and got a refurbished case.  

It took 6 months start to finish.

As stated above, best of luck to you, but I recommend you be as proactive and involved in the process as you can.

[Igor_U]

1 hour ago, drifter001 said:

Howdy

 

As you may have guessed from the title, just found out our crankcase is cracked around the stud for cylinder #2 in our ‘65 E. Anyone have any recent experience with this and know the best course of action?

 

thanks in advance

I found that two years ago on my original to my m20F IO360.

It couldn't be welded/repaired so 15 weeks later I received factory rebuilt engine. 

[KSMooniac]

It is a common occurrence on the IO-360's unfortunately.  As mentioned, supply chain is likely still chaotic, so who knows what you'll have to do...if you're lucky, you'll have options.  You might not, so be prepared.

Mine was cracked at that location as well when I overhauled in 2013-2014, but it was repairable at Divco (in Tulsa).  I would call them first and have some dimensions, pics, etc to share with them in case they can determine something without having it in front of them.  If repairable, then you're in luck.  If not, you might have trouble finding a serviceable or new case, but I cannot speak definitively about that in the current environment.  I have gotten a few emails from Divco over the last 6-12 months begging for people to sell them used cases, so I'm guessing things are a mess right now. 

Repair vs. overhaul vs. factory exchange will be the debate in your near future.  You're likely looking at several thousand bucks in removal, disassembly, repair, reassembly (with required replacement items) and re-installation at a minimum.  It may or may not make sense to put that money towards an overhaul if you have 1500+ SMOH.  "While you're in there" can also give you an opportunity to inspect lifters, upgrade to DLC if desired, perhaps do the Centrilube mod on the camshaft, dynamically balance the rotating bits, etc.  (I highly recommend that balancing step to minimize the chance of future cracking!)

[Bartman]

If we had discovered the crack prior to disassembly I may have looked for other options.  We thought my case was repairable, but Divco said it was not.  After that it's hard get Lycoming to accept a box of parts.  When they said they had a serviceable case I jumped on it before they finished the sentence.

[N201MKTurbo]

Send your case to Nickson’s Machine Shop in Santa Maria CA. They do great work. DIVCO sends them cases they can’t repair. I would just skip that step and go right to the pros.

[drifter001]

10 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Send your case to Nickson’s Machine Shop in Santa Maria CA. They do great work. DIVCO sends them cases they can’t repair. I would just skip that step and go right to the pros.

I’ll give them a call today. 

[drifter001]

Added some pictures of the suspected crack. Our engine only has about 650 hours on it

[jetdriven]

I have a 450 hour since new roller case that's been  re-certified, and is ready to go. 

[N201MKTurbo]

40 minutes ago, drifter001 said:

I’ll give them a call today. 

Tell Rudy that Rich From Arizona sent you.

[drifter001]

18 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

I have a 450 hour since new roller case that's been  re-certified, and is ready to go. 

Pm sent

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, jetdriven said:

I have a 450 hour since new roller case that's been  re-certified, and is ready to go. 

Will all of his internals and accessories plug and play with no additional hassle?  One of the case shops might take the old case as a core to offset some of the cost.

In 56 years and 3300hrs of service (several low utilization years), my A1A has had zero cam issues. Nevertheless, If there was a cost effective way to go roller cam, I would.

[M20F]

My case cracked a couple years after a IRAN that was in practical purposes a major (I did not rebuild 2 brand new cylinders with single digit hours, so not a major). 
 
Bought a new case and my AI shoveled all the parts across (we replaced some things but at 400hrs reused a fair bit). Unlike Ross I had some cam wear and I use camguard, fly, and it was in theory one of the “good metal cams”. 
 
Was $4.5K for the case and I want to say $8-10k on the rest.  This though is local, old school AI, long time customer pricing.  I think he tore it down and put it back together in 3 days (minus waiting on parts).   
 
The one thing that got us and we only figured out by accident after weeks of troubleshooting is there needs to be a plug inside the case (Lycoming says loctite + bolt) which is a didn’t have because it was a HIO and we were told it was IO case.  Caused it to be fixed pitch once we fixed if thought all was good and prop control went back to working.  

[BRBENNETT]

I had this happen to my engine back in 2015.  I did. complete overhaul and my shop found reconditioned case halves.  Consider your self lucky you found this!  I used  Triad Aviation / Burlington, NC airport.  They are a certified r/b shop for Lycoming and have a prop shop, H&H as well.  http://www.hhtriad.com/hhpropeller

 

[N201MKTurbo]

I have had two cracked cases in 39 years of Mooney ownership (can anybody beat that). 
 

Bad things sometimes happen to good people. The first one cost about $4000 to fix. The second one I couldn’t find a case anywhere. It was a narrow deck engine. So I found an insurance company that was selling a rebuilt engine that was on an engine stand in a hangar that got flooded. They said the engine was never in the water. It was $9000. I sold the core to a home builder for $4000. The local engine shop charged me $700 to take it apart inspect it and put it back together again. That was the good old boy price BTW. That engine is still in N6319Q AFAIK.

[glbtrottr]

I have had two cracked cases in 39 years of Mooney ownership (can anybody beat that). 

I Can!! I Can!!!

I remember when I first bought N24JJ out of San Diego years ago (a 262/252 conversion), Crown Air found a cracked case. Frack.

I sent the engine for overhaul to a “reputable” shop then in Van Nuys and since moved. They had sent the case out to Divco for repair.

The case came back, the engine was assembled, and the Mooney Factory ended up reinstalling that engine.

As I was getting ready to fly away, our beloved Stacey Ellis and Michael Knese discovered the same crack…Divco never repaired it, and the overhaul shop never picked up on it Can you imagine?

Soooooo…the overhauler had to make it right by sourcing a new case. He wasn’t happy.


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[MooneyMayhem]

Is it common for the IO-360s to crack just at the #2 cylinder.. or are all the cylinder stud locations prone?

[carusoam]

2 hours ago, MooneyMayhem said:

Is it common for the IO-360s to crack just at the #2 cylinder.. or are all the cylinder stud locations prone?

Welcome aboard MM!

1) It is not super common to get a case crack…. Not everyone is going to get this special opportunity.

2) Cylinder studs are a high stress location for an aluminum case casting.

3) The #2 location seems to be unique that it occurs there the most, if and when it occurs…  kind of look there first when suspecting a case crack…

4) Often people find this when the other half dozen normal oil leak places have been checked and fixed…

5) The only other more challenging drip comes from the case halves seal… a fine silk thread that goes all around between the two parts of the case….

6) There has been some success stories in finding and sealing some of these issues… but not a lot…

7) Around here… there is sooooo much history of everything good and bad that has ever happened… it is pretty easy to find what you are looking for… and possible next steps… and alternatives.

8) Next really good question…  if this happens all the time, is there a solution to the problem to look for when buying a new or different Lycoming case…

Getting the newer case proposed by Byron above would allow the user to get roller followers for the cam shaft… with the very recent case design…

Best regards,

-a-

[bhtitle]

I got super lucky - mine is somehow not a crack but apparently a casting blemish.  Sure looked bad before cleaning it up and using dye penetrant but it clearly doesn't go below the surface.  Is this evidence of a prior repair?  It's in exactly the same spot as everyone above.