Avionics Upgrade for M20C

[64U]

Hello fellow Mooney owners, 

this is my first post (and also my first Mooney). Thinking about how to economically upgrade my M20C. 

Here is what she has: 

• NO ADS-B 
• NO GPS 
• All steam gauges 
• Narco 122 
• Older Narco AT50 Transponder

Obviously I would need to equip with ADS-B out anyways, so that would be a MUST

WANT:

• IFR light panel (Source of backup electronic attitude) 
• some GPS 
• HSI

Thoughts: 

1.) If I want to keep her mostly VFR I could install the uavionix Tailbeacon X 

https://uavionix.com/products/tailbeaconx/ with an AV-30. That would also comply with all the ADS-B out requirements and give me a backup attitude (but not GPS) 

Cost (~4500 + install)

2.) Upgrade to GPS (Garmin GPS 175 or GNX 375 (which includes ADS-B in and out), but then I would also need an HSI to make use of it for IFR. I know Aspen currently sells the 1000 Max for about 4k for their sun and fun special. This would bring this solution to about 12k USD + install, but would give me ADS-B in, out, new transponder and IFR GPS. 

3.) Open for any other thoughts..

Will upload pictures here shortly. 

Thank you!

 

[hammdo]

On the cheaper side for HSI, G5. I had ADSB so went with GNC 355

#2 seems like a good start.

I have this panel:

-Don 

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, 64U said:

Hello fellow Mooney owners, 

this is my first post (and also my first Mooney). Thinking about how to economically upgrade my M20C. 

Welcome to MooneySpace!  This is a topic that gets discussed frequently, and there are many choices available.  You came to the right place.

[McMooney]

cheapest to get all you want,

gnx-375 + 2x g5.

[Utah20Gflyer]

Since you want both a modern GPS and ADSB you should strongly consider the Garmin 375.  Add a G5 or GI 275 HSI and you have the basics for IFR.

I had ADSB when I bought my plane so I went with a 355 and a GI 275 HSI.   I actually just finished my phase 2 upgrades where I added the second GI 275 AI, a Garmin 255a nav/com, went from a Garmin 320 to a 327 transponder and upgraded the JPI EDM 800 to a 830.  Including the CIES fuel sender and the new digital fuel gauge I am at about 35k for the panel.  The only thing I’m missing is an autopilot now.  That’s phase 3.

[Ragsf15e]

Yeah, option 2 with 2xg5s is likely one of your best options.  

[jamesm]

I have been working on my instrument rating  and  have been using  PMA8000BT (Audio panel) GNC255(NAV/COM) GNC355 (GPS/COM) and 2 G5's and GFC500 AP works ok. It took me several years of upgrades and saving  to get here.  I would like bigger screen (my old eyes suck) but really can't justify it.

James '67C

 

[Skates97]

43 minutes ago, jamesm said:

I have been working on my instrument rating  and  have been using  PMA8000BT (Audio panel) GNC255(NAV/COM) GNC355 (GPS/COM) and 2 G5's and GFC500 AP works ok. It took me several years of upgrades and saving  to get here.  I would like bigger screen (my old eyes suck) but really can't justify it.

James '67C

 

I feel your pain, I still have better than 20/20 distance vision but I couldn't beat father time for near vision and by my mid 40's was wearing readers. I had a set of lenses made for my sunglasses with readers in them and have a pair of clear plain glasses that have readers in them. The break where the readers start is right at the top of my panel so everything outside and inside is in focus.

The resolution on the GNC355 is very good and with my glasses it is easy to read. Without them not so much.

[Ragsf15e]

7 hours ago, 64U said:

Hello fellow Mooney owners, 

this is my first post (and also my first Mooney). Thinking about how to economically upgrade my M20C. 

Here is what she has: 

• NO ADS-B 
• NO GPS 
• All steam gauges 
• Narco 122 
• Older Narco AT50 Transponder

Obviously I would need to equip with ADS-B out anyways, so that would be a MUST

WANT:

• IFR light panel (Source of backup electronic attitude) 
• some GPS 
• HSI

Thoughts: 

1.) If I want to keep her mostly VFR I could install the uavionix Tailbeacon X 

https://uavionix.com/products/tailbeaconx/ with an AV-30. That would also comply with all the ADS-B out requirements and give me a backup attitude (but not GPS) 

Cost (~4500 + install)

2.) Upgrade to GPS (Garmin GPS 175 or GNX 375 (which includes ADS-B in and out), but then I would also need an HSI to make use of it for IFR. I know Aspen currently sells the 1000 Max for about 4k for their sun and fun special. This would bring this solution to about 12k USD + install, but would give me ADS-B in, out, new transponder and IFR GPS. 

3.) Open for any other thoughts..

Will upload pictures here shortly. 

Thank you!

 

If you do the -375 with dual G5s, you’re really getting 2 new digital ADIs with their own batteries, waas gps and adsb in/out.  Tough to beat.  With an aspen, you’ll need to keep your legacy adi (depending on the setup you go with).

[64U]

Thanks for everyones input so far! 

It seems that the GNX 375 + 1 (or 2) G5s or G275 would be the most cost effective solution to achieve that. Does anyone have an inside how much the install would run for the 375 and one G5? 

 

[Ragsf15e]

12 minutes ago, 64U said:

Thanks for everyones input so far! 

It seems that the GNX 375 + 1 (or 2) G5s or G275 would be the most cost effective solution to achieve that. Does anyone have an inside how much the install would run for the 375 and one G5? 

 

Cost effective and airplane don’t really belong in the same sentence, so I won’t hazard a guess, but…

you’ll need a gps antenna added and a magnometer in the wing or tail.  Possibly a temp probe and wiring.  Those things are in addition to actually connecting the g5 or -375 into your gps.  My g5s were about $11k installed.  Ok, I’ll hazard a guess for you, but it’s total spitball… $20k for 1 g5 and-375, $25k for two g5s and-375.  That’s likely plus/minus $5k.  Well actually it likely won’t be less.

[0TreeLemur]

What about an Aspen primary flight display and Avidyne GPS?   Very capable gear.  Is Garmin that special? 

[64U]

I was thinking about Aspen because they have their Sun-and-Fun special where I could get a reman unit for 4k which would be cheaper than 2 G5s or 2 G275s.

I will talk to a few avionics shops to get some quotes. The other alternative would be to just leave the plane VFR for now and add ADS-B via uavionix tailbeacon and hope the transponder lasts a little bit longer..

 

[47U]

On 3/3/2023 at 11:53 AM, 64U said:

3.) Open for any other thoughts..

Depending on what year your Mooney is, the Aspen might require a new panel to be cut.  Even so, the Aspen is a great choice.

You didn’t mention your comm situation… and only the Nav 122 for VOR/LOC/GS.  If you’re also in need of a comm upgrade, if you have a Mark 12 or (cough) Comm 120, you might consider a Trig nav/comm and you can ditch the 122 at the same time.  The Trig is only 1.3” high, same height as the SL30 (which are also getting pretty old).

Flying IFR requires confidence in your avionics.  Dump as much of the old stuff as you can.   

[64U]

Here is finally a picture of my current panel. As suggested, I think I will go with a GNX375 + either an Aspen or a G5. Does anyone know how easy it is to install a "straight" panel? 

[carusoam]

Hey 64U!

Welcome aboard!  (Slightly late… )

1) There are some premanufactured panels that are an easy way to go…. Bare aluminum, needing some work…

2) The bend in the panel… some instruments are designed to work with the 8° offset… make sure you are familiar with their requirements…

3) By the time you get to replacing the whole panel… project costs start to escalate…

4) Start planning today…

5) An aspen probably needs a flat panel to begin with…. And, over/under set of G5s would probably bump into each other at the bend…

6) Building the panel is the inexpensive part… dismounting and remounting all the instruments is the expensive part… lots of wiring everywhere…

7) There are also pre-flown avionics that are worth considering… find Alan if interested…

The M20C makes a great first Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

[MIm20c]

I would absolutely put a new left panel in to modernize the layout. Normally Garmin is the obvious choice. However, I really do like my Aspen display almost as much as our big screen unit. It’s a joy to fly behind and is very helpful for instrument training/flight.  The pricing on the Aspen is also very aggressive for the refurb units. The pfd/mfd combo (2000 system) with the old style battery at $5k is a surprisingly good deal.  Long term support etc will favor the Garmin for sure. 

[ArtVandelay]

If you can foresee wanting a autopilot, I would go with Garmin.

[Utah20Gflyer]

On 4/6/2023 at 9:19 AM, MIm20c said:

I would absolutely put a new left panel in to modernize the layout. Normally Garmin is the obvious choice. However, I really do like my Aspen display almost as much as our big screen unit. It’s a joy to fly behind and is very helpful for instrument training/flight.  The pricing on the Aspen is also very aggressive for the refurb units. The pfd/mfd combo (2000 system) with the old style battery at $5k is a surprisingly good deal.  Long term support etc will favor the Garmin for sure. 

I’d strongly agree with converting the left side panel to standard configuration as a first step.  The panel is the foundation that you will be building everything else on.   The whole panel gets taken out when they do the upgrades you are looking at anyway so it’s more efficient to do it at the same time.   

[Andy95W]

On 4/5/2023 at 1:34 PM, 64U said:

Does anyone know how easy it is to install a "straight" panel? 

 

It is fairly easy, but it depends entirely on the shop you use.  If they’ve done one before, they’ll knock it out quickly- if they haven’t, it will take some time researching the tricks to make it work well.  LASAR used to sell a kit to do it.  They can probably forward the instructions to your shop.