Would you trade your Mooney for a Cirrus Poll

[201er]

Hypothetically, would you trade your Mooney for a Cirrus? Let's say you can have a direct swap plane for plane. You can't sell it or if you do, you get whatever your Mooney is worth for it anyway. No gain or loss on the asset value or monthly payment. However, you have to take on whatever maintenance, operation, insurance costs come with it. You have to fly with a parachute and your wheels always hanging out, and you get shunned off this forum.

 

Say something like this 2002 SR22. Doesn't have to be exactly this one but thereabouts.

https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/201754585/2002-cirrus-sr22-piston-single-aircraft

N854CD is a well cared for 2002 SR22 equipped with many desirable upgrades!  Featuring Aspen PFD, Flight stream 210, Dual WAAS 430s, DFC90, ADSl-B I/O, and much more!      FREE transition training (Cirrus Embark) included with the purchase of your Cirrus from Aerista.

2002 SR22   1,825 hours TTSN (Hobbs)  Basic Empty Weight = 2,311 pounds

 

 

 

What about, would you trade your existing Mooney for a faster/newer Mooney but also being on the hook for the additional operating costs and gaining no value on the asset?

Edited March 30, 2021 by 201er

[201er]

I say no. Definitely not if the operating costs are substantially higher. If the operating costs were the same, I'd have to think about it. However, I can't say that a Cirrus appeals to me overall. The Mooney design is one of the things that got me into aviation. I would definitely like a faster Mooney than a Cirrus. But, again I'm not sure I'd want to take on the higher operating costs of a 2002 Mooney Bravo either.

[JimB]

I said no mostly because of this: CONTINENTAL Engine 1 Time 1,825 Engine Time Between Overhaul 2,000 Engine Notes TCM IO-550-N, 310 HP  1,825 hours TTSN (Hobbs)

More gas, more maintenance for not enough performance gain. I like my F. It does what I need. 

[MooneyMitch]

Come on, man!! You trying to start a fight on MS?    

It’s kinda like riding a Moped...... they’re fun to ride, but you wouldn’t want your friends to see on/in one !!! 

[MooneyMitch]

I just got the anti-Cirrus vaccine...... didn’t hurt a bit, and no reactions encountered!!

[MooneyMitch]

..... and what about that anemic whiny propeller sound?  Man, that is completely irritating!!

Yuck!! 

[Tim Jodice]

12 minutes ago, JimB said:

I said no mostly because of this: CONTINENTAL Engine 1 Time 1,825 Engine Time Between Overhaul 2,000 Engine Notes TCM IO-550-N, 310 HP  1,825 hours TTSN (Hobbs)

More gas, more maintenance for not enough performance gain. I like my F. It does what I need. 

I second this. To compare a 310Hp airplane to a 200HP one is not fair. The 200HP is no doubt going to be less to run, less to insure and likely lest to buy.

When I was shopping for airplanes and ended up buying the J I have now an SR20 was the only other airplane on my list that does about 150 kts with a 4 cylinder Lycoming.

Based on my homework for the way I fly the operating costs are close. the landing gear maintenance gear comes close to the chute repack cost.

The service center I use for my avionics is a Cirrus service center and the mechanic I spoke to said in his opinion a Ovation and a SR22 are close in maintenance they both have their unique needs. Same for a SR20 and a M20J.

My decision ended up being almost completely emotional. Like many I don't like the side yoke or the handling of the Cirrus airplanes. I like the handling, retractable gear and  legacy aluminum aircraft. Mooney obviously checked all of those boxes.

Mooney and Beechcraft are my favorite. 

I considered the Cirrus because it was a airplane the fit my business needs. 

In the end I like what I have if my need changed so much the J couldn't do it I think I would buy a Baron because the only think a Mooney doesn't have is a good useful load and a Baron has a great useful load. 

I think it is great to have 1st world problems like having a hard time picking the model of an aircraft that you want.

Lastly if a Cirrus makes you happy I think you should buy one. I think they are good aircraft and the company is the best by far. 

 

[Tim Jodice]

Just now, MooneyMitch said:

..... and what about that anemic whiny propeller sound?  Man, that is completely irritating!!

Yuck!! 

What noise is that?

[KLRDMD]

12 minutes ago, Tim Jodice said:

When I was shopping for airplanes and ended up buying the J I have now an SR20 was the only other airplane on my list that does about 150 kts with a 4 cylinder Lycoming.

While it is true the older Cirrus SR-20s had an IO-360 engine, they are six cylinder Continentals, not four cylinder Lycomings.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, 201er said:

Hypothetically, would you trade your Mooney for a Cirrus? Let's say you can have a direct swap plane for plane. You can't sell it or if you do, you get whatever your Mooney is worth for it anyway. No gain or loss on the asset value.

You took away my motivation right there! I'd only swap my C model for a Cirrus so that I could sell it and buy a nicer, newer, faster Mooney!!

1 hour ago, 201er said:

What about, would you trade your existing Mooney for a faster/newer Mooney but also being on the hook for the additional operating costs and gaining no value on the asset?

Sure would. Looked into this once, but took too long finding what I wanted and missed the opportunity.

[rbridges]

Not that I can't afford it, but I don't want the maintenance costs that goes with newer, faster and bigger planes.  I'm sure I speak for others on this forum who I know could fly around in nicer planes if they wished.  Would I trade planes if ownership costs were the same?  Absolutely!

[Tim Jodice]

1 hour ago, KLRDMD said:

While it is true the older Cirrus SR-20s had an IO-360 engine, they are six cylinder Continentals, not four cylinder Lycomings.

Correct. the went to IO-390s in 2016. I was looking at a new one. 

[MooneyMitch]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

I'd only swap my C model for a Cirrus so that I could sell it and buy a nicer, newer, faster

Ditto brudah!! Exactly what I was thinking. 

[gsxrpilot]

No, I would not trade my Mooney for a Cirrus.

Nor would I trade my Mooney for a newer Mooney. The only airplane I'd trade mine for, would be a brand new M20K 252 Encore. And since those don't exist, I'll have to just keep doing what I'm doing and make one.

[thinwing]

2 hours ago, MooneyMitch said:

Come on, man!! You trying to start a fight on MS?    

It’s kinda like riding a Moped...... they’re fun to ride, but you wouldn’t want your friends to see on/in one !!! 

hey I love my moped!..I also have a vespa scooter

[thinwing]

I have more fun riding the Vespa than putting on all the leather crap and horsing the 700 lb Harley arround

[Niko182]

The Cirrus doesn't really appeal to me as an aircraft. It just doesn't look cool IMO. Even the TTX is a really cool looking airplane, so it isn't the fixed gear. As Far as switching to a new Ovation Ultra, 2 doors and an NXI sound nice on paper, but the significantly reduced useful load would make me hesitant. I'd rather take all that extra cash and make the Eagle out of this world.

[Tim Jodice]

Seeing this is a trade your Mooney for a Cirrus thread. I should probably elaborate why I went from a 2019 SR20 to a 1985 Mooney.

A Cirrus like anything depreciates a lot when you buy it new. In airplanes the Avionics are what make it less desirable as calander time goes on regardless of airframe time or engine time especially because the systems today are integrated in to the airframe so it is very hard to upgrade unless it is a software upgrade or minor hardware change.

When the average person buys a new airplane they usually don't fly it a lot 50-150 hours with some outliers in the 2-300 hours a year so it depreciates much faster because of calender time then the engine time and airframe time combined. Because of this it rarely ever truly saves you money or at minimum breaks even while having the privilege to own a brand new airplane.

Now for my use/need. I fly from Manchester NH to Nantucket MA Monday-Friday and in the peak (June-August) I might do it midday for parts. I put 537 hours on my Mooney from February of 2020-Febuary of 2021.

Cliff Allen the Cirrus sale representative for my area showed me how it would work because of how much I fly. He used verifiable outside sources in addition to his own so I believe what he showed me and wasn't some wet dream of a business plan.

He said asuming we don't repeat 2008 your use you will out run depreciation. 

Take any airplane and an owner who is honest with them self and builds in engine and prop reserves and the inevitable panel upgrade. now fly it 500+ a year The picture is my M20Js operating expense for 2020. the other is my scratch pad of maintenance throughout the year. I used a Cirrus spead sheet that Cliff gave me hence the parachute repack line.

He said if I call him to trade in a 2-3 year old mid time engine airplane he would be able to sell it it a flight school immediately. 

For the time I own it everything is written with a pen. scheduled maintenance is known if if it is not scheduled maintenance it is a warranty repair. engine, prop reserve? nope. Panel upgrade? never. chute repack? not while I own it. 

All of that stuff I would never pay for is a wash with depreciation. 

Doing the numbers for me, for all of that to work it needs to be a new under warranty airplane. 

All good right? why didn't I go that way? like I said earlier I just didn't warm up to the airplane and I love Mooneys. I went the much less to buy much more to operate route. 

Cirrus is proof that there is a market for 200HP (215) new traveling airplanes.

Speaking of wet dreams, I want a Long body IO-390 with a 3050 GW

[RobertGary1]

I wouldn’t want to pay the taxes on the swap. 

[NJMac]

19 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

I wouldn’t want to pay the taxes on the swap. 

I submitted a tax exempt form with my offer, now contract.  In Ohio, I had success with this tax loophole when I bought my E and am trying again on my new to me 22. 

To be clear, I don't see the 22 as sexy and I'll probably miss the Mooney.  Im hoping the 22 is kinda like an AMG 63 SUV.  Big engine at least makes it tolerable to run the family around in. 

Edited March 30, 2021 by NJMac

[DonMuncy]

Much like GSXRpilot, I would trade my 231 for an Encore, but not much else.

[1964-M20E]

nah it has Garmin radios in it.  

[Ragsf15e]

The guy who sold my hangar to me sold his J and bought an SR22T.  He wanted fiki, he’s a csip, and he can afford it.  Funny thing was, he didn’t measure (and he’s an engineer).  My hangar is very nice but only has 38’ doors and the Cirrus wouldn’t fit!  So now I own a nice hangar and I wouldn’t trade my Mooney!  He now owns one of those big apartment/hangars on the field, so no worries.

[MooneyMitch]

28 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Funny thing was, he didn’t measure (and he’s an engineer).

And the jokes about electrians, plumbers, etc......... lights at home don’t work, faucets leak........ 

[rbridges]

18 minutes ago, MooneyMitch said:

And the jokes about electrians, plumbers, etc......... lights at home don’t work, faucets leak........ 

Haha. My dad painted aircraft at the local air for the local air force base, and his car's paint looked like a calico.