Garmin dual G5 or?

[sdflysurf]

I have a vacuum Attitude Indicator currently as well as a Garmin GNS-430 (non-waas) with a Century HSI slaved to it.

I thought I might be able to swap my Attitude AND HSI with the AV-30C (dual) but looks like the AV-30C doesn't do HSI.

So: should I get (2) G5? 

-Do I need to get the GAD29B?

-Would I be able to cut the wires going to my century HSI that are slaved off the Garmin GNS-430 and use some of those for the G5 units or do I have to get back into the pinout/cabletray of the Garmin GNS-430 (adds extra $$ and time obviously so that's why I'm asking).

-Also - I have a Brittain PC system so I am keeping my Vac for that, is there a decent autopilot out there (New or Used) that I can interface with the PC system or will I end up ripping that out.

THANKS!

[PeteMc]

I would take a serious look at the GI275.  The display may not be as big as the G5, but it offers a whole lot more. 

Dual ADAHRS versions of the 275 would allow you to remove your vacuum system (confirm w/ your shop) and give you redundancy.

[ArtVandelay]

I would take a serious look at the GI275.  The display may not be as big as the G5, but it offers a whole lot more. 
Dual ADAHRS versions of the 275 would allow you to remove your vacuum system (confirm w/ your shop) and give you redundancy.

I agree if the GFC 500 is not in OP’s future.

[OR75]

17 minutes ago, PeteMc said:

I would take a serious look at the GI275.  The display may not be as big as the G5, but it offers a whole lot more. 

Dual ADAHRS versions of the 275 would allow you to remove your vacuum system (confirm w/ your shop) and give you redundancy.

where can you see that two GI275 are needed to remove vacuum system ?

say you have an electric TC , HSI (like a G5) and a GI275 ?  and nothing needs the vacuum 

 

[David Lloyd]

Right now Garmin has a dual 275 bundle, special pricing that brings it to about $2k more than the dual G5 price.  Well depending on exactly what you need.  I'm looking at the autopilot (Stec 60-2). The 275s will also allow me to display info from a KX-165 and delete an indicator (eBay sale) and also connect to the GTX375.  G5 won't do all that.  No matter what, Garmin has their pricing scientifically honed to inflict almost unbearable pain, yet still be done.  Bundle price runs to June 18.  Dual GI 275 Kit Bundle | Promotions | Garmin

[PeteMc]

@OR75  True there are a number of combos out there that would allow you to remove the vacuum system.  Just thinking that redundant 275 would be nice in IMC if the one you were using as the AI/FD failed.  (If it's in the budget...)

[RobertGary1]

That was my plan. Then I saw the G-5 and GI-275 side by side. There is no comparison. Its like seeing an old Tandy Computer next to an ultra HD TV.

 

Also the G-5 took more labor as the instruments are a bit close in Mooneys and a G-5 in the attitude position and DQ position will interfere. The GI-275 was designed as a certified instrument so it matches the form factor of standard instruments.

 

-Robert

Edited March 15, 2021 by RobertGary1

[Ragsf15e]

Ive got two G5s and they’re awesome!  If the -275 was out when I got the G5s, I would’ve done that.  The fit into your original instrument holes is really nice.  

[AerostarDriver]

I just had the pleasure of installing both dual G5s a GI-275 and an AV-20S. Some notes:

• Whatever you save on the dual G5 vs dual GI-275s, you will spend on the install, maybe not a 1 to 1 exchange but it is pretty close. 
• The GFC500 is now supported on the GI-275
• The AV-20/AV-30 ADHRS solution is pretty crappy
• Canbus(G5) wire is ~6 dollars a foot Vs ethernet(GI-275) for the HSDB is ~4 dollars a foot, you need a lot more canbus wire for the G5 as the GMU11 needs canbus run to it. The GI-275 connects to the GMU11 via RS-232 and just needs Mil-C-27500 Twisted pair.
• You only need the GAD29B if you intend to use the G5 for your primary navigation indicator
• The GI-275 has a larger list of supported Nav radio sources and supports analog sources which the GAD29B does not.
• You will absolutely have to re-pin your GNS-430 tray.
• In my configuration, I struggled to get my GMU11 to pass an interference test with whelen Orion 650 strobes.

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by AerostarDriver

[sdflysurf]

Thanks all for the replies - I'm getting a good deal on a used pair of G5s - so it is a BIG jump to the Garmin 275s.  But those look epic.  Currently I use my IPAD with foreflight and I love it - We have the stratus ESG 3i so I get synthetic view on my IPAD on my yoke so at that point I just need the HSI and AI to do their job.

Would that be the additional features that the 275 would give over the G5?  Or is there something Foreflight + G5 wouldn't give me?

My avionics guy said we can cut the wires to the Century HSI and they are already set for the G5s....but we need to run the magnetometer to the tail (airplane already open for annual).

Am I understanding right that you are saying I won't be able to link an autopilot to the Garmin dual G5 with GNS 430?

ALSO - I would like to flushmount these dual G5s together so looking for the correct parts and install instructions.

Regarding Autopilots - Since I already have the PC leveler from brittain installed I'm leaving my vacuum installed - is there an autopilot that can easily be added to work with what is already in the wings and tail?

 

[carusoam]

Read up on the AV30... 

The search function can be magical... it’s not ready for prime time yet.

 

G5 vs GI275...

one requires another box to drive the AP...

The 275 has a ton of additional info...

If you just want the G5 to behave like a really good AI and HSI combo... the pre-flown ones sound like a great deal...

Make sure you have the box to go with the AP...

PP fuzzy memory only, things that can be read around here...

Best regards,

-a-

[Ragsf15e]

The G5s are plenty nice if that’s what you choose based on getting a good deal.  I like mine.  They can definitely connect to a 430w and autopilot as mine do.  They can only provide heading to a non Garmin autopilot though, not attitude.  That’s fine for stec, but not good for kfc/kap.  The -275 works with more legacy autopilots.  They both work with the gfc500 which is likely what you want if you currently don’t have any autopilot.

Be sure you have room to flush mount.  I wanted to as well but my avionics shop couldn’t make it work so they stick out.  It’s not terrible.  I’d rather have them flush though.

Honestly, dual G5s is a relatively solid solution that should work for a long time.  Don’t expect them to add a bunch of new features, but it’s pretty good.

[sdflysurf]

6 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Read up on the AV30... 

The search function can be magical... it’s not ready for prime time yet.

 

G5 vs GI275...

one requires another box to drive the AP...

The 275 has a ton of additional info...

If you just want the G5 to be have like a really good AI and HSI combo... the pre-flown ones sound like a great deal...

Make sure you have the box to go with the AP...

PP fuzzy memory only, things that can be read around here...

Best regards,

-a-

I think you got it right fuzzy memory and all

Looking at this link:

https://generalaviationnews.com/2017/12/02/additional-capabilities-for-g5-certified/

the box I need to go with the 3rd party Autopilots is the GAD29B so I'll keep that in the install.

So I guess all I need now is the flush mount kit and any other tips.  The avionics guy has the wire and has done the magnetometer install, he said the wires will work from the existing electric Century HSI, I already have the vacuum tubing out because I was going to fix up the panel.  I don't really need to see synthetic vision or traffic on my center stack (GNS430) or my AI/HSI since I have the IPAD right there.  Anything else I am missing?

[carusoam]

For a flush mount kit around here...

@Aerodon had built some... Don has panel building skills...

There were a bunch of pics that were done early in the G5 era, I believe...

Oddly, my BK AI and HSI... I thought were flush mounted... really are surface mounted and stand-off the panel a bit... 

Best regards,

-a-

[sdflysurf]

Just now, carusoam said:

For a flush mount kit around here...

@Aerodon had built some... Don has panel building skills...

There were a bunch of pics that were done early in the G5 era, I believe...

Best regards,

-a-

Thanks! I just emailed Don.  I will post my pics when done.  I know that I am bringing a 1968 plane into the late 90s/early 2000s here but it's exciting to me!

[AerostarDriver]

1 hour ago, sdflysurf said:

I think you got it right fuzzy memory and all

Looking at this link:

https://generalaviationnews.com/2017/12/02/additional-capabilities-for-g5-certified/

the box I need to go with the 3rd party Autopilots is the GAD29B so I'll keep that in the install.

So I guess all I need now is the flush mount kit and any other tips.  The avionics guy has the wire and has done the magnetometer install, he said the wires will work from the existing electric Century HSI, I already have the vacuum tubing out because I was going to fix up the panel.  I don't really need to see synthetic vision or traffic on my center stack (GNS430) or my AI/HSI since I have the IPAD right there.  Anything else I am missing?

Regardless of if you want you use an autopilot or not you need the GAD29B as it is your I/O hub, so your nav radios and GPS inputs plug in to it with a MAPMX line going to the G5 units themselves. the GAD29B also acts as your autopilot hub if you have a supported autopilot. You don't need the GAD29B if you just want a slaved DG.

Going flush mount was way more work then I was ready for in my panel. I also have the post 68 bezel that I intended to keep intact.

[RobertGary1]

If you use used G5’s what do you have to do to have Garmin reassign the stc? Do you know what Garmin charges for the reassignment?

[Ragsf15e]

43 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

If you use used G5’s what do you have to do to have Garmin reassign the stc? Do you know what Garmin charges for the reassignment?

Good question as I have heard that was expensive...

[OR75]

1 hour ago, Ragsf15e said:

Good question as I have heard that was expensive...

The cost to reassign the STC is roughly the difference in price between a certified and a non certified G5 

[sdflysurf]

3 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

If you use used G5’s what do you have to do to have Garmin reassign the stc? Do you know what Garmin charges for the reassignment?

Sorry, I'm not following you - the STC follows the individual aircraft?  Or isn't the STC for their product under an AML applicable across all of the airplane types in listed in the STC?  Please tell me more about this reassignment fee?  Is it required?

[JimB]

5 hours ago, sdflysurf said:

Sorry, I'm not following you - the STC follows the individual aircraft?  Or isn't the STC for their product under an AML applicable across all of the airplane types in listed in the STC?  Please tell me more about this reassignment fee?  Is it required?

Technically you have to have permission from the STC holder to use the STC. When the units are installed your installer has to sign off a major alteration (337) on the aircraft using the STC data. The AML is just the list of approved aircraft. The STC is the data to install it and Garmin holds the rights to the STC. A lot of avionics get installed without this permission being granted. I'm not sure what happens if you have to send a unit back to Garmin for exchange or repairs...

Edited March 16, 2021 by JimB

[gsxrpilot]

46 minutes ago, JimB said:

Technically you have to have permission from the STC holder to use the STC. When the units are installed your installer has to sign off a major alteration (337) on the aircraft using the STC data. The AML is just the list of approved aircraft. The STC is the data to install it and Garmin holds the rights to the STC. A lot of avionics get installed without this permission being granted. I'm not sure what happens if you have to send a unit back to Garmin for exchange or repairs...

Some manufacturers control the STC. Garmin doesn't appear to do so. The signed and dated STC can be freely downloaded from their website and then you just fill in your airplane N number and Serial number. Other's like Genesys don't provide a signed copy of the STC to you without you paying for it.

[RobertGary1]

Just now, gsxrpilot said:

Some manufacturers control the STC. Garmin doesn't appear to do so. The signed and dated STC can be freely downloaded from their website and then you just fill in your airplane N number and Serial number. Other's like Genesys don't provide a signed copy of the STC to you without you paying for it.

But if you enter a Garmin serial number that is already issued an stc what does it say?

[gsxrpilot]

20 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

But if you enter a Garmin serial number that is already issued an stc what does it say?

Actually, the N number and serial number of the airplane go on the AFMS. It can be downloaded from the Garmin website and it's already signed.

The STC paper can also be downloaded and doesn't need any signature. 

 

[AerostarDriver]

Even though the Garmin G5 STC is downloadable you still need a permission letter. The nice thing is the STC covers both units so in my case I bought a used HSI and a new ADI, the new unit came with the permission letter to cover both. If you go though an installer they may comp the fee to do the install.