Mooney hitting power lines in TN

[daytonabch04]

29 minutes ago, Nukemzzz said:

You make a good point here.  The pilot from the original post was going to this airport for the cheap gas.  The reporting never clarifies if he was able to get his gas after the incident.  lol

The picture in the article does look like he made it to the fuel pumps...but did he get fuel is the real question...

[flyboy0681]

On 2/4/2021 at 11:13 AM, MooneyMitch said:

My first thought................the pilot was below the glideslope.  What is it we say..................."red, you're dead".  Most fortunate outcome.

Red over white, just right

Red over red, you're dead

[81X]

On 2/4/2021 at 11:13 AM, MooneyMitch said:

My first thought................the pilot was below the glideslope.  What is it we say..................."red, you're dead".  Most fortunate outcome.

White over white, high as a kite; red over red, you’re dead!  

[Davidv]

As a personal rule, I won't fly any visual approach at night unless it's in a towered well lit city area.

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, Davidv said:

As a personal rule, I won't fly any visual approach at night unless it's in a towered well lit city area.

And you're in Florida where the world is flat

[flyboy0681]

Just now, RobertGary1 said:

And you're in Florida where the world is flat

It may be flat but at least it's warm.

[RobertGary1]

Just now, flyboy0681 said:

It may be flat but at least it's warm.

Where the forecaster is sunny with thunderstorms.

[Davidv]

22 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

And you're in Florida where the world is flat

Well actually need to update my profile.  I’m now between Kerrville and Dallas.  The hills around Kerrville may not be big, but still enough to fly the RNAV everytime at night.  Dallas has its challenges because of some 1700 ft agl cell towers 6 miles from the field.

[Hank]

2 hours ago, Davidv said:

As a personal rule, I won't fly any visual approach at night unless it's in a towered well lit city area.

I almost never go to places like that . . . . Towered? Well lit? City area? No, no, no!

[RJBrown]

That link brought up a crop duster crash April 20 2020.

The plane ended up just 2 miles north of here.

The crash was not the plane in this picture but, 

This plane is lower than my roofline (30’) and about 1000’ from the power lines.

That crop dusting is some wild flying.

[N201MKTurbo]

37 minutes ago, RJBrown said:

That link brought up a crop duster crash April 20 2020.

The plane ended up just 2 miles north of here.

The crash was not the plane in this picture but, 

This plane is lower than my roofline (30’) and about 1000’ from the power lines.

That crop dusting is some wild flying.

Yes, there isn’t much dirt in that part of town that Joe didn’t spray at some point. I would bet he sprayed your yard when it was a Cotten field.

He sprayed at night because the chemicals would degrade in the sunlight. He had two 1000 W lights in the nose and one retractable light pointing forward and one pointing to the side on each wing tip. They were his turning lights. I worked on them quite a bit. The retractable lights were Grimes units from WWII surplus. They were getting hard to find, but he had boxes of dead ones. I used to take them apart and fix them up, swap parts between them and get them working again. I also used to repair the voltage regulators for the PT6s he was always blowing them because he abused the electrical system so much with those lights. In exchange he let me work on my plane in his shop any time I wanted to and use his parts, which he wouldn’t let me pay him for. I had keys to all his buildings. I never got to fly the Air Tractor, but I did get to start them up and taxi them around when I was checking the electrical system. I flew over him a few times when he was spraying at night. He looked like a UFO with those crazy lights.

Edited February 6, 2021 by N201MKTurbo

[RJBrown]

You mean like this?

[irishpilot]

Thanks @carusoamfor the add. So, here's some links to get smart on visual glidepath systems such as PAPI and VASI. Flight planning to an unfamiliar airfield at night requires extra caution. Most visual lighting systems are designed for a 3 degree glidepath. If the GP is steeper than that, it is for obstacles. There are several techniques us Mooney drivers can use, even if we are not IFR certified.

1. At night, only fly into airfields with a visual glidepath system. If your home airfield doesn't have this system, then fly with someone who has night experience at your airfield to learn the visual illusions and "gotchas" associated. 

2. If flying off of a PAPI or VASI, don't do a "duck in" and accept not landing on "brick 1" of the runway. 

3. Dial in the ILS for that runway and use that as another tool, even if you are doing a night visual landing.

4. If the runway has an LPV approach and you have a WAAS receiver, you can use that flightpath to help you keep on a good visual glidepath. 

For those instrument rated, a way to reduce some risk is to file IFR and file to the IAF. If you have an EP, especially an engine related one, you are already on a frequency with someone who is trained to help. If you want to fly VFR during night VMC, then flight following is another way to have instant access to approach/center vs fumbling for the frequency while dealing with an EP. 

**These are just a few techniques and should not be confused with procedure**

Lighting Systems – Precision Approach Path Indicators (PAPI) (faa.gov)

AIM - Chapter 2. Section 1 (airresearch.com)

Precision approach path indicator - Wikipedia

[Jerry 5TJ]

If you have a Garmin GTN750 or 650 — You can fly the visual approach to (just about) any runway and get vertical guidance from 3 miles out.  

Here is a Garmin blog on Terminal Environment Safety: Visual Approach Guidance

[GeeBee]

2 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

If you have a Garmin GTN750 or 650 — You can fly the visual approach to (just about) any runway and get vertical guidance from 3 miles out.  

Here is a Garmin blog on Terminal Environment Safety: Visual Approach Guidance

Again, you have to check the data base. In this case in TN, the glide path is 3.5 deg but unless you check the data base in the Garmin unit, you don't know if they have the correct glide path set. Further if there is no glide path angle published, and there is an obstacle, you get a guaranteed 3 degree slope, which may or may not clear the obstacle. Not all airports are Part 139 conformal.  From your citation:

"With visual approach guidance, pilots can manage the descent to landing in visual flight conditions. Vertical guidance is provided based on a published glide path angle or a three-degree glideslope from the threshold of the runway. "

 

[MooneyMitch]

Or, when you decide not to adhere to VASI or PAPI, make sure your blades are nice and sharp!! 

[bradp]

Here’s a discussion from a few years ago when I discovered the limitations of +v.  Possibly relevant here. 
 

 

[V1VRV2]

Both of the runways @ BGF have RNAV/GPS approaches. One with LPV minimums. The other an LNAV approach. They should be utilized day/night IMC/VMC if the plane/pilot have the capability. I always cue up the approach to the runway I’m using. ALWAYS.

[Hank]

10 hours ago, V1VRV2 said:

I always cue up the approach to the runway I’m using. ALWAYS.

You're missing out on a lot if you only go places with approaches.

And why bother loading the approach to your destination in day VMC? You should be able to land there without even looking inside the cockpit other than to briefly verify airspeed and altitude. Here's hoping that you never have a complete electrical failure like I had, after breaking out during the course reversal for a VOR-A approach . . . . .

[Yetti]

There was a pilot that tangled with a tower guy wire around here.  Tower won.   Towers are really the only rising terrain we have to worry about here.    There was a strut in the flight school that had tangled with a powerline.

[V1VRV2]

 

52 minutes ago, Hank said:

You're missing out on a lot if you only go places with approaches.

And why bother loading the approach to your destination in day VMC? You should be able to land there without even looking inside the cockpit other than to briefly verify airspeed and altitude. Here's hoping that you never have a complete electrical failure like I had, after breaking out during the course reversal for a VOR-A approach . . . . .

I don't only go to places with instrument approaches but if there is one there I use it. Every airline I have flown for has the requirement in the ops specs that the approach to be cued up.

What can go wrong...

At night... black hole approach. Might as well be in IMC as there is no horizon, depth perception is zero and ability to judge altitude is nil. Add terrain between you and the airport and thats a recipe that can bite you in the @ss. UPS crash Birmingham. Yes they had the approach cues up but were proceeding visually. Ignored approach guidance.

During the day... in congested areas you can land at the wrong airport. That’s been done plenty. The approach can confirm your lined up on the right runway if there are parallel runways.

Unfamiliar airport... go during the day.

Unfamiliar airport at night with no approach. Skip it. Revert to above. Go somewhere else.

I was landing PBG the other night. It’s in the middle of nowhere. It was a black hole approach. Backed it up with the RNAV GPS RNWY 17.

[carusoam]

Great details V1!

Thanks for sharing them...

Best regards,

-a-

[GeeBee]

8 hours ago, Hank said:

You're missing out on a lot if you only go places with approaches.

And why bother loading the approach to your destination in day VMC? You should be able to land there without even looking inside the cockpit other than to briefly verify airspeed and altitude. Here's hoping that you never have a complete electrical failure like I had, after breaking out during the course reversal for a VOR-A approach . . . . .

If you fly for the airlines, you are REQUIRED to use all available aids for landing even in day VMC visual approach. It is why pilots who land at the wrong airport get into so much trouble, because they violated the Ops manual by not cueing up the approach aids. Most people who have professional experience do the same out of habit and good operating practice.

 

 

[Hank]

37 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

If you fly for the airlines . . .

I don't now, didn't in the past and won't in the future. 

But I did fly my Mooney for 3 years before getting Instrument rated, and most places that I flew to were new to me.

So far, almost a decade and a half of never landing at the wrong airport, with Approaches loaded only for announced practice approaches or in IMC.

Do you always fly your Mooney like an airliner, complete with a 2nd pilot calling out your checklists? If not, per your logic above, you should be. Or do you pick and choose which airline practices and policies to carry over to your Mooney based on yourown personal opinions? Because all of them certainly do not apply.

[GeeBee]

10 hours ago, Hank said:

I don't now, didn't in the past and won't in the future. 

But I did fly my Mooney for 3 years before getting Instrument rated, and most places that I flew to were new to me.

So far, almost a decade and a half of never landing at the wrong airport, with Approaches loaded only for announced practice approaches or in IMC.

Do you always fly your Mooney like an airliner, complete with a 2nd pilot calling out your checklists? If not, per your logic above, you should be. Or do you pick and choose which airline practices and policies to carry over to your Mooney based on yourown personal opinions? Because all of them certainly do not apply.

I fly my Mooney using the best practices available. No, I don't have a co-pilot so that is not available. I do have a good avionics suite, and that is available so I use it. Cockpit Resource Management. Use all your tools available. 

This is the one I am most familiar with as I knew Captain Ferguson personally. He was a good guy, a careful pilot, more experienced than most here. He had flown Casper to Sheridan a dozen times in the last 3 months..... but he put a 737 down on 3000 feet and could have injured passengers.

http://www.buffalobulletin.com/profiles/article_92509fc6-ec92-11ea-b494-57f772013f35.html

I would note this paragraph:

Even today, accidental landings happen. Between 1990 and 2014, the Associated Press of Records found there had been 150 such incidents. But this mistake wasn’t like the others. This one got people from all corners of America talking about Buffalo, Wyoming.