How far out do you call tower?

[MikeOH]

My bride and I were returning from a sightseeing flight this afternoon (it was absolutely GORGEOUS today in southern California, must have been >50 miles visibility and virtually no wind/turbulence) and when I called tower coming home I was 10 miles out.  Tower controller came back with a snarky, "You are WAAAY outside my airspace.  Call back when you're 5 miles out." And, then made a point of telling me he wasn't providing any separation services.

Okay, I admit I usually call up the home drone from 5 to 6 miles, but I've certainly called plenty of towers 10 miles out over the last forty-something years.  Never had a response like that.

So, did I 'screw up' by calling "WAAAAY out?"

[Guest]

I base my call distance on how busy the tower is by listening early and on my ground speed.  Typically 15 miles out and I seldom get “remain clear, I’ll call you back”

Clarence

[RLCarter]

What class airspace was it?

[carusoam]

General rule of thumb, first...

2X the diameter of the controlled space...

Our job, to let them know we have the latest ATIS...

when they have an approach controller... you are already in contact there, before you dial up the tower...

If they want to say we’re too far out, and when to call back... that’s perfect..!  

Call back when you get there, they will be expecting you...

Since we were all born as human beings... expect somebody to have made a mistake...

At least you didn’t get yelled at for being too close before calling up...

If they were busy, and you neglect to tell them which ATIS you have... you probably have over loaded their apple cart... making them feel a bit more stress...

 

Keep following what you know... no harm, no fowl...

 

Keep in mind some airports have some leftover structure... they may be a Delta, and have an approach frequency...

If you call the tower, and the Tower is expecting you to be in contact with approach first... you may be calling the tower too early...

Great question!

See what everyone has in mind...

We even have a few Mooney flying controllers around here...

It would really help to know which airport this occurred at, to get a feel for the geography and the shape of the controlled areas...

maybe... they knew you were having a great sunny VFR flight... and offered you to share some rain... 

Something must have got lost in translation... why would they tell you they were not able to give separation..?

VFR flight’s don’t usually get separation service... we’re VFR and as PIC, we are in charge of our own separation...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Warren]

I call the local class D (KBJC) at least 10 miles out. Sometimes they are so busy it is hard to get a call in. I learned early that if I wait much longer there is a chance I will have to divert to stay out of their airspace while I establish contact. I have adopted a 10 mile minimum for all class D and it works well. Class C I usually call tower or approach 20 miles out. At less busy airports I frequently get directions to report midfield downwind or cleared to a base leg, report a 3 mile final. 

[201er]

I call tower when approach tells me to 

[MikeOH]

More details:

1) I was in E space when I called.

2) NOT in contact with approach

3) Class Delta under Class Charlie (KPOC)

4) I had the current ATIS and told him on my initial call-up

5) Pattern was NOT busy.  No one for 26R where I was landing.  Two in the pattern for the south runway 26L)

[N201MKTurbo]

We all have cranky days....

[MikeOH]

2 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

We all have cranky days....

Well, that was MY reaction.

But, wanted to hear what the cognoscenti here have to say.

[ragedracer1977]

I've always kinda figured it on speed, how long til I'm in their airspace.  In a 172, 5 miles out is fine.  In a Mooney, 10 miles.  In my 310, 15-20 depending on how busy they sound.  I want to give them as much time as possible to work me in when I'm doing 170kts and all the pattern traffic is doing 80 knots

[PT20J]

[philiplane]

8-10 miles is only a few minutes out. Around South Florida, they get snarky if you call at the last minute, for good reason. 

[N201MKTurbo]

9 minutes ago, PT20J said:

There you go trying to confuse us with facts!

[MikeOH]

40 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Well, dang!  If he thought I was "WAAAY out" at 10 miles....I can't imagine what he'd have said if I'd called at 15!

[MikeOH]

31 minutes ago, philiplane said:

8-10 miles is only a few minutes out. Around South Florida, they get snarky if you call at the last minute, for good reason. 

That's what I've always figured, too.  It was pretty silly as I was in a descent and called him back in like 2 minutes when I got to 5 miles out.

[4cornerflyer]

Mike, if you want to cite the AIM on this, see 4.3.2:
Airports with an Operating Control Tower

1. When operating at an airport where traffic control is being exercised by a control tower, pilots are required to maintain two-way radio contact with the tower while operating within the Class B, Class C, and Class D surface area unless the tower authorizes otherwise. Initial callup should be made about 15 miles from the airport.

My own practice if I am not dealing with an approach controller is to make a first call to the control tower at 20 miles out, which leaves ample time for delays due to blocked calls or just being ignored before I have to worry about it. 

 

Jon

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by 4cornerflyer

[4cornerflyer]

Oh, someone beat me to it with the AIM citation. Well, I guess I second it then.

Jon

[PT20J]

2 hours ago, MikeOH said:

You are WAAAY outside my airspace.  Call back when you're 5 miles out.

 

1 hour ago, philiplane said:

Around South Florida, they get snarky if you call at the last minute, for good reason. 

Proof that you cannot win 

[MooneyMitch]

2 hours ago, 201er said:

I call tower when approach tells me to 

Technically, I agree.  However, there are situations where controller may forget to tell you to contact tower, so a prompt is required in order to get them tell you........ been there, done that .

[tigers2007]

At my remote towered airfield I call when 10 out. Only so they can give me traffic advisories as many folks don’t have ADS-B up here. I also listen far out to get a feel for who’s around (tower and approach).

[Skates97]

I'm going to go with him having a bad day. If I'm not on flight following I base it on being 3-4 miles outside of their airspace. If there is a good VFR reporting point in route I usually use that as it makes it easier to tell them where I am. Just down the road from you at KFUL I usually call up a mile or two east of the Water Treatment Plant (charted VFR reporting point) when coming from the east, which is about 10-11 miles east of the airport. If it's quiet I have often heard "Mooney 78878, make straight in runway two-four, cleared to land" and that is from about 11 miles out and still 3+ miles outside of their airspace.

[EricJ]

I usually call at ten miles, which is handy because I have a ten mile ring on the EFBs and the IFD display.    I did just notice that my most-often-used reporting point when returning to the home field is 13.95 miles, so I guess that's good.    Once in a while it's so busy it's hard to get a word in edgewise to call in, so the extra little distance is probably useful.

[RobertGary1]

Try calling him 5 miles out in a citation and see if he’s happy   I’m also going with bad day.  
 

-Robert 

[RobertGary1]

Just now, EricJ said:

I usually call at ten miles, which is handy because I have a ten mile ring on the EFBs and the IFD display.    I did just notice that my most-often-used reporting point when returning to the home field is 13.95 miles, so I guess that's good.    Once in a while it's so busy it's hard to get a word in edgewise to call in, so the extra little distance is probably useful.

I certainly see a future where ads-b aircraft don’t have to call in and the controller can simply acknowledge you by N number approaching without the limitation of voice on the radio.  
 

-Robert 

[Vance Harral]

2 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

I certainly see a future where ads-b aircraft don’t have to call in and the controller can simply acknowledge you by N number approaching without the limitation of voice on the radio. 

This is already happening - occasionally - at KBJC.  "Nxxxx, you up on my frequency?"  Nothing official about it yet, but happening just the same.