Jpi 900

[Candy man]

I used the search and couldn’t find the answer ( I didn’t look that hard) so I thought I’d ask the question.
 

I really want to add the jpi 900 to my 1970 C, but I have a few questions. Everybody that posts about there’s says it’s the best thing they’ve added to the plane.

 

900vs 930?
 

what happens if you lose the display or the whole instrument during flight, assuming you’ve removed the old instruments? And has this happened?

 

I also thought there was someone on MS who offered a discount. 
 

what question am I not asking that I should?

 

thanks in advance 

Lawrence

[jetdriven]

If you lose the display the plane is grounded. It was acting up severely with a friend of mine, but found out later that the plug on the back was loose. 

[gsxrpilot]

The only difference between the 900 and 930 is size of the screen. I went back and forth quite a bit but settled on the 900 and it's plenty easy to read.

If you lose the whole instrument or the display goes dark, you don't have any engine gauges. I would probably go land at the nearest airport, or continue to my destination if it wasn't too far. I wouldn't consider it an emergency. BTW it's never happened to me. And I've never heard of it happening. Of course you are not airworthy to take off again until it's working again. Of course, the same goes for your engine gauges now. And I have had that happen. I've lost the Tach twice and was grounded both times until I was able to get a replacement installed. That was before the 900. 

It's a common misconception that installing something like the 830 and keeping the factory gauges, will provide redundancy. And it does provide redundancy in flight, but not from an airworthiness perspective. If you lose your factory Tach, your not airworthy until it's replaced, even if you have the 830 installed and working correctly. 

So the goal is to have a set of engine gauges that are least likely to fail. For me, that answer is the JPI EDM 900 or some other Certified Primary engine gauge replacement product.

[carusoam]

Lawrence,

Great thinking!

The more you know about your engine’s operational details, the better you can be informed of any issues coming up over the horizon...

For pics of the 930 in an M20E... find Bob B’s Gypsy Rose... 

The 930 is identical to the 900 in most regards, but with the extra display size, a few more details are available at the same time on the larger screen...

 

So... if you have real estate for the large screen... go for it!

 

But, the decision process didn’t get any easier....
 

There is this pesky little company that makes an equally good engine monitor, called EI....

When trying to get tech service on the phone at JPI... some people have had difficulty...  MS has a sort of insider...  We have Jeev.... who sells enough equipment he can get a call back... if he doesn’t know the answer already...

For EI... not only do we have an insider, he is a resident of MS... aka Oregon87 (?)

EI also has some small steps into good engine details... if not going all in with one display...

So for collecting a wide array of primary data, the 900 rocks!
 

For displaying a wide array of the same data, the 930 is even better!

For collecting and displaying a wide variety of data with great customer service, go EI!

And lately there is this other thing to consider... Big G has a new-ish engine monitor if you are going all in with one company....

 

PP thoughts of the state of the market on engine monitors only... not an instrument guy...
 

Best regards,

-a-

[kortopates]

Another happy EDM-900 user. IMO one of the most important aspects of installing an engine monitor is installing in the pilots scan view and to do so you need a compact unit - thus the 900 for a Mooney sized unit. The 930 is more often installed on the far right which is out of view. Those with the setup will argue that you get the warning lights to install in your field of view but without it being in your scan you're losing trend information and waiting for it to alarm. 

[PTK]

1 hour ago, Candy man said:

what happens if you lose the display or the whole instrument during flight, assuming you’ve removed the old instruments?

If you have removed your OEM primary instruments primary and you lose the display the plane is grounded. This is why I retained my primary instruments and supplemented them with a large display EDM 800 in my scan. I’m also a firm believer in having these instruments in my scan. I don’t understand the reasoning of putting these vital instruments on the right side out of the primary scan. Mooney put them in front of the pilot for a reason!

I really like the Garmin GI 275 EIS and the flexibility it offers. Looking to replace the EDM800 with it. But will be keeping the original instruments.

[EricJ]

+1 on a 900 over a 930 with it within easy view.   

I kept my mechanical tach, partly because I still use it as the time recording for maintenance records, i.e., everything is based on what it says, not the JPI.   Also, in the unlikely event that the JPI fails in flight, the tach is nice to have for power settings to land. 

Regarding reliability, if you have six or eight separate instruments in your original required instrument list, any of which will ground you if it fails, that's actually a much higher likelihood of getting grounded than a single instrument (e.g., JPI) with a similar reliability rate.    It's just the idea that if you have N of something with a certain probability of failure, the likelihood of a failure of any of the N is much higher than the likelihood of a single one failing.  

So from that perspective you are no worse off (and probably better off) with a single JPI than you are with N different instruments as far as likelihood of getting grounded by any one of them.

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by EricJ

[Marauder]

If you have removed your OEM primary instruments primary and you lose the display the plane is grounded. This is why I retained my primary instruments and supplemented them with a large display EDM 800 in my scan. I’m also a firm believer in having these instruments in my scan. I don’t understand the reasoning of putting these vital instruments on the right side out of the primary scan. Mooney put them in front of the pilot for a reason!
I really like the Garmin GI 275 EIS and the flexibility it offers. Looking to replace the EDM800 with it. But will be keeping the original instruments.

You lose any of those original “primary” gauges, you’re grounded even with an EDM 800.


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[Marauder]

I used the search and couldn’t find the answer ( I didn’t look that hard) so I thought I’d ask the question.
 
I really want to add the jpi 900 to my 1970 C, but I have a few questions. Everybody that posts about there’s says it’s the best thing they’ve added to the plane.
 
900vs 930?
 
what happens if you lose the display or the whole instrument during flight, assuming you’ve removed the old instruments? And has this happened?
 
I also thought there was someone on MS who offered a discount. 
 
what question am I not asking that I should?
 
thanks in advance 
Lawrence

As others have said, the 900 and 930 are basically interchangeable. I found that I wanted it closer to me and that made the 900 more appealing.

As for the primary versus non-primary discussion, I would definitely not go the route of an 830, even if you kept your original Mooney primary gauges. I’m one of the idiots who did and found myself wanting to upgrade to the 900 not long afterwards.

The largest concern people have is the display. And I for one have had my fair share of JPI 900 issues, including a couple of display issues. I never lost the display completely, what did happen was there were lines missing in the display. After a warranty replacement, it failed again within a year. JPI did step up and replaced the display a third time but they are using a completely different display which is harder to read in sunlight. It’s a glare issue.

If you elect to remove your factory primary gauges, you can use other primary gauges like the EI series. In my case, with the 900, I wanted to have backup primary gauges for RPM, MP and fuel pressure. I had those EI gauges installed to augment the JPI in the rare cause the entire JPI display goes dark.




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[Missile=Awesome]

Counterpoint.  I definitely WOULD and DID install the non-certified primary EDM830 and could NOT be happier.  The upgrade path was easy...plug and play with our EDM700.  Have digital tach back-up primary and have personally NEVER had an analog primary engine gauge fail.  830 is pilot side and VERY easy to read.  Adding fuel flow harness at annual.  A VERY cost effective route to digital engine management.  ZERO regrets with decision.

[PTK]

3 hours ago, Marauder said:

You lose any of those original “primary” gauges, you’re grounded even with an EDM 800.

It is extremely rare for analog primaries to fail compared to digital all in one boxes. But I addressed even this rare possibility with the reference to the GI275 EIS  See last sentence of my post.

[jetdriven]

5 hours ago, kortopates said:

Another happy EDM-900 user. IMO one of the most important aspects of installing an engine monitor is installing in the pilots scan view and to do so you need a compact unit - thus the 900 for a Mooney sized unit. The 930 is more often installed on the far right which is out of view. Those with the setup will argue that you get the warning lights to install in your field of view but without it being in your scan you're losing trend information and waiting for it to alarm. 

I feel the same.  A 900 right in front of the pilot is as good or likely better than a more expensive 930 on the right side 

[kortopates]

5 hours ago, Marauder said:

If you elect to remove your factory primary gauges, you can use other primary gauges like the EI series. In my case, with the 900, I wanted to have backup primary gauges for RPM, MP and fuel pressure. I had those EI gauges installed to augment the JPI in the rare cause the entire JPI display goes dark.

I did the exactly the same thing, supplemented my EDM-900 with the EI RPM and MAP units, some redundancy on critical instruments is never a bad thing.

[ArtVandelay]

I did the exactly the same thing, supplemented my EDM-900 with the EI RPM and MAP units, some redundancy on critical instruments is never a bad thing.

For us NA guys, I don’t consider MP or RPM as critical...oil pressure and CHT temperatures...yes because they tell me if the engine is in distress.


Tom

[kortopates]

4 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

For us NA guys, I don’t consider MP or RPM as critical...oil pressure and CHT temperatures...yes because they tell me if the engine is in distress.


Tom

That makes good sense Tom, but I was thinking more along the lines of getting stranded on multiple week trips we do a couple times a year that take us out of the country. One of the reasons a single alternator aircraft was a non-starter for me. I am really not worried about losing the entire EDM display.  

[Ragsf15e]

You guy all trashing on the 930 just because nobody is around to stick up for the big guy?!  It’s plenty readable on the right side unless you’re blind!  For cripes sake, it’s a Mooney, the instrument panel isn’t like a 747!  The RAD (remote annunciation display) supposedly works if the display goes out and gives you any active warnings during normal use.  Honestly, I like how my setup looks better than the guys with 900s, but functionally they are the same.  The previous owner paid for mine though...

[tmo]

15 hours ago, EricJ said:

It's just the idea that if you have N of something with a certain probability of failure, the likelihood of a failure of any of the N is much higher than the likelihood of a single one failing. 

You and your fancy math stuff ;-)

[jetdriven]

9 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

You guy all trashing on the 930 just because nobody is around to stick up for the big guy?!  It’s plenty readable on the right side unless you’re blind!  For cripes sake, it’s a Mooney, the instrument panel isn’t like a 747!  The RAD (remote annunciation display) supposedly works if the display goes out and gives you any active warnings during normal use.  Honestly, I like how my setup looks better than the guys with 900s, but functionally they are the same.  The previous owner paid for mine though...

Here is an 830 right in front of the pilot. 

[gsxrpilot]

All the important stuff close and in direct view.

[Marauder]

You guy all trashing on the 930 just because nobody is around to stick up for the big guy?!  It’s plenty readable on the right side unless you’re blind!  For cripes sake, it’s a Mooney, the instrument panel isn’t like a 747!  The RAD (remote annunciation display) supposedly works if the display goes out and gives you any active warnings during normal use.  Honestly, I like how my setup looks better than the guys with 900s, but functionally they are the same.  The previous owner paid for mine though...

When I had my 900 installed, I had them connect up the remote indicator light. It will turn yellow or red depending on condition. I get to feel like a jet guy when I can hit the clear button on the JPI when the yellow light comes on after landing because my oil pressure is at 59 PSI.



And for a belts and suspenders kind of guy I am, I also have the EI AV-17 connected and I will get any of the call outs from the JPI. Like that lovely “Check voltage” when my regulator decided to departed the surly bonds of electrons.



I like the landscape view of the 900. Just not sure where I will move it to when the next avionics upgrade comes this Fall.




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[Jim Peace]

The 930 may have a clock that can be viewed full time on the screen with seconds....then you can get rid if the clock on the panel if you needed room

[Steve W]

42 minutes ago, Marauder said:

When I had my 900 installed, I had them connect up the remote indicator light. It will turn yellow or red depending on condition.

Well, that's good because it's required if the EDM 900 is used as a primary instrument.

 

[Ragsf15e]

45 minutes ago, Steve W said:

Well, that's good because it's required if the EDM 900 is used as a primary instrument.

 

Don’t think so.  Depends on where the 900 is mounted - if it’s directly in your field of view it the annunciater isn’t required... i think.

[StevenL757]

On 8/23/2020 at 11:57 AM, gsxrpilot said:

The only difference between the 900 and 930 is size of the screen. I went back and forth quite a bit but settled on the 900 and it's plenty easy to read.

If you lose the whole instrument or the display goes dark, you don't have any engine gauges. I would probably go land at the nearest airport, or continue to my destination if it wasn't too far. I wouldn't consider it an emergency. BTW it's never happened to me. And I've never heard of it happening. Of course you are not airworthy to take off again until it's working again. Of course, the same goes for your engine gauges now. And I have had that happen. I've lost the Tach twice and was grounded both times until I was able to get a replacement installed. That was before the 900. 

It's a common misconception that installing something like the 830 and keeping the factory gauges, will provide redundancy. And it does provide redundancy in flight, but not from an airworthiness perspective. If you lose your factory Tach, your not airworthy until it's replaced, even if you have the 830 installed and working correctly. 

So the goal is to have a set of engine gauges that are least likely to fail. For me, that answer is the JPI EDM 900 or some other Certified Primary engine gauge replacement product.

Agree 100%, and I think @kortopates and @Ragsf15e nailed it.

For @Candy man, I had a -900 for several years.  Just recently went with the 930 - strictly for the added real estate - I consider it pound-for-pound as good as the -900 in terms of performance.  Both are certified, both will ground the airplane if you lose functionality, and both will serve you well for many years.  If you decide on the -900, I suggest you go for landscape mounting.  As you probably know, The 930 can only be positioned/oriented in your panel one way.

The -900 has risen in price a bit more over the last few years than the 930, so it really only boils down to three things...your ego, the size of your wallet, and the size of the panel space you want to fill up.  Again - either will perform amazingly well.

Steve

Edited August 24, 2020 by StevenL757
Forgot how to finish writing a simple thought.

[Steve W]

15 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Don’t think so.  Depends on where the 900 is mounted - if it’s directly in your field of view it the annunciater isn’t required... i think.

As primary there are no exclusions.

"6. The remote alarm light is a Red or Yellow light depending on the alarm condition. The EDM-900 incorporates a single light that alerts the pilot that a problem existing within the engine. This light is placed in with the primary flight instruments and is required for primary installation. It is a single light that changes color with condition and the label associated with the light must be lit by a post light or such that you can see the word “ENGINE”."