Concord battey

[rotorman]

The battery on my 20J, 12v,  is always on an aircraft battery minder when in the hangar.  After 4 years since new, I find that when I put power to the aircraft before starting the Volts low light comes as soon I switch on the master.  Also, after a flight of 1.5 hours the volts low light comes on shortly after I shut the engine down. Is 4 years a reasonable service life for this battery? 

[Missile=Awesome]

Possible the low voltage is to show you alternator/Generator are not powering electrical. That’s what mine was doing with discharge light

[Hank]

I'm on Concord #3, approx. Year #11. Swapped it out sometime in 2016, no maintainer, and not as much flight time as I want / need for proficiency.

[Missile=Awesome]

Is your voltage indicator all the way left?

[carusoam]

6+ years seems to be the going Number for Concorde...

This is where you get it charged up and perform a capacity test...

There are a handful of things that can cause what you have described... from dirty connections, to a mis-set voltage regulator...

What does your volt meter tell you?

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[PT20J]

The only way to know the condition for certain is to do a capacity test. Documentation is on the Concord website. 

Skip

[EricJ]

11 hours ago, Missile=Awesome said:

Possible the low voltage is to show you alternator/Generator are not powering electrical. That’s what mine was doing with discharge light

Exactly, it's how you know when the alternator fails.

Alternator output should be around 14V, battery around 12V.   I think the threshold for the low voltage alarm is usually around 13V.      This is also how automatic backup alternators switch in, their output regulator is set lower than the primary, so when the primary fails it support the slightly lower output voltage.

[PT20J]

[rotorman]

Just to clarify. The light comes one after I disconnect the battery minder, pull the aircraft out of the hangar, preflight and then get in and turn on the master. So this is before the start. During the flight the meter is slightly right of center but there is always movement. After a 1.5 hour flight flight I shut down the engine. The volts light comes on almost immediately. My Stomescope has a volts page and it shows 11.7v just after the light goes on. I should check what the volts are in flight but at the moment the airplane is getting a new engine.

I eliminated the regulator because this low voltage condition happens after either the  battery minder or the alternator have been charging the battery. I don't think the regulator gets involved when the battery is being charged by the battery minder. Correct? 

[PT20J]

The aircraft voltage regulator is inop when the master and alt switches are off.

The Concord Manual indicates that 11.7 volts is fully discharged if there is no load on the battery. I would turn off the master and verify the open circuit voltage with a digital multimeter at the battery terminals, but it probably needs replacement. Battery life is greatly dependent on how the battery is treated, so claims of x years of service are really meaningless. Things that shorten battery life are: Overcharging (voltage regulator set too high) which boils off electrolyte, and deeply discharging without recharging immediately which causes sulfation. Battery life is extended by keeping it topped off with a trickle charger.

Skip

[EricJ]

The battery minder will raise the voltage at the battery terminals, that's how it keeps it charged.   It does sound like your battery might be sagging a little bit, but maybe not much.

 

[RobertGary1]

One of the reasons I avoid the battery minder. When the battery starts to get weak I can tell from slower and slower starts in the am. Don’t want to find out away from home it was only starting due to sitting on the minder.  
 

-Robert 

[ArtVandelay]

My 1st Concord lasted 2 years, we’ll see about the 2nd one. No battery minder.

[jaylw314]

4 hours ago, rotorman said:

Just to clarify. The light comes one after I disconnect the battery minder, pull the aircraft out of the hangar, preflight and then get in and turn on the master. So this is before the start. During the flight the meter is slightly right of center but there is always movement. After a 1.5 hour flight flight I shut down the engine. The volts light comes on almost immediately. My Stomescope has a volts page and it shows 11.7v just after the light goes on. I should check what the volts are in flight but at the moment the airplane is getting a new engine.

I eliminated the regulator because this low voltage condition happens after either the  battery minder or the alternator have been charging the battery. I don't think the regulator gets involved when the battery is being charged by the battery minder. Correct? 

IIRC from the J POH, the Low Volt warning light is an ALTERNATOR warning light, not a battery warning light.  It's there in the Emergency Procedures to warn you of a problem with the alternator, not your battery.  My warning light actually comes on below 700 RPM with the engine still running.  Your Stormscope (or other panel instruments) voltage meter only tells you your bus voltage with the instruments turned on, therefore it tells you nothing with the alternator off--your battery voltage ALWAYS drops when it's doing something, even when healthy. 

As @PT20J noted, the only way you can measure your battery health is to do a capacity test.  A quick and dirty way would be to to turn on your master and a few instruments and a couple radios, and watch your ammeter.  If you leave it on draining 15 amps, after half an hour your battery should be about 75% discharged (for a health 30 AH battery).  If you let it sit for a few more minutes after turning off your master, a voltmeter at the battery terminals should read higher than 12.3V.  That would be for a battery that has 75% of its original capacity.

[RobertGary1]

30 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

IIRC from the J POH, the Low Volt warning light is an ALTERNATOR warning light, not a battery warning light.  It's there in the Emergency Procedures to warn you of a problem with the alternator, not your battery.  My warning light actually comes on below 700 RPM with the engine still running.  Your Stormscope (or other panel instruments) voltage meter only tells you your bus voltage with the instruments turned on, therefore it tells you nothing with the alternator off--your battery voltage ALWAYS drops when it's doing something, even when healthy. 

 

It’s not really that smart. It’s just looking at bus voltage. I commonly see the light on after starting as it takes a little for the alternator to charge the battery and bring everything up to voltage. At that point the battery is a giant amp hog. 

I’m sure a bad battery could cause that light to stay on for awhile longer  

-Robert  

[jaylw314]

1 minute ago, RobertGary1 said:

It’s not really that smart. It’s just looking at bus voltage. I commonly see the light on after starting as it takes a little for the alternator to charge the battery and bring everything up to voltage. At that point the battery is a giant amp hog. 

I’m sure a bad battery could cause that light to stay on for awhile longer  

-Robert  

Well, a super bad battery would charge up really quick, so I suspect the light would go off faster  

[tls pilot]

if you need a new battery after testing

Best thing to do is buy a new Gill Battery 7035-28 if 12 Volt

or 7243-14 if 24 volt

The new sealed Gill Batteries truly perform and last unlike the old non sealed ones

Edited August 12, 2020 by tls pilot

[RobertGary1]

2 hours ago, tls pilot said:

if you need a new battery after testing

Best thing to do is buy a new Gill Battery 7035-28 if 12 Volt

or 7242-14 if 24 volt

The new sealed Gill Batteries truly perform and last unlike the old non sealed ones

Do you work for them?  Gill has been garbage for the last 5 years. 
 

-Robert 

[carusoam]

13 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

Do you work for them?  Gill has been garbage for the last 5 years. 
 

-Robert 

You are being generous...

My first bad gill experience was y2k...

How well do sealed batteries do in the FLs?

They are sealed and vented? How does that work?

Best regards,

-a-

[Jerry 5TJ]

2 hours ago, carusoam said:

They are sealed and vented? How does that work

They are “sealed” as there is no removable cap to add electrolyte. 
 

2 hours ago, carusoam said:

How well do sealed batteries do in the FLs?

Battery capacity is lower in the FL because the temperature is lowered.  

The temperature of the two batteries in the un-heated tail is about equal to the OAT.  

At -20 C the capacity is about 1/2 what it is at +20 C.   

Reference:  Sandia Labs SLA Article

That makes me think if your cold-soaked battery at FL250 suddenly Is the only source of electricity there may not be sufficient charge to descend to the nearest airport.  

[tls pilot]

To the posts who ask

No I do not work for Gill, never have worked for Gill. Just reporting my findings.

In my case, The battery 7243, is sealed. The manifold or venting is only used since that is how the battery box tray is in the plane.

 

What I do know is the life I have gotten out of my 7243 batteries

Not sure why certain folks on this site need to disparage or question people who write an honest review?

If folks like Concord use it, my experience w the NEW Gill Batteries has been superb. Just reporting...

IF you have not had a new Gill Battery LT type you do not have the experience to judge.

Certainly you can reflect on past products and make a judgement but you are not fully informed since you have not used the new product

Lastly here is a great link to explain battery capacity. Jerry 5TJ is correct this will add to the discussion

https://www.pveducation.org/pvcdrom/battery-characteristics/battery-capacity

Happy flying to all

 

[Sabremech]

My Concorde battery lasted a little more than 10 years. Capacity check fail is what caused me to condemn it. I plan on replacing it with another Concorde. I’ve heard that Gill is getting better but I’m not willing to take that chance as I’ve been burned by their batteries in the past. 
Takes a long time to rebuild customer confidence in a product when you’ve had a run of garbage products especially at aviation price levels.

David

[takair]

My current Concorde is coming up on 5 years and behaving will.  I keep it trickle charged and Desulfate occasionally.  The last three Gills lasted less than two years each, the last one less than one year.....that caused me to change brands.  Won’t go back unless Concordes start to have issues..

[ArtVandelay]

My current Concorde is coming up on 5 years and behaving will.  I keep it trickle charged and Desulfate occasionally.  The last three Gills lasted less than two years each, the last one less than one year.....that caused me to change brands.  Won’t go back unless Concordes start to have issues..

Did you treat the same: trickle charge, desulphate, and of course with wet cells make sure to occasionally top off with distilled water. I think the maintenance free is definitely an advantage.

[Hank]

Just now, ArtVandelay said:

Did you treat the same: trickle charge, desulphate, and of course with wet cells make sure to occasionally top off with distilled water. I think the maintenance free is definitely an advantage.

My current Concorde was installed in Sept 16, just before a trip to the boonies, because it was cranking pretty slowly. Still doing well, but after Annual (almost 6 weeks because Kelly made my 3-year-old ignition harness wrong and had to build a new one), the IA had to charge it to start. No trouble since then . . . .

I do not own or use a trickle charger or desulfator, but temps at home last week were in the high 90s with heat indices > 105.