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Received FAA Letter - ADSB Failure

MikeOH

By MikeOH
in Avionics/Panel Discussion

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MikeOH Grand Master

MikeOH

Posted
Posted (edited)

Got a certified letter in the mail yesterday from the FAA.  Scared the crap out of me:o

Turns out it was putting me on notice that my TailBeacon (TSO) has not been operating properly.  Namely, it is 100% failing for Mode 3A info; all other parameters are well within spec.  Further, when I went to check it out, my iPad could not see the WiFi connection even though I was standing right next to the TailBeacon!  I've put a 'ticket' into uAvionix but it looks like 3 to 5 business days for them to respond:(  Given the 4th of July holiday I'm thinking I'm not going to hear anything until next week.

Also, transponder is working fine; no complaints from ATC.

Anyone seen this failure mode?

 

Thanks!

Edited by MikeOH
RLCarter Grand Master

RLCarter

Posted
Posted

Not with the tailbeacon, but I had a GDL82 fail completely. It was was installed with the optional “failure light” which came on, Garmin sent a new unit out overnight.... good luck and hopefully it will be a quick and easy process 

RLCarter Grand Master

RLCarter

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, steingar said:

One of the reasons I was always mistrustful of the tail beacon.  How can you tell it's working?

I think there is an LED on the unit that shows it's working or not, the SkyBeacon was designed on a Cessna and the LED can be seen from the cabin, on a low wing it cannot 

  • Like 1
rbridges Grand Master

rbridges

Posted
Posted
On 7/1/2020 at 12:45 AM, MikeOH said:

Got a certified letter in the mail yesterday from the FAA.  Scared the crap out of me:o

Turns out it was putting me on notice that my TailBeacon (TSO) has not been operating properly.  Namely, it is 100% failing for Mode 3A info; all other parameters are well within spec.  Further, when I went to check it out, my iPad could not see the WiFi connection even though I was standing right next to the TailBeacon!  I've put a 'ticket' into uAvionix but it looks like 3 to 5 business days for them to respond:(  Given the 4th of July holiday I'm thinking I'm not going to hear anything until next week.

Also, transponder is working fine; no complaints from ATC.

Anyone seen this failure mode?

 

Thanks!

Can't help you with the failure mode, but I got the same certified letter when I was out of town.  Since I wasn't home to sign for it, I had to wait until Monday to go to the Post Office.  The whole time I'm wondering what it is.  I wish they had a less scary way of informing you.  I did google it, and someone said they don't come from the same place when there is a disciplinary action.   

Niko182 Grand Master

Niko182

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, Yetti said:

I try not to be that guy, but did you check the power?

If its passing certain modes but not others the power should be working.

MikeOH Grand Master

MikeOH

Posted
  • Author
Posted
On 7/1/2020 at 7:47 AM, steingar said:

One of the reasons I was always mistrustful of the tail beacon.  How can you tell it's working?

Uh, the FAA will send you a letter?:D

  • Haha 1
MikeOH Grand Master

MikeOH

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Follow-up:

Got ahold of uAvionix via their on-line ticket system.  They got back to me the next day and it looks like my TailBeacon is back to working.  I submitted a successful PAPR report to the FAA guy that sent me the letter, but he hasn't responded.  So, I'm not sure I'm 'home free' just yet.

Two things fixed the issue:

1) RTFM - for those of you that have a TailBeacon and don't know/did not RTFM, it turns out that you only have 5 minutes to establish the WiFi connection before the TailBeacon goes dark (for WiFi). I had waited too long before I attempted to connect.

2) There is a auto-adjust threshold setting that uAvionix had me run and that seems to have fixed the problem; 100% pass on the Mode 3A parameter that was previously nearly 100% failing.

Fingers crossed that that's the end of it!

  • Like 2
Unit74 Collaborator

Unit74

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, 59Moonster said:

I thought they only wanted someone to use it once? Either to get it into (to then install) or out of the ADSB required airspace?

You can use it a many times as you need. It’s up to the controlling ATC to approve or disapproval. You gonna tell a Cub pilot under a Class C shelf he can only fly out once and never come back? I suspect that if you abuse it as a means not to equip they may get wise and put the squeeze on you though. 

59Moonster Collaborator

59Moonster

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, Unit74 said:

You can use it a many times as you need. It’s up to the controlling ATC to approve or disapproval. You gonna tell a Cub pilot under a Class C shelf he can only fly out once and never come back? I suspect that if you abuse it as a means not to equip they may get wise and put the squeeze on you though. 

Thanks for that. I thought non-electric system airplanes were exempt. But if you have an electric system you were only supposed to use it once.

chriscalandro Mentor

chriscalandro

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, 59Moonster said:

Thanks for that. I thought non-electric system airplanes were exempt. But if you have an electric system you were only supposed to use it once.

This statement is accurate.  There's a lot of people that either don't actually know the rules, just make them up according to what they want them to be, or just flat out ignore them.

I live in a busy uncontrolled airspace with a lot of people that do dumb things.  If you do dumb things near me and I'm talking to ATC I will absolutely say "I have the maneuvering NON ADSB complaint traffic in site under the mode C veil.

 

The exception is for a 1 time exception for aircraft not based in an area where ADSB is required.  If you are based at a field where it is required you are 100% going to hear about it very quickly.

Edited by chriscalandro
Shadrach Grand Master

Shadrach

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, chriscalandro said:

The exception is for a 1 time exception for aircraft not based in an area where ADSB is required.  If you are based at a field where it is required you are 100% going to hear about it very quickly.

One time exception? Reg please?

59Moonster Collaborator

59Moonster

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Shadrach said:

One time exception? Reg please?

https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/programs/adsb/faq/#g5

Can I get a one-time deviation from the requirement?

The ADS-B Out rule allows a mechanism for pilots/operators without ADS-B Out equipment installed to request ATC authorization to deviate from the rule to access ADS-B Out rule airspace. The FAA published a policy in 2019 with guidance on how controllers will handle these aircraft. The policy is clear that unequipped aircraft cannot expect uninterrupted access to ADS-B airspace. The FAA continues to work on the implementation of this policy and authorization request mechanism.

The FAA encourages owners to equip as soon as possible to capture the benefits of ADS-B and to ensure they will be able to access all available airspace once the mandate becomes effective in 2020.

****somewhere on that page****

The ADS-B Out rule does not apply in the airspace defined in items 2 and 4 above for any aircraft not originally certificated with an electrical system or that has not subsequently been certified with such a system installed, including balloons and gliders. For additional requirements for using the exception for item 4, please refer to CFR 91.225 section (d) for the requirements.

Edited by 59Moonster
Shadrach Grand Master

Shadrach

Posted
Posted
On 7/1/2020 at 12:45 AM, MikeOH said:

Got a certified letter in the mail yesterday from the FAA.  Scared the crap out of me:o

Turns out it was putting me on notice that my TailBeacon (TSO) has not been operating properly.  Namely, it is 100% failing for Mode 3A info; all other parameters are well within spec.  Further, when I went to check it out, my iPad could not see the WiFi connection even though I was standing right next to the TailBeacon!  I've put a 'ticket' into uAvionix but it looks like 3 to 5 business days for them to respond:(  Given the 4th of July holiday I'm thinking I'm not going to hear anything until next week.

Also, transponder is working fine; no complaints from ATC.

Anyone seen this failure mode?

 

Thanks!

I am not a fan of the tail beacon. I know of at least two owners that are challenged by their decision to install a TailBeacon.  The location is sub optimal for both receiving GPS Data from Satellites above and broadcasting down to ADS-b Stations on the ground.  Much better to have a dedicated GPS antenna receiving on the top of the fuselage and a dedicated ADS-b antenna on the belly broadcasting below.

59Moonster Collaborator

59Moonster

Posted
Posted
Just now, Shadrach said:

I am not a fan of the tail beacon. I know of at least two owners that are challenged by their decision to install a TailBeacon.  The location is sub optimal for both receiving GPS Data from Satellites above and broadcasting down to ADS-b Stations on the ground.  Much better to have a dedicated GPS antenna receiving on the top of the fuselage and a dedicated ADS-b antenna on the belly broadcasting below.

Almost none of my tailbeacon flights showed up for tracking. Almost all of my GNX375 flights do show up. FWIW

Unit74 Collaborator

Unit74

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, chriscalandro said:

This statement is accurate.  There's a lot of people that either don't actually know the rules, just make them up according to what they want them to be, or just flat out ignore them.

I live in a busy uncontrolled airspace with a lot of people that do dumb things.  If you do dumb things near me and I'm talking to ATC I will absolutely say "I have the maneuvering NON ADSB complaint traffic in site under the mode C veil.

 

The exception is for a 1 time exception for aircraft not based in an area where ADSB is required.  If you are based at a field where it is required you are 100% going to hear about it very quickly.

The above statement about one time use is patently false. 

  • Like 1
Steve W Proficient

Steve W

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, 59Moonster said:

Almost none of my tailbeacon flights showed up for tracking. Almost all of my GNX375 flights do show up. FWIW

This is almost entirely due to the hobby trackers that feed those sites not having 978/UAT receivers yet.

  • Thanks 2
Andy95W Grand Master

Andy95W

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Unit74 said:

The above statement about one time use is patently false. 

It's both.  There is nothing in the program that specifies "one-time use".  But a 2-minute conversation with the FAA guys at OSH last year was enough to assure me that using this program more than "a couple of times" (their words) will definitely get you questioned about when you intend to equip with ADSB out.

Brian E. Proficient

Brian E.

Posted
Posted

I'm ADSB complaint now but living in between 3 Charlies and a small Bravo is used the Adapt tool no less than 20 - 30 times while I was waiting for my time in the shop queue.  As I recall all of the approvals were automated based on the near instantaneous approval.  I wouldn't say I was a rampant user but I'd file 4 in a weekend and a couple long east coast rides but never in the DC FRZ.

Use the tool and don;t be afraid the worst they can say is no.  BTW, I was originally going tailbeacon and went GNX-375--couldn't be happier.

 

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