Mooney down over New Hall Pass • Los Angeles

[DustinNwind]

Roll call for Mooneys in the Los Angeles area.. M20 down.

https://www.hometownstation.com/santa-clarita-news/breaking-news/search-underway-for-reported-plane-crash-near-5-freeway-in-newhall-pass-317608

*Update - found out who it is. 

[Shadrach]

Does not look like a good outcome is likely.  I truly hope I am wrong.

[kmyfm20s]

According to flight aware N777WP arrived at that time to KVNY? 

[MB65E]

VNY Twr was asking those on arrival to check for ELTs about 3:15pm when I was getting our clearance today. 
Weather was pretty nasty below, but it was a thin layer. We were on top around 5000. 
Saw a Cheorkee and some news helis launch but didn’t see any M20’s.
-Matt

[MrRodgers]

Michael Rodgers from the West Coast Mooney Club here.  I am also based at Van Nuys.  They are still trying to locate the plane as of 5:30 PST. I believe the plane was also based at Van Nuys as the pilot/owner is locally registered.  Weather here was really bad on and off throughout the day. Looks like the speed slowed to 30 kts at 3800 feet and then went into a spin.  Sad day.  Prayers for all aboard. 

[MrRodgers]

1 hour ago, DustinNwind said:

Roll call for Mooneys in the Los Angeles area.. M20 down.

https://www.hometownstation.com/santa-clarita-news/breaking-news/search-underway-for-reported-plane-crash-near-5-freeway-in-newhall-pass-317608

*Update - found out who it is. 

I know who as well.  I'm not going to release the name on the club site until its confirmed who was aboard.  Glad you are safe. 

[MrRodgers]

40 minutes ago, kmyfm20s said:

According to flight aware N777WP arrived at that time to KVNY? 

It didn't arrive.  If you check the flight log you will see that it's speed slowed to 30 Kts and then went straight down in excess of 150 kts from 3800 feet. Just a few miles North of the airport.

 

[kmyfm20s]

Just now, MrRodgers said:

It didn't arrive.  If you check the flight log you will see that it's speed slowed to 30 Kts and then went straight down in excess of 150 kts from 3800 feet. 

Bummer! That’s why I had the question mark. RIP to all on board!

[DustinNwind]

3 minutes ago, MrRodgers said:

It didn't arrive.  If you check the flight log you will see that it's speed slowed to 30 Kts and then went straight down in excess of 150 kts from 3800 feet. Just a few miles North of the airport.

 

Most likely ice.. so sad.

[cliffy]

Crap

[kmyfm20s]

2 minutes ago, DustinNwind said:

Most likely ice.. so sad.

Tops where around 5K and freezing level around 7K. Not saying it wasn’t ice but I wouldn’t think that was it. 

[ZuluZulu]

The ATC tape is disturbing and you may not want to seek it out.

[elimansour]

This is tragic.  

[ArtVandelay]

I listen to the ATC audio, he was having trouble tracking the ILS. Wasn’t doing correct read backs...then you can hear screaming.

Prayers to all.

Latest update is 2 fatalities.

[DustinNwind]

30 minutes ago, kmyfm20s said:

Tops where around 5K and freezing level around 7K. Not saying it wasn’t ice but I wouldn’t think that was it. 

It was hard IFR at KVNY at that time with very low ceilings and 1C at 3,000, but that's the info on the ground.

[MB65E]

Dang!

We had no ice in the climb at 3:42pm. Temp was +12.

-Matt

[Bob_Belville]

 @mike_elliott, heads up...

[hammdo]

Heartbreaking... just, wow listening to it and watching it in flightaware

 

prayers to the family...

-Don

[mike_elliott]

This is a sad thing to wake up to. I have reached out to Michael Rogers to supply surviving spouse info and possibly be the point person for the Summit when the time is appropriate so that the Mooney Summit can engage the Bill Gilliland foundation, unfortunately once again. 

[Shadrach]

11 hours ago, DustinNwind said:

Most likely ice.. so sad.

Looks like he was disoriented and stalled in the clag.  For whatever reason he was having trouble maintaining a stable descent rate.  I wouldn't think icing the likely culprit for back to back altitude rate changes in excess of a 1000FPM (caveats of using FA alt data noted).  Sad situation. RIP

Edited March 14, 2020 by Shadrach

[chriscalandro]

That controller certainly was not any help whatsoever. 

[toto]

I don't know whether this adds any value to the conversation, but I've learned to take FA data for approach/landing with a grain of salt. When an aircraft is near the ground, it can get pretty sketchy. I've seen perfectly normal approaches that show bizarrely low speeds or bizarrely high vertical speeds. I think that FA uses the raw data and tries to interpolate from infrequent ADS-B pings. E.g., tower asks the plane to do a 360 for spacing, FA shows some weird heading changes but paints a straight line with a 30kt speed.

The FA depiction of this flight might be perfectly accurate, but it might also be making some assumptions based on limited data. 

[chriscalandro]

That transcription is incomplete. The controller continues to repeat “fly straight and level”. 
 

when someone is clearly having an issue repeating the same useless comment is not useful or helpful in any way. 

Edited March 14, 2020 by chriscalandro

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, toto said:

I don't know whether this adds any value to the conversation, but I've learned to take FA data for approach/landing with a grain of salt. When an aircraft is near the ground, it can get pretty sketchy. I've seen perfectly normal approaches that show bizarrely low speeds or bizarrely high vertical speeds. I think that FA uses the raw data and tries to interpolate from infrequent ADS-B pings. E.g., tower asks the plane to do a 360 for spacing, FA shows some weird heading changes but paints a straight line with a 30kt speed.

The FA depiction of this flight might be perfectly accurate, but it might also be making some assumptions based on limited data. 

Agreed which is why I said as much in parentheses in my post. That being said, I’ve also seen FA altitude and vertical speed match exactly. 
if you look at the data in this case,  descent control appears deteriorate drastically in the minutes preceding the departure from controlled flight. Perhaps just a coincidence.

[Shadrach]

8 hours ago, chriscalandro said:

The controller continues to repeat “fly straight and level”. 
 

when someone is clearly having an issue repeating the same useless comment is not useful or helpful in any way. 

I haven’t listened to the recording but i did read the transcript. I don’t take it as a useless comment. I think the controller was simply trying to get the pilot to stabilize the aircraft and disregard all previous instructions. The reality is this airplane didn’t hit anything in flight. All indications point to a loss of control. If the pilot was seriously disoriented, giving him turn, heading and climb instructions were not going to help the situation. I think this was the controller’s best attempt to try to remove as much  workload as possible from a guy in the struggle of his life. I imagine that both individuals felt utterly helpless. One has to live with the aftermath the other does not.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Shadrach