How Soon to Retract Gear?

[201er]

How soon do you retract gear? I know we're taught to wait to clear the entire runway but sometimes I feel that if I don't take it up, I won't clear it!

[aerobat95]

For me once I am climbing away with a good engine I clean up.  I know some people use the technique that once there is not sufficicent runway remaining to put the plane back down they retract the gear.  I would rather get cleaned up and climbing away then leave the gear down.  I want to get the most amount of energy because that gives me the most options. 

[flight2000]

Soon as I'm climbing, the gear comes up.  Then again I don't have the electric gear and can drop the gear in about 2 seconds if something happens.  I'd rather have the extra drag disappear as soon as possible.  YMMV...

Brian

[skyking]

No real logic, but when I see the runway disappear under the nose, I put the gear up.  Lee

[Jerry 5TJ]

With the fast-acting manual gear in the "C" I like to snatch it up smartly just as I go past the airport cafe.  Usually I'm about 200' AGL at that point and committed to landing on the golf course off the departure end, anyway, should the Lycoming give up.    

[jax88]

When it is no longer reasonable to attempt to put the aircraft back down.  Even when taking off from 5000ft @ 100 degrees F my 75 F model has no trouble establishing a positive rate of climb.

 

[Seth]

Different for manual vs electric gear:

Johnson bar:  Once I establish a positive rate of climb, I retract the gear - sometimes it is very quickly, other times it is a tad less quickly.  If you wait to long with the johnson bar, it requires more strength (besides who wants lopsided biceps?).  I feel that if I need to, I can very quickly place the gear back down with the Johnson Bar.

Electric - I wait until I have a positive rate of climb, no useable runway is left, and I'm high enought that if I did want to put it back down, I could cycle the enitre gear down and it would have time to lower and lock before touchdown - that requires at least a few hundred feet.

 

-Seth

 

[Immelman]

I used to 'suck' the gear up quickly, but while training for my CFI I discussed the topic with other instructors and gave it some thought. I now believe its best, under normal conditions, to wait until no more usable runway remains. Should the unthinkable happen immediately after takeoff, this provides that extra margin of safety.

I said "normal" circumstances above. In hot/high conditions, or where climb gradient is paramount, I am inclined to raise the gear as soon as a positive out-of-ground effect climb is established with no chance of the airplane settling back down in a down-draft.

Johnson bar drivers take note: our gear is very easy to retract at low speeds, easy to extend at high speeds (Al Mooney is a genius!) -- but the opposite is true as well. If you try to lower the gear at low speeds, some muscle is required. In the event of a power loss that is a significant distraction.

[Swingin]

Only have about 25hrs in a Mooney (M20E, Johnson bar) - but substantially more time in other much-more-high-performance singles.  Bottom line for me is that speed=altitude=life.  Having the gear down any longer than necessary is counter to that.  The 'impossible turn' argument is better kept in another thread, but altitude and/or speed buys you options.  And when we're to that point, I'm not worried about the damage that a gear-up landing will have caused.  Gear up, Vx until I'm comfortable with my options, then cruise-climb.

[Hank]

Usually right about here--see photo, they are already retracting. I don't have a good shot at my home field, but it's shorter and the trees at the end are closer. This field is 3600' and fairly smooth [at the beach].

Rotate, establish climb, look at VSI & feel positive rate, gear up, accelerate to Vy; when heavy/missing/go around, clear obstacles then raise flaps. My electric gear only takes 3 seconds to swing either way, and with a departure power failure, they won't help in the trees . . .

[Parker_Woodruff]

Login bug?

[fantom]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

Get the gear up.

[DaV8or]

It depends on the airport. At my old airport (KOAK) taking off from 27 there is an available cross wind runway, 33 available in case of engine failure on climb out. At Oakland I will wait until I can't use 33 anymore. At my new airport, if I take off 23 there are hills and obstructions at the end of the runway, so in this case I'll get the gear up just after flaps.

[skyking]

I am in the useable runway camp. As soon as there is no runway left to use up comes the gear.

[Dale]

I am in the gear up quickly camp.  There are more options with the gear up: first, altitude - you climb out quicker (altitude = safety); second, engine out scenario - you have a better chance of a longer glide with the plane clean and you have a better chance of making a turn (to avoid obstacles) without the added drag of the landing gear.  With the gear down, any turn results in greater altitude loss.  I have practiced this scenario on my flight simulator hundreds of times.  You can make reasonable turns (sometimes with the right conditions, i.e. weight in the plane, and altitude, you can even make it back to the airport) without the enormous altitude loss, when you have the gear up, as the plane does not have as much drag.  When the gear is down, turns result in greater altitude loss.  If the engine goes out and you are in the air and half way down the runway (on a 3 or 4 thousand foot runway), it is unlikely you will get the plane back down on the runway and stopped with the gear down, with the gear up you may be able to stop before the runway ends and the homes begin.  Just my 2 cents on this issue.

[Magnum]

Quote: Dale

I am in the gear up quickly camp.  There are more options with the gear up: first, altitude - you climb out quicker (altitude = safety); second, engine out scenario - you have a better chance of a longer glide with the plane clean and you have a better chance of making a turn (to avoid obstacles) without the added drag of the landing gear.  With the gear down, any turn results in greater altitude loss.

[201er]

Does anyone know of any accidents where the gear was retracted too soon and the plane was wrecked due to a downdraft or loss of lift with gear up?

[Hank]

Seems like I heard of some poor soul in a long-body who initiated a go-round and raised the gear before he had positive rate of climb, but I won't swear to it . . .

[carusoam]

Blame the gear being down.

Excerpt from the Ovation story...

Fire officials says the College Station man was trying to land at a nearby airport but realized he was going too fast and when he attempted to take off and land again. Officials say his rear tire caught a fence and then took down an electrical pole and power lines.

Fortunately, there aren't many Ovation stories to pick from....

Best regards,

-a-

[Dale]

As a follow up to the gear up quickly camp, I believe that gear up quickly in most cases does not mean the moment the plane breaks ground (unless some peculiar attributes of the runway call for this).  Instead, I believe that gear up quickly, on a normal paved runway, is more closely akin to raising the gear after a positive rate of climb is achieved and most planes hit about 100 feet of altitude. 

In the 70's my father and I flew an M20E in and out of short grass fields around South Florida for my father's farming business.  Due to the length of the field, and the obstacles at the end of the field, a quick retraction of the gear was required to clean up the plane and assure a safe climb out over the obstacles.  My father had an engine out after takeoff and, because he had cleaned the plane up quickly, he was able to pick up enough altitude to glide the plane over the obstacles at the end of the grass runway and put it down in the adjoining field with minimal damage.  Even that little extra altitude gives you options, and time, you might not otherwise have, to make a quick, but good, decision.  Had he kept the gear down, he could not have gotten the plane back onto the runway (and stopped) when the engine quit and he would have ended up in the trees at the end of the runway.  As Magnum pointed out earlier, it only takes seconds to lower the gear, if the situation calls for it.

[Parker_Woodruff]

M20J Gear retraction video

[David Mazer]

I remember reading about two CFIs trying to test the concept of don't raise the gear until you can no longer land safely.  They both died in the wreck.  I get the gear up when the plane has a positive rate of climb.  I'm not too worried about the damage an engine out landing will do with the gear up.  Like Parker said - it isn't my airplane anymore.

[PTK]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

Get the gear up.  Your engine will fail as a result of time, not your height above the airport.  If you lose the engine, having the gear up sooner meant you got some extra altitude.

It's the insurance company's plane at that point.

Plus, it looks cooler when the gear comes up sooner.

[John Pleisse]

As soon as it is no longer possible to put it back down on the runway.

[Jerry 5TJ]

Quote: N4352H

As soon as it is no longer possible to put it back down on the runway.