N711PP, new M20V gear collapse KOPF

[takair]

Sorry this happened.  Such a nice plane.  Keep the spirits up.  This would be painful on a 50+ airplane, can’t imagine this on a new one.

Unfortunately this happens way too often to Mooney’s....exceeding turn limits that is.  I try to check the truss whenever I left the plane where they may have towed it.....but often forget.  I’ll be getting back in the habit.  Also check the stops, they break first on equipped aircraft.

I’m sure the guys at Mooney know this, but sometimes trying to get a ferry job going gets people rushed....but be sure your rudder pushrods, stops, etc are all checked as well.  If they did that much damage to the gear then it likely exceeded the rudder travel stops too....and something had to give.

 

[OHAEDO]

Sorry this happened.  Such a nice plane.  Keep the spirits up.  This would be painful on a 50+ airplane, can’t imagine this on a new one.
Unfortunately this happens way too often to Mooney’s....exceeding turn limits that is.  I try to check the truss whenever I left the plane where they may have towed it.....but often forget.  I’ll be getting back in the habit.  Also check the stops, they break first on equipped aircraft.
I’m sure the guys at Mooney know this, but sometimes trying to get a ferry job going gets people rushed....but be sure your rudder pushrods, stops, etc are all checked as well.  If they did that much damage to the gear then it likely exceeded the rudder travel stops too....and something had to give.
 

Yes they know and were present - parts for ferrying being flown in

This is NOT on MOONEY at all - or their craftsmanship


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[takair]

5 minutes ago, OHAEDO said:

Yes they know and were present - parts for ferrying being flown in

This is NOT on MOONEY at all - or their craftsmanship


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I hope I did not imply this had anything to do with Mooney.  I did not mean to even remotely imply that.

I’ve seen towing damage too many times and it is all on the person towing.

 

[Davidv]

10 minutes ago, takair said:

I hope I did not imply this had anything to do with Mooney.  I did not mean to even remotely imply that.

I’ve seen towing damage too many times and it is all on the person towing.

 

Absolutely, as @OHAEDO points out we have 11 or 13 degrees of travel.  Compare that to a Cessna 172 with 30 degrees or an SR-22 with 108 degrees and it’s easy to see how an inexperienced ramp person can seriously screw up our airplanes if they had been moving around cessnas and cirrus’s all day. 

[Seymour]

1 hour ago, OHAEDO said:

I’m changing FBOs and got a sidewinder tower by the way,... HA! No one touches my plane, like, ever,


Best wishes for a full and speedy Mooney recovery.    ....and I'm now shopping for a sidewinder!    Thank you for letting us know the details. 

[OHAEDO]

Best wishes for a full and speedy Mooney recovery.    ....and I'm now shopping for a sidewinder!    Thank you for letting us know the details. 

You’re welcome - I’m distraught and devastated - but know MOONEY has been stellar A they really have been - and you know - stuff does happen. But I have a new plane - so no tear downs - new engine and new everything and if Signature doesn’t want to own up then it’s on their dime and were all good . I don’t hurt people but I know when I need to be made whole. Everyone now seems to get that so - horrors aside - all good


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[xcrmckenna]

Was it Signature?


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[alextstone]

2 hours ago, OHAEDO said:

They used the HUGE tow truck, like for jets which has the LONG towbar. They turned 45 degrees because that was what the kid was taught, well, it’s 11 and 13 degrees. So they sheared the gear and it collapsed immediately afterwards for obvious reasons. I’m sick to my stomach.

And listen, I’m rated on the sr20’s and 22’s and can do compares but this is akin to boating. Hatters guys speak in biblical terms about Hatteras vs Viking and vice versa. So I say to each his own.

Mooney flew a Company big Kajuna who was there with me and hand held me and they couldn’t do better under a sad and freaky thing for me. It’s an accident and you know, new engine and parts and we’re good.

I’m changing FBOs and got a sidewinder tower by the way,... HA! No one touches my plane, like, ever,


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Thanks for all of the posts describing what happened.  Your attitude is impressive.  I hope you are made whole quickly and this unfortunate situation does not dampen your enthusiasm.

I have not always been in the habit of asking line persons whether they know the towing limits of a Mooney.  Oddly enough though, last week on the way back to MS from AZ, I diverted to Denton TX (US Jet Center FBO) and just as I was about to walk away from the airplane to catch an Uber, I turned around and asked the very "young" line person if he knew about the towing limits for Mooneys.  He smiled and said, "Yessir, 11 and 13 degrees.  I'll take good care of her for you."  That young man was trained well!  Unfortunately, the next morning, I was charged for 118 gallons instead of the 30 gallons I ordered.  It turned out that the clerk confused my airplane with another.   Both encounters were good reminders to check and double check everything, assume nothing.

Alex

 

[exM20K]

SOP for me is to run a finger down the two down tubes on the nose gear as part of my preflight.  There are no dents or paint chips.  If I feel something, then something potentially bad has happened, and I’ll look more closely.

 

sadly, even if the tug had collapsed the gear, you’d be in the same position on needing a tear down inspection and prop.  My prob always stops with one blade down, not two, and that one blade has only 11” of clearance.  

 

Im a big fan of the turntable type tugs which do protect the nose gear, but I’m too cheap to replace my 22 year old power tow with the BestTug I really want.

.-dan

 

[aviatoreb]

Oh bummer!!!!

hang in Omar!

[ilovecornfields]

3 hours ago, OHAEDO said:

You’re offensive and uninformed.


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Hi Omar,

Before you start insulting half of Mooneyspace, maybe you should take a moment to collect your thoughts. Calling someone you know nothing about “offensive and uninformed” is usually an “offensive and uninformed” statement by its very nature so you may want to use that more selectively in the future.

Here is the study:

https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/128/4/772

Sorry you missed the towing damage on your preflight.

Sorry your nose gear collapsed.

Not a reason to go insulting everyone.

 

[OHAEDO]

Hi Omar,
Before you start insulting half of Mooneyspace, maybe you should take a moment to collect your thoughts. Calling someone you know nothing about “offensive and uninformed” is usually an “offensive and uninformed” statement by its very nature so you may want to use that more selectively in the future.
Here is the study:
https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/128/4/772
Sorry you missed the towing damage on your preflight.
Sorry your nose gear collapsed.
Not a reason to go insulting everyone.
 

Oh geez. I guess there’s always someone. Try www.empathy.com before posting about Spongebob. Best wishes.




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[FloridaMan]

This has been painful for all of us, but could you share all of the photos that you have of this? I believe it's an injury that should be shared with all FBOs for training. Someone can confirm, but if my memory serves correctly, there was a Mooney fly-in last year that resulted in three badly damaged nose trusses. 

[skykrawler]

The models with the large engines have more weight on the nose wheel.   If this was an experimental aircraft somebody would strengthen the design.  For example, why doesn't Mooney add additional gussets to the truss to make it a stronger?  It wouldn't eliminate the need to replace it when damaged, but it might prevent the collapse and resulting expensive  damage.

 

[Mcstealth]

Omar,

You have stated Mooney was and is with you. Mooney is effecting repairs. Won’t you, or Mooney, work in cahoots with Signatures insurance company?

 

[aviatoreb]

1 minute ago, skykrawler said:

The models with the large engines have more weight on the nose wheel.   If this was an experimental aircraft somebody would strengthen the design.  For example, why doesn't Mooney add additional gussets to the truss to make it a stronger?  It wouldn't eliminate the need to replace it when damaged, but it might prevent the collapse and resulting expensive  damage.

 

Strengthening it would be a good idea, generally.  But it is hard for me to imagine strengthening those tubes sufficiently to withstand being torqued by a massive FBO tug and then still being sufficiently strong while cracked.

[OHAEDO]

21 minutes ago, Mcstealth said:

Omar,
You have stated Mooney was and is with you. Mooney is effecting repairs. Won’t you, or Mooney, work in cahoots with Signatures insurance company?
 

The way this works is a) ameliorate damage and stop bleeding b) coordinate repairs - yes will be done at MOONEY so I get new engine and new everything. I have a new plane and I want back a new plane not a torn down engine c) go after FBO for DIRECT and INDIRECT losses (e.g loss of use etc...)  - my carrier does that for me

Hope this is helpful


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[cbarry]

As I’m reading the various posts, a question comes to mind:  Is it possible for a pilot to damage the nose gear trusses simply by hard braking when turning or is there not enough leverage to do so?  I’m not questioning the origin of the damage of the OP’s aircraft, just posing the question.

Edited April 13, 2019 by cbarry

[Hank]

6 minutes ago, cbarry said:

As I’m reading the various posts, a question comes to mind:  Is it possible for a pilot to damage the nose gear trusses simply by hard braking when turning or is there not enough leverage to do so?  I’m not questioning the origin of the damage of the OP’s aircraft, just posing the question.

Given how many of us less-than-perfect pilots have been flying Mooneys for six decades now, and that even a good number here have IO550s of one version or another, plus the nice folks with Rockets, I'd like to think that if this was even a possibility, it would have happpened several times already. 

[bradp]

My SOP after reading oh so many of these and having witnessed one firsthand (see my post above) is to be an OCD idiot at every FBO I visit .  This is just me and probably overkill  

1) call ahead and ask if I can go right to tie down if it’s practical.  

2) verbally communicate with line guys - explain why we Mooney drivers freak out about being towed 

3) post flight snap a pic of the truss. 

4) write down on the info slip extreme caution when towing 

5) pre flight take another pic of truss. 

[OHAEDO]

My SOP after reading oh so many of these and having witnessed one firsthand (see my post above) is to be an OCD idiot at every FBO I visit .  This is just me and probably overkill  
1) call ahead and ask if I can go right to tie down if it’s practical.  
2) verbally communicate with line guys - explain why we Mooney drivers freak out about being towed 
3) post flight snap a pic of the truss. 
4) write down on the info slip extreme caution when towing 
5) pre flight take another pic of truss. 

I thought same and kicked myself.

But

Mooney guy told me there’s no way I could tell as the damage is done internally. I can’t see how that is so but he calmed me down and told me there’s no way I could’ve seen this. YIKES!!!!

My SOP is to get a portable tow - I purchased the sidewinder - and put the parking brake always.


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[bradp]

Mine is old and grimy and greasy.  It’s pretty easy to tell if it’s touched something.  Good on the sidewinder.  

[flyboy0681]

16 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

I remember reading a study about kids watching Spongebob Squarepants and if they gave them cognitive tasks before and after the episode their performance dropped by the equivalent of several IQ points. I always assumed Nikko’s Wings was the aviation version of that. Nice plane, but clueless narcissist for a pilot. I had to stop watching because I could feel my brain cells commiting harakiri.

Nikko keeps his Cirrus a few doors down from me and we've talked a few times. Let me convey that he's a nice guy.

[ilovecornfields]

31 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

Nikko keeps his Cirrus a few doors down from me and we've talked a few times. Let me convey that he's a nice guy.

Jerry W seems like a really nice guy, too. I would love to have a beer with him sometime. Doesn’t mean I think he’s a good pilot or that he doesn’t have a higher than average likelihood of killing himself or someone else in his airplane. At least Jerry leaves the bad comments up, whereas Nikko is very clear that he deletes the comments he doesn’t like “because it’s my channel.”

Great role model.

[David Lloyd]

Many years ago a friend left his E at an FBO.  He returned, it was sitting in the same spot, he started the engine and the nose gear collapsed as soon as he began to taxi.  He told me and I don't know this to be accurate but sounds probable; He left the parking brake on, they tried to move the airplane with a tug, pushed it backward and found the parking brake on, unhooked and left the airplane in place.  The nose retract rods were bent when they attempted to push it back and the nose gear retracted as soon as the airplane moved.  Would not have caught this in the preflight as the nose trunnion itself was not damaged until later.  I can imagine something similar taking place with big chocks behind the mains and no parking brake.

Prompted me to buy insurance on my C.

Seems like the nose gear trunnion would have to have huge dents to collapse while being towed.  Just wondering what happened.

Edited April 13, 2019 by David Lloyd