Flap Extension Speeds

[MikeOH]

14 hours ago, Pinecone said:

When was that’s?

Last time I went with tickets was 1966 and you could not combine tickets.

But military could get books with all the tickets being good for any ride

Before my time.  I'm going by this excerpt from the Wikipedia entry, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_ticket:

"The coupons had a face value for use on rides, with an "A" ticket worth $0.10, "B" $0.15, "C" $0.25, "D" $0.50, and "E", $0.85. This meant one could ride any ride if the ticket or a combination of tickets met or exceeded the value of that ride, so one could overpay an "A" ticket ride with a "B" ticket or higher, or present an "A", "C", and "D" ticket together instead of an "E" ticket."

[Pinecone]

OK, like I said, in 1966, I do not recall that being the case.

But my last trip was a school trip (private school in SD), and we had a bunch of left over military tickets.   So I just had to buy an entry ticket and burn up the unused tickets from previous visits, as my Dad had orders out of the area.

[Pinecone]

Back on the topic of flap extension, is it possible to install the newer 3 position flap switch?  And how much paperwork hassle?

[carusoam]

On 11/29/2022 at 6:53 AM, Pinecone said:

Back on the topic of flap extension, is it possible to install the newer 3 position flap switch?  And how much paperwork hassle?

It has a couple of position switches to go with that…

Sooo… expect a bunch of wiring to be required…

Typical of all LBs…

It is nice to have.

Best regards,

-a-

[PT20J]

According to Bob Kromer, the 252 is the only Mooney with a higher listed speed for partial flaps. Analysis showed that the flaps and structure could withstand the higher speed - there was no change to the airframe. So, why wasn't this carried forward? Because most new airplanes were being shipped with the optional speed brakes which do a better job of slowing down with no pitch trim change and so a higher partial flap speed was kind of superfluous. There was engineering cost involved to change the TCDS and AFM limitations which require FAA approval and the marketing department didn't care, so they dropped it.

Skip

[ttflyer]

15 hours ago, PT20J said:

According to Bob Kromer, the 252 is the only Mooney with a higher listed speed for partial flaps. Analysis showed that the flaps and structure could withstand the higher speed - there was no change to the airframe. So, why wasn't this carried forward? Because most new airplanes were being shipped with the optional speed brakes which do a better job of slowing down with no pitch trim change and so a higher partial flap speed was kind of superfluous. There was engineering cost involved to change the TCDS and AFM limitations which require FAA approval and the marketing department didn't care, so they dropped it.

Skip

Just to pick a nit or two, the 205 apparently has many of these same 252 changes.  This is from our POH on a 1988 205 (M20J):

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by ttflyer
pdf to jpeg

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, ttflyer said:

Just to pick a nit or two, the 205 apparently has many of these same 252 changes.  This is from our POH on a 1988 205 (M20J):

 

Good point. It was a long time ago and I’m sure Bib probably meant the 252 and 205. 

[Will.iam]

2 hours ago, PT20J said:

Good point. It was a long time ago and I’m sure Bib probably meant the 252 and 205. 

Except my 252 has lower limits than the 205 so maybe the 205 is more robust?

 

[Will.iam]

On further inspection looks like the kcas is within a knot of each other which could very well be within the read error of the instruments. It’s the kias that differs more and i guess that’s just the error from placement and instrument. 

[PT20J]

4 minutes ago, Will.iam said:

On further inspection looks like the kcas is within a knot of each other which could very well be within the read error of the instruments. It’s the kias that differs more and i guess that’s just the error from placement and instrument. 

OK, I screwed this up. My conversation with Bob was about the 205, but somehow I got the 252 in my head when I made the post.

So to clarify: It is only the M20J 205 that has the higher partial flap speed.

Sorry for the confusion.

Skip

[Will.iam]

8 minutes ago, PT20J said:

OK, I screwed this up. My conversation with Bob was about the 205, but somehow I got the 252 in my head when I made the post.

So to clarify: It is only the M20J 205 that has the higher partial flap speed.

Sorry for the confusion.

Skip

Boooo i was hoping i had an extra margin of speed buffer at partial flaps. Not that i would deploy them any faster but once i forgot to retract T/O flaps as i was climbing out and got over 112 before i caught the error and retracted them up. 

[FlyingScot]

On 11/28/2022 at 7:07 AM, Pinecone said:

When was that’s?

 

Disney World did this in the 80's. Hey, I enjoyed the shooting gallery! 

[hoot777]

Just flew an F. One place it says 105mph in another 125 like my G. What’s the story?  I heard it changed between 67 and 68. Was it a mod or just a pub correction ??

[Hank]

4 hours ago, hoot777 said:

Just flew an F. One place it says 105mph in another 125 like my G. What’s the story?  I heard it changed between 67 and 68. Was it a mod or just a pub correction ??

The hydraulic flaps, and hydraulic-era electric flaps I think, are all 105 mph. When they went all electric on flaps and gear (68? 69?), flap speed went to 125 mph. In addition to the activation, the whole mounting and support structure was changed.

[hoot777]

Here is my big question. I just help resurrect a 67 M20 F. It gives 105 mph as flap speed in one document and 125 mph in another. I have a 68 G and poh says 125 mph.  Did something change structurally between 67 and 68???  Look to hear fro the experts 

[hoot777]

Thanks Hank. Mine are hydraulic on my 68 with the 125mph POH speed. 

[Igor_U]

On 1/18/2025 at 5:03 AM, hoot777 said:

Here is my big question. I just help resurrect a 67 M20 F. It gives 105 mph as flap speed in one document and 125 mph in another. I have a 68 G and poh says 125 mph.  Did something change structurally between 67 and 68???  Look to hear fro the experts 

I never saw documents showing that 67F has two different Flap extension speeds, all should be 105 mph. You might saw at the 1968 module built in 1967; that should have 125mph.  I am quite certain that type certificate defines the speeds that way. The best way you can see the structural difference is to look at IPC for 67 and 68 (available in downloads section) and compare.  

 

Good luck

[DCarlton]

My '67F is 105.   I try to get well below that if I can.  Occasionally I wish it were higher.