Get the rating.

[bradp]

To all of my fellow VFR mooney pilots - just a thought in the new year.  Please consider getting an Instrument rating.  

I was flying from the RDU area to LYH today to pick up the little one who was at her grandparents.  En route I start to hear some chatter between the approach controller and a fellow mooney pilot...  the Mooney was stuck on top of an overcast layer.  Apparently he had been anticipating it would break up by the time he got towards his destination.  Apparently the flight was from Florida to Virginia and the overcast layer that the pilot was stuck above started in Georgia and the undercast started rising near RDU.  There were multiple transport jet reports of light and a couple of moderate icing in that layer.  Looking at the track this is the only reasonable interpretation for the climb to 9500 as the winds were stiff and the pilot gained 30kts on the nose with a ground speed of only 105 up there.  Ultimately the pilot made a VFR descent through the cloud layer to VMC conditions below. Never declared.  Both the RDU approach controllers, Washington center controllers and possibly down towards SC/ATL made queries to the GA and jet pilots in their areas to try to find a hole for this pilot.  

 

The layer was only a couple of thousand feet and there were great VMC conditions below, but a couple of small conditions changed and this could have had a much different and negative outcome.  I looked up the planes n number and it travels pretty far and wide on cross country flights from FL and TN to VA in the last couple of months - all of which were flown at +500 altitudes.  

 

So in this new year - if you are a private pilot and fly these Mooney planes like they are supposed to be flown (as long distance traveling machines), please consider getting the rating.  It could save your life. One day.  

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/krdu/KRDU-App2-Dec-31-2017-1800Z.mp3

Starts at about 7:30. (Edit)

[gsxrpilot]

ATC communication starts at about 7:30 on the clip... that's at about 10:30 remaining 

I couldn't agree more. I am not a professional pilot, nor have I ever been or will ever be. But I can't imagine owning an airplane such as my Mooney, without an Instrument rating. It just adds so much capability and safety to my flying. I truly believe adding an Instrument rating is like taking the training wheels off the Mooney.

And even if you never shoot an approach in Actual IMC, just the ability to climb through or descend through a layer opens up a whole new level of capability to our already very capable aircraft.

[RLCarter]

An Instrument Rating as Paul has stated above adds so much utility to your flying. Most VFR pilots only have the 3 hrs of "Hood" time that was required while getting their PPL and haven't practiced that since receiving their ticket. If nothing else grab a safety pilot on a VFR day or a CFII on an IFR day and get on those instruments, straight & level is better than nothing but climbs, descents, turns and air speed changes will be more beneficial. A friend with over 500hrs (the cocky zone) flew into a cloud late at night, he was at 10.5 and didn't regain control of the aircraft until 4K, I was really hoping this would convince him to get his IR rating but it hasn't yet

[Geoff]

I would also add that good Aeronautical Decision Making is key.  Just because the plane and pilot have the capability doesn't mean the mission is a go.  This gets down to personal risk management. 

 

However, I fully support the OPs position that an instrument rating and proficiency are great tools to add to your mooney. 

Fly safe.   

[jlunseth]

Yes, I agree, get the rating. But the fact the overcast was creating icing conditions says that the rating would not have been a big help.  That is the nightmare scenario for GA instrument pilots in the winter, at least those of us who do not have FIKI equipment.  Ascending through a layer that sits right at the altitude where all the approaches are charted so you have to sit in icing conditions for 15 minutes while you fly the approach.  Its a condition where the pilot should not ever have departed, and finding a VMC hole was the best solution, IFR rated or not.  

[sgrooves]

I was in that mess yesterday. Weather was not improving throughout the day as forecasts suggested- it got worse. Heard many VFR pilots on the radio in GA/FL/SC asking for help to be turned around and a couple who landed short of their destinations. Even with my IR, I had to descend from 9k to 5k to 3k to stay under the layers once temps got too low. Although I will say, it was nice riding high above the turbulence at 9k in/out of the tops for about an hour of my flight.


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[StevenL757]

Brad, can’t thank you enough for posting this.  Hopefully, this will resonate with everyone and that we will see far fewer instances of this going into 2018 and beyond.  Glad this situation turned out well, as I dread reading about those where the outcome was less-than-favorable.  Again, thanks.

Steve

[Yetti]

I have read the IFR book several times.   For the Flight Review this year he had me go shoot an approach under the hood.   First ever.   Seemed pretty straight forward.  He asked how I was doing it and I was flying it via the geo referenced approach plate on the phone that was sitting in my lap. It was more accurate than the glide slope.   Good skills to have.  Just keep flying the plane. Use all the tools at your disposal.      Later in the FR the proper functioning wing leveler made for easy work of the unusual attitude recovery.  The most surprising was the amount of push over needed for simulated engine out on climb out.   Always be ready to Push the nose over hard.  One day I will get the rating.

[SkyTrekker]

7 hours ago, bradp said:

So in this new year - if you are a private pilot and fly these Mooney planes like they are supposed to be flown (as long distance traveling machines), please consider getting the rating.  It could save your life. One da

My PPL Checkride is scheduled for February 28th, so I don't even have my VFR rating yet.  But we have started the "under the hood" training and I am really enjoying that. Either way, once I've finished my PPL and have enjoyed the freedom of being a full-fledged pilot for a few months, I'll be planning my IFR training timeline. 

I don't plan on looking for hard weather to fly in, or to push the envelope on risky situations, but having the experience and the ability to deal with unexpected weather when it arises is so worth it.  Not to mention, I really enjoy learning about flying and continuously working on becoming a better pilot.

-Sia

[Ftlausa]

I was also flying in the "mess" yesterday from AVL to FXE.  The weather was not as forecast, and was deteriorating.  Aircraft coming into AVL were picking up an inch or two of rime ice on the approach.  The bases were 4k and the tops were 7k.  I ended up taking off VFR to stay below the icing layer as the ceiling was high enough to get past the mountains south of AVL.  There were numerous reports of icing on the radio as we flew south through South Carolina.  Ended up opening my IFR in Georgia when the ceilings dropped below 3k, but stayed below the icing altitudes.  All that said, an instrument ticket was a must yesterday.   

Without question, unless you have no time restrictions and are an incredibly lucky person who only finds forecast weather when you fly, I think everyone doing serious cross country flying should get their IR.      

[Skates97]

I fly long trips VFR, SoCal to Utah, Idaho, and Arizona. No disrespect to the OP or anyone else that says an IR is a must, but depending on where you live, having a VFR rating does not mean you are still flying with the "training wheels on." Out west in the summer if it's IFR you are frequently looking at convective conditions and in the winter you are looking at icing. Just reading what the OP and others have posted on the conditions, that there were multiple reports of icing in the layer, tells me it wasn't the best decision to be on top regardless of  the pilots rating. Good planning before the mission, knowing when to scrap it, and also good execution in the air knowing when to divert is the key.

Like @Yetti above, I will one day get the rating. It is possible that will be this year but if not I will continue to fly conservatively, using all the tools at my disposal in the planning and flight stage. It's extremely valuable having the Metars for airports 300+ nm ahead of you on your route along with pireps while in the air. I used all the tools I had including calling a briefer at our fuel stop half-way to arrive safely at our destination in Idaho last summer when there were afternoon storms during an "Idaho Adventure". 

[RLCarter]

@SkyTrekker with a 70~80% dropout rate its awesome that you have pushed on. Part 61.65 spells out the requirements for the Instrument Rating, log 40 or so hours of x-country as PIC before you start your IR training (its needed anyway)because if your like most the next 40+ hours will be looking at the instrument panel. 

[Ftlausa]

8 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

I fly long trips VFR, SoCal to Utah, Idaho, and Arizona. No disrespect to the OP or anyone else that says an IR is a must, but depending on where you live, having a VFR rating does not mean you are still flying with the "training wheels on." Out west in the summer if it's IFR you are frequently looking at convective conditions and in the winter you are looking at icing. Just reading what the OP and others have posted on the conditions, that there were multiple reports of icing in the layer, tells me it wasn't the best decision to be on top regardless of  the pilots rating. Good planning before the mission, knowing when to scrap it, and also good execution in the air knowing when to divert is the key.

Like @Yetti above, I will one day get the rating. It is possible that will be this year but if not I will continue to fly conservatively, using all the tools at my disposal in the planning and flight stage. It's extremely valuable having the Metars for airports 300+ nm ahead of you on your route along with pireps while in the air. I used all the tools I had including calling a briefer at our fuel stop half-way to arrive safely at our destination in Idaho last summer when there were afternoon storms during an "Idaho Adventure". 

Richard, I agree the rating is not an absolute "must," as I and many, many others have flown cross country regularly without one.  But, I have encountered unforecast conditions too many times to believe that you count on even the best tools. 

Case in point, last year I flew into CRG for a hearing and found LIFR conditions upon arrival.  The forecast on takeoff an hour earlier was for severe clear.  Indeed, the whole north Florida area went IFR or low IFR unforecast.  I feel much better knowing that I can get into almost any airport at any time when I fly.  I have been stuck on top looking for a hole pre IR, and I did not enjoy that feeling at all.  But too each his own.    

[Yetti]

Should this situation be labeled "Do the planning better?"   How could this person not ended up on top looking for a way to get down?

[Skates97]

16 minutes ago, Ftlausa said:

Richard, I agree the rating is not an absolute "must," as I and many, many others have flown cross country regularly without one.  But, I have encountered unforecast conditions too many times to believe that you count on even the best tools. 

Case in point, last year I flew into CRG for a hearing and found LIFR conditions upon arrival.  The forecast on takeoff an hour earlier was for severe clear.  Indeed, the whole north Florida area went IFR or low IFR unforecast.  I feel much better knowing that I can get into almost any airport at any time when I fly.  I have been stuck on top looking for a hole pre IR, and I did not enjoy that feeling at all.  But too each his own.    

I understand what you are saying, but come fly out west, the weather systems are very different from what you have in the southeast. Somehow I managed to get in 140+ hours of safe VFR flight last year, most of it was long cross country. Of course I stay flexible so that I don't have to be somewhere at a specific time. 

11 minutes ago, Yetti said:

Should this situation be labeled "Do the planning better?"   How could this person not ended up on top looking for a way to get down?

Agree completely.

[Hank]

35 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Agreed. I've got about 1200 hours over the course of 25 years flying with the training wheels on and have still managed to get pretty darn good utility out of my Mooney.  Coast to coast but mostly flying in the Southeast. A man just has to know his limitations.

Thank you, little Clint.  

I had three years flying VFR, based in western WV, with many trips across the Appalachians to Georgia and the Carolinas. It mostly worked, but it's better with IFR. There is no magic bullet, though. 

[DVA]

By all means get the ifr rating, it makes you a better pilot in all conditions. But my opinion is that an IFR rating is not the answer to proper planning and risk management.

A PP “planning” vfr on top is as legal as a part 91 ifr pilot taking off in zero-zero conditions - neither is ever a good idea.


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[carusoam]

For the good of all, I think Richard should be mandated to start the IR raining, immediately...

I'm looking forward to the write ups and shared learning experiences that come with his training.  Great memory of fine details in his writing! 

 

Flying under the hood is a bit of a drag.  Very confining compared to the comfort of being in IMC, and being able to look unimpeded around the whole cockpit.  No accidental peeps that can get in the way of the training...

+1 on getting some of the training... practice the U-turn in actual IMC.  Descend through actual layers of IMC. Be familiar with reading and understanding Instrument procedures... Go on an actual IFR flight in IMC with another Mooney pilot. sit right seat, while a Mooney pilot gets in some practice approaches...  all fun stuff!

Don't forget to bring your CFII....

Happy New Year,

-a-

[RLCarter]

9 minutes ago, carusoam said:

No accidental peeps that can get in the way of the training...

I do a lot of safety piloting and I get a kick out of it when there is a x-wind and all the needles are centered and then they get a peek at the runway say 600ft agl or less, they will turn towards what they saw almost every time

[82Mike]

I think the real benefit of an IR is really it just makes you a better pilot.  I can’t comment on “out West” flying as I do most of mine in Southeast and Midwest, but having trained many pilots to their PP and IR I can tell you your a much better pilot after getting your IR.  As far as using it for hard IFR?  Single engine (normal aspiration) is usually ice in Winter and convective in Summer, but it sure is nice to be able to beak through a cloud layer.

[DXB]

Newbie observation. After finishing the written, I've spent 10 hours under the hood with a very capable CFII in the last 6 weeks.  I now find that flying headings and altitudes, climbs, turns, and descents are not so challenging.  But if I try  just one simultaneous task, like load a new waypoint into the GPS, decipher an approach plate, or even dial in a new frequency, I fixate on one instrument during the added task, and things start to come apart. The more complex the task, the worse the altitude and/or heading deviation. If I set the autopilot, which is what I'd typically do in the real world, the situation gets manageable again and I think ahead of the plane  better.

I'm guessing that I'm having the typical experience and just need tons of practice, but welcome any tips to get past this limitation.

[RLCarter]

5 minutes ago, DXB said:

Newbie observation. After finishing the written, I've spent 10 hours under the hood with a very capable CFII in the last 6 weeks.  I now find that flying headings and altitudes, climbs, turns, and descents are not so challenging.  But if I try  just one simultaneous task, like load a new waypoint into the GPS, decipher an approach plate, or even dial in a new frequency, I fixate on one instrument during the added task, and things start to come apart. The more complex the task, the worse the altitude and/or heading deviation. If I set the autopilot, which is what I'd typically do in the real world, the situation gets manageable again and I think ahead of the plane  better.

I'm guessing that I'm having the typical experience and just need tons of practice, but welcome any tips to get past this limitation.

trim is your friend, chances are too tight of grip on the yoke...it will all fall into place around the 20hr mark

[Andy95W]

3 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

trim is your friend, chances are too tight of grip on the yoke...it will all fall into place around the 20hr mark

I'll second that.  With practice it does get much easier.  

One thing I'll add is that you'll hear people talk about the instrument "scan".  It certainly is that, but the way you'll probably find it in the real world of flying is that it's a series of "glances".  Need to input a waypoint?  Glance at the GPS and move your hand to the knob.  Glance at the heading and altitude.  Glance back to the GPS, input one or two digits.  Glance at the heading and altitude. Input one or two digits, glance back to the heading and altitude.  And so on.

Good luck, Dev.  Keep us posted.

[DonMuncy]

17 minutes ago, 82Mike said:

I think the real benefit of an IR is really it just makes you a better pilot.  I can’t comment on “out West” flying as I do most of mine in Southeast and Midwest, but having trained many pilots to their PP and IR I can tell you your a much better pilot after getting your IR.  As far as using it for hard IFR?  Single engine (normal aspiration) is usually ice in Winter and convective in Summer, but it sure is nice to be able to beak through a cloud layer.

Mike, I agree in one sense. I am a better pilot than when I started my IFR training. But I have found a bunch of VFR only guys who are better pilots than I am. 

Sometimes these discussions sound like we IFR guys are "we are better than you, snobs". Those of us who have been through it, know it is a tough rating to get, and we are proud of it. But, although you can be a very good pilot without it, it will increase your flight options. It is expensive and difficult to get, and perhaps even more difficult to maintain currency, but just being able to punch up through a thin layer to make a trip you would have otherwise missed, makes it all worthwhile. If you have the time, money and are willing to expend the energy, I would encourage anyone to do so. I don't think have ever met an IFR rated person who thinks it was not worth the effort.

[carusoam]

Sense of timing is a tough one while multi-tasking...

Scanning instruments is pretty easy to recognize if you have slowed or stopped scanning...

Adding a waypoint into a flight plan... or putting an approach at the end of a flight plan... or deleting and entering a different approach...

You can see how much time can elapse without recognizing how long you are away from scanning...

Using a AP to solve the first challenge, you now have scanning the instruments just to make sure the AP is functioning properly... freeing up a lot more time to make changes in the flight plan...

 

Doing all this flying VOR to VOR and having the flight plan on paper... you get to build your multi-tasking/time skills to the highest level possible.  Which in turn, drives your desire to be very fluid with your GPS/AP skills... 

Pay attention to your time passing. All the time.  Through each phase of flight. Recognize when time is passing without being accounted for.

Its like Distraction 102...

PP thoughts only, not a CFII...

Best regards,

-a-