When to replace starter?

[rbridges]

45 minutes ago, ShuRugal said:

Mine does this about once every 4-5 starts.  Solved it by hosing the bendix gear down with TriFlow.

Is tri flow safe?  I actually have that in the hangar. 

[ShuRugal]

Just now, rbridges said:

Is tri flow safe?  I actually have that in the hangar. 

why would it not be?

[rbridges]

Just now, ShuRugal said:

why would it not be?

I'm asking out of ignorance. Just wasn't sure if you could use Teflon spray around anything electrical. 

[jetdriven]

The starter’s electrical, bur the motor and stuff it’s further back inside the case. The Bendix is all mechanical. The Triflow solvent evaporated to leave the Teflon behind. Much better than silicon spray for that thing. I’ve Sprayed mine regularly with it.

[rbridges]

Just now, jetdriven said:

The starter’s electrical, bur the motor and stuff it’s further back inside the case. The Bendix is all mechanical. The Triflow solvent evaporated to leave the Teflon behind. Much better than silicon spray for that thing. I’ve Sprayed mine regularly with it.

Thanks!

[Bartman]

My Skytec did that for a couple of years.  One day it suddenly died and left me stranded and had to drive 11 hours due to commitment the next day.  I had been spraying it occasionally, but the starter was over 10 years old.  I wondered in retrospect if I would have been money and time ahead by sending it for rebuild, if that is available.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, 201er said:

Are you serious? What is it? Shower of sparks?

Exactly! Buzz Buzz Buzz . . . .

[RobertGary1]

2 hours ago, Bartman said:

My Skytec did that for a couple of years.  One day it suddenly died and left me stranded and had to drive 11 hours due to commitment the next day.  I had been spraying it occasionally, but the starter was over 10 years old.  I wondered in retrospect if I would have been money and time ahead by sending it for rebuild, if that is available.

Totally worth it. I had similar (almost stuck in Mexico once). Sent back to skytec and they repaired it for $250 and also fixed some other stuff they found. Been great since going on 6 years. 

-Robert

[thinwing]

The other bendix failure is after engaging during the start it fails to disingage after the engine starts...thus the starter is now being driven by the engine

[RLCarter]

3 hours ago, thinwing said:

The other bendix failure is after engaging during the start it fails to disingage after the engine starts...thus the starter is now being driven by the engine

But not for long 

[RLCarter]

11 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

That’s interesting. Skytecs don’t have a bendix. I’m not sure what was going on for those of you who reported similar symptoms with your Skytecs, but it wasn’t your bendix sticking. 

Jim

So what engages to spin the engine?

Edited December 2, 2017 by RLCarter

[ArtVandelay]

Permanent magnets, apparently. 
Every time my cowling is off I spray the bendix down really well with carb cleaner and then dose it with silicone spray.  It still sticks occasionally but never after the second attempt.  None of this has changed in 11 years of operation.
If you are concerned about getting stuck with a sticking bendix “on the road”, one old trick is to very, very briefly hit the starter immediately after shutdown while the engine is still hot.  This will almost always reengage the bendix and it will remain that way until you are ready to restart.
Jim
 

I tried all the above tricks, almost got stuck at 54J, a nice mechanic came out with a screwdriver and unstuck the Bendix by force. I order a new starter the moment I got home.

[RobertGary1]

23 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

That’s interesting. Skytecs don’t have a bendix. I’m not sure what was going on for those of you who reported similar symptoms with your Skytecs, but it wasn’t your bendix sticking. 

Jim

My Skytec did similar at one point. When I sent it back they replaced something with an upgraded design. I think something in the engagement could eventually bend a bit.

 

-Robert

 

[Bartman]

2 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

My Skytec did similar at one point. When I sent it back they replaced something with an upgraded design. I think something in the engagement could eventually bend a bit.

 

-Robert

 

I bet that's what happened to mine. Before it failed the electric motor would spin, but not engage. When it failed it was obvious and totally different when I turned the key. It sounded really bad and the starter drive gear would not extend and engage the flywheel, but it was turning extremely slowly, like 5 RPM slow. 

[kpaul]

On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 4:26 AM, teejayevans said:

almost got stuck at 54J

When were you at Defuniak Springs?  That is where my and @thomas1142 planes are based.

[thomas1142]

On 12/2/2017 at 4:26 AM, teejayevans said:

I tried all the above tricks, almost got stuck at 54J, a nice mechanic came out with a screwdriver and unstuck the Bendix by force. I order a new starter the moment I got home.

Yup, great guys at Monarch Aviation!

[ArtVandelay]

When were you at Defuniak Springs?  That is where my and [mention=11738]thomas1142[/mention] planes are based.

I stopped there on my way back from Texas back in 2016, just a pit stop.
This is why I always stop at where there is on field maintenance as noted by airnav.

[kpaul]

6 hours ago, teejayevans said:

I stopped there on my way back from Texas back in 2016, just a pit stop.
This is why I always stop at where there is on field maintenance as noted by airnav.

Gotcha, I have my maintenance done by Eric at Monarch there on the field. In fact my plane is in his hangar for its annual.  There is also a really good avionics shop there as well.

[cliffy]

Since I'm too old to want to fight a stuck starter somewhere out on the road I replaced my Skytec with a new one after 17 years, Ya, it had been on there 17 years. It was 6 years old at the overhaul so it stayed on. They are rated at 2000 hrs , had 1600 on mine . Hartzell has a new program now if you send in your old Skytec they send you a new one at a great discount.

By far most of the time one has trouble with the "starter" it really is the battery telling you its done its job and is checking out. Either just a low change or a  bad cell.  First thing to try if lubing the starer nose doesn't solve the problem  is charge the battery and check it with a hydrometer. I'll bet 9 out of 10 starter problems I've worked on have been battery related and not the starter.

Cleaning and lubing the starter nose (bendix) should be a yearly routine especially in a dusty area. 

Starting the engine only uses about 2% of a good battery charge. If you can't start the engine with it it either has low charge or is about at the end of its life. Even if you can charge it (without checking capacity) you may not have enough stored in the battery to do you any good if your alternator takes a dump and you have to rely on the battery on the flight.  Starting the engine really has no bearing on how good your battery is. 

That is also the fallacy  of jump starting or proping a plane with a dead battery and then going right out on a flight. You ain't got nothing to fall back on electrically. 

[Bryan]

.

[jetdriven]

M20K has a starter adapter, picture a spring wound around a shaft.  Engaging the starter, turns the spring, which winds up around the shaft, grabs it, then turns the engine with it.  Those things wear and are expensive. Beechtalk has a few huge threads as well as one here started by George Perry. He paid like 2K for a rebuilt one, and it was slipping immediately and they refused to stand behind it.  This is one of those parts worth educating yourself heavily before spending 2-3-4 grand.

[Yetti]

The B&C starter suggested sending it back for a look after 2000 hours.  

[Josue]

On 11/30/2017 at 6:17 PM, rbridges said:

It's happened twice in the last handful of flights. Turn key and it sounds like it didn't "grab." Immediately turn key a second time and everything is normal. I just don't want to be left stranded and I don't know how fast they start going downhill. 

I hade similar characteristics. After 6 mo the stater need to be replace. Doing that today 12/28/2021. I put a higher torque starter in the $800 range plus labor. 
what do you guys expect the AP replacement time would be? 

[ArtVandelay]

I hade similar characteristics. After 6 mo the stater need to be replace. Doing that today 12/28/2021. I put a higher torque starter in the $800 range plus labor. 
what do you guys expect the AP replacement time would be? 

Mine lasted 5 years, probably ~500 starts.

[RobertGary1]

Personally after years of ownership I don’t mess around with starters. Been stuck in Mexico praying for a starter to engage. They’re not hard to R&R and personally thjnk it’s worth sending for a full overhaul. Same with cars. Starters often fail slowly before dead and you may regret ignoring a sign. Could likely get more time from it lubing but they don’t last forever.