Engine Monitor

[AH-1 Cobra Pilot]

I presently have a separate gauge for displaying, (one at a time), EGT, OAT, and CHT.  I am considering installing an engine monitor and have two questions for those on this forum.

1.  How much did it cost including installation?  (Please include brand, how many cylinders, functions, and any other pertinent data affecting cost.)

2.  What has it saved you?  (LOP is a whole different discussion.  What I have in mind here is, Did it preempt major maintenance/repairs?)

My dad has one on his T-210, and one time, while flying, we noticed an anomaly on one cylinder.  We checked the mags to find a bad plug, which we had fixed at the next fuel stop. 

BTW, I tried running LOP on my airplane the other day.  I was at 6500' on a relatively short flight, so my test was abbreviated, and I am also reluctant to test much without the engine monitor.  Going from 25^o ROP to 50^o LOP produced 149KIAS/9.5 gph to 140KIAS.8.5 gph.  6% airspeed drop for a 10.5% fuel consumption drop.  Is this a typical cost/benefit?

[Bob_Belville]

I install a JPI EDM 930 5 years ago so I'll let others who have installed the cheaper 900 (still primary) more recently speak to current cost. 

I'd say that your brief test is conservative as to the trade off of speed vs. fuel burn. I lose about 6% ktas (155 to 145) while reducing fuel flow by 22%. (10.5 to 8.2).

Subscribing to Savvy and doing their LOP Mag check will tell you a lot about the balance of your injectors and the overall condition of your engine. 

[markejackson02]

I have the very basic GEM (G-1).  It was about 1.500 installed.  I just like being able to see what is going on.  Given the South Texas heat you have to be able to see the CHT as they can easily go to 450 with cowl flaps closed if you're not paying attention.

If I had to do it again, I would get a G2 or G3 that can log data and could replace the older Hoskins fuel totalizer.

 

[kortopates]

How much it saves you will depend on how well you learn how to use it. But it could easily save your life if not at least save you from a risky off airport landing. With the monitor there is rarely an excuse to continue flying an engine till it seizes. Almost always there are plenty of signs to warn you that failure may be eminent if you don't take immediate action. And with knowledge of how to use it, you have a very good chance of saving your engine before it gets to that point. For example, I was flying across the country about mid-way at 10:30pm over the middle of Texas while we watched a slowly declining oil pressure; still in the green. Oil temperature was still normal, but as we were debating what to do about it and when, as it got closer to the top of the yellow arc we began to see fluctuations in the oil pressure. I recognized this as the oil pump cavitating  from too little oil in the sump. That was it, the reality of the situation was setting in (remember the CARE checklist?). Cruising at 17K, I had already surveyed towered airports with approaches and services within glide range of about 30nm and told ATC we were diverting to San Angelo because of a oil pressure issue. My wife was the pilot flying on this leg and she was the first to notice the issue. As the pilot not flying, I was working the radios and was talking to ATC. We had already pulled the power to near idle and gliding to the FAF for the approach I loaded and was asking ATC to clear us for our selected approach. With 2 pilots, and the marvels of modern GPS technology we were gliding into San Angelo on idle power and landing without incident. The following morning we diagnosed issue. Our turbo had been pumping oil over board and we were down to just a bit more than 2 quarts of oil; plenty sufficient that we have evaded any engine damage. If we had ignored all the signs with still 1.5 hrs to go to our planed destination we likely would have at least lost the engine and who know what our options would have been if we had not been monitoring our engine analyzer. 

As a CFI, I work with Mooney owners and with rental pilots at a flying club. Its interesting to me at least that most of the rental aircraft these days have a JPI engine analyzer so their owners can monitor their investments and virtually all have either a new GTN GPS or GNS W GPS. Because of the engine monitor, more and more new pilots are learning the importance using an engine analyzer to do a more thorough mag test before taking off. Of course it takes a CFI that understands this technology to teach to his/her students and what percentage do this I don't know. But just yesterday, we taxied back from the run-up area because the engine monitor showed the left mags #1 plug was cold, or not firing and we were unable to clear it after multiple attempts. For an owner, that save a lot of time which saves money knowing exactly which plug to go clean and test. And the light bulb goes on for the pilot in training on the usefulness of the monitor.  Consequently,  as analyzers become more universal in training aircraft I doubt many future pilots coming out of ab initio training will even have a question on the value or need for the analyzer; given a choice they won't want to go without it.

[RobertGary1]

Mine probably literally saved my life. Aside from finding a plug that was only failing only at full power climb out it is what alerted me to slowly rising oil temps and then dropping oil pressure before my engine failure. The flashing warning (mine is also hooked to my voice annunciator "check engine monitor'). If it had taken me 30 more seconds to notice the issue I wouldn't have landed on hard stuff.

 

-Robert

[madjano]

You can get a used EDM 700 with fuel flow and all the sensors for under 1AMU.  I installed mine during annual and would guess i probably had 6 hours in it. Just did egt and cht for now.  I had to upsize a circuit breaker, and drill egt's into my new risers  (pneumatic drill is a great time saver on this.)  I haven't done the fuel flow yet, as ran out of time to get hoses made.  Might be a little old school but it's what I learned on and it is a rock solid piece of equipment that can give you everything you need to know.

I ran 25F LOP on run to Michigan and was pleasantly surprised at the gas pump, like right under 10GPH for the whole trip.  I like to be up above 8000' when i do,  and hottest CHT was 330F. Doubt i will burn a cylinder at those temps, but would like to know FF so I could get the spread.  Running stock (well not GAMI's anyway) injectors.  

And it totally give you a lot of information on whats going on inside,  even watching the bars on run up can give you heads up on trouble ahead.  Reading Mike Busch helps translate all that.

[DonMuncy]

I diagnosed a clogged fuel injector in flight via my engine monitor. By telling the A&P where to look, I am sure I saved several hundred dollars in trouble shooting costs.

[KSMooniac]

My EDM 700 caught a dead plug at a fuel stop. It turned a potentially long troubleshooting step for a "rough engine at run-up" to knowing exactly which plug to replace. A 30 minute hiccup vs potential stranding.

I later upgraded to the EDM 900 ($3K for the kit) and did my own supervised installation. Worth every penny.

All airplanes with an engine should have one. And a pilot that knows how to use one!

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[Bob - S50]

We got the JPI EDM 730 about 4 years ago and added the fuel flow, oil pressure, oil temp, and OAT options.  We paid right around $3000 back then.

I too have used it to diagnose a clogged injector.  Told the mechanic which one to check and sure enough, that was it.

As for LOP, you might try closer to 20 - 30F LOP to get better performance.  I typically run with the richest cylinder just barely LOP, maybe 5 or 10F.  That results in my leanest cylinder being about 40 or 50F LOP and the other two about 20 or 30 LOP.  I typically see 150 KTAS on about 8.8 GPH at higher altitudes.  At around 7000' I usually see about 157 KTAS on 9.2 GPH when just barely LOP.

[RobertGary1]

29 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

I diagnosed a clogged fuel injector in flight via my engine monitor. By telling the A&P where to look, I am sure I saved several hundred dollars in trouble shooting costs.

That's a good point. After my engine failure my new engine had a slightly plugged injector. Had i not had the monitor I wouldn't have known and would have run that cylinder far too hot. I was running 200F hotter egt. A simple soak fixed it 

-Robert

[jaylw314]

3 hours ago, Ah-1 Cobra Pilot said:

I presently have a separate gauge for displaying, (one at a time), EGT, OAT, and CHT.  I am considering installing an engine monitor and have two questions for those on this forum.

1.  How much did it cost including installation?  (Please include brand, how many cylinders, functions, and any other pertinent data affecting cost.)

2.  What has it saved you?  (LOP is a whole different discussion.  What I have in mind here is, Did it preempt major maintenance/repairs?)

My dad has one on his T-210, and one time, while flying, we noticed an anomaly on one cylinder.  We checked the mags to find a bad plug, which we had fixed at the next fuel stop. 

BTW, I tried running LOP on my airplane the other day.  I was at 6500' on a relatively short flight, so my test was abbreviated, and I am also reluctant to test much without the engine monitor.  Going from 25^o ROP to 50^o LOP produced 149KIAS/9.5 gph to 140KIAS.8.5 gph.  6% airspeed drop for a 10.5% fuel consumption drop.  Is this a typical cost/benefit?

I've found plugs a few times that were lead fouled.  Having the engine monitor lets you easily identify which specific plug is fouled, saving you the time it takes to pull all of them or a trip to the shop.  No major stuff but not minor either.

Your LOP numbers don't sound too far off.  Your fuel flow is consistent with 65% power, so you should be ok leaning to any setting, as long as you don't have one rogue injector richer than the others. 

[gsxrpilot]

I'll agree with everything said in this thread. I personally wouldn't own a Mooney without an engine monitor. The benefits as have been stated, are...

1. Better/quicker information of a problem developing - could save your life.
2. Better data leads to much quicker/cheaper troubleshooting of problems.
3. ROP/LOP operations safer with better data - longer engine life, TBO, etc.
4. Accurate Fuel Flow allows for safer/longer range without tankering fuel.

Any of those reasons are more than enough to justify the cost for me. 

So which one do you get? The cheapest option would be a used EDM-700 off Barnstormers or Ebay. But assuming you'll buy new, here are the only reasonable options.

1. Insight G2 - Cheapest option - same price as the JPI EDM700 and the EI UGP-16, but with a modern full color screen, best data logging of any monitor, includes all the important options such as fuel flow at no extra cost.
2. JPI EDM-900 - Cheapest Primary replacement for all engine instruments. 
3. EI MVP-50 - Top of the line, best large screen, most options, flexible configuration, best tech support.

The install costs could vary wildly. I installed the G2 in my M20C and did all the work myself with an inspection and sign off by an A&P - $200. I had the EDM-900 installed recently in my 252 and SWTA charged me for 20 hours. But I know it took at least twice that amount of time.

[AH-1 Cobra Pilot]

UGH!  I just got a quote from a local shop to install a JPI 730 for a total of about $6600.  $3600 labor, $445 tax, etc.  We are over 1500 from recommended TBO, so lots of life before we replace the engine, too.

All the comments above have convinced me I should have one, but there is also the need to replace the GX-60 with a GTN-650/equivalent and add ADSB-out.  Maybe all at once in another year or so...

When do you estimate shop schedules will get tight with ADSB work prior to the 2020 deadline?

[KSMooniac]

I've read several articles that say there is already not enough shop capacity to install ADS-B equipment in the fleet before the deadline. Perhaps that might be alleviated slightly with the advent of new products like Garmin's new box that just needs a power and antenna connection that can be done by any A&P.

Engine monitor installation isn't difficult, just tedious. If you're DIY-inclined, it is a great opportunity to add some sweat equity if you have a good relationship with a mechanic or shop. Installation for a primary replacement, like the EDM-900 or similar, can easily run over 40 hours for an experienced installer, or 50+ in my case.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[Hank]

7 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

I've read several articles that say there is already not enough shop capacity to install ADS-B equipment in the fleet before the deadline. Perhaps that might be alleviated slightly with the advent of new products like Garmin's new box that just needs a power and antenna connection that can be done by any A&P.

 

ADS-B install capacity shortfall for the GA fleet will be further alleviated by thise of us who have nomintention to install anything . . . Just promise to look out your windows from time to time to see me, and not be like the guy I read about yesterday who took evasive action for a target on his ipad that he never saw out the window . . .

[jaylw314]

On 10/10/2017 at 8:34 AM, KSMooniac said:

I've read several articles that say there is already not enough shop capacity to install ADS-B equipment in the fleet before the deadline. Perhaps that might be alleviated slightly with the advent of new products like Garmin's new box that just needs a power and antenna connection that can be done by any A&P.

A lot of the ADS-B stuff is being done at avionics shops, so the impact won't all be on regular shops.

[Marauder]

Just now, jaylw314 said:

A lot of the ADS-B stuff is being done at avionics shops, so the impact won't all be on regular shops.

I wonder how long that will last. Many avionics shops are quoting start dates into the 2nd quarter of next year. If these A&P installable options become readily available, I suspect the repair shops will start a backlog as well. 

The new wingtip one is appealing to the Flight school on my field. Suspect others on a tight budget or are hardcore CBs will follow this path. 

[Andy95W]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

 If these A&P installable options become readily available, I suspect the repair shops will start a backlog as well. 

The A&P installable options have been available for quite some time, such as the FreeFlight and Navworx units.  I installed an inexpensive FreeFlight RANGR Lite last year.

And it works great.  GDL-39 displays all traffic and weather on my Garmin Aera and iPad.