Anything you wish you would have known?

[gitmo234]

Alright folks, it's that time for me. I wasn't able to arrange delivery of my M20E. I'm okay with that because this weekend I'm flying out to Oklahoma to pick her up and fly her with my CFI back to Maryland. During the travel there and the 7 hour flight the next day I'm also accomplishing my BFR and Complex sign off. I'm transitioning from a '56 C172, which is hugely different. A windshield the size of a football field and a panel the size of a calculator. Now I'm switching it a bit.

I'm going to learn a lot during the flight home, but my question is if anyone has anything they wish they would have known prior to transition? Any lessons or things you wish someone would have told you? Other than that my CFI has said to just read the manual as homework, we have 24 hours together so we will cover everything else during that time.

[TonyK]

I wish I had known how important speed control was when I bought my F.  I came out of a baby beech where you could point it at the ground with the flaps out and actually slow down (maybe a bit of a stretch).  My F does not suffer fools anywhere near as nicely.  The other thing was the documentation like the Owners Manual.  Mine may have started off looking like the OM in 1974 but a lot has changed with the airplane which has made much of the documentation more of a suggested starting place for research  than something to be taken a fact.  Blue skies and tailwinds for your return home.

[Hank]

Yes, speed control is key! Learn the MP / RPM settings for pattern entry (flaps up and flaps down), and if you are Instrument rated, for approach speed clean and dirty as well as standard climbs and descents.

Every knot of extra speed over the numbers caused 100' of extra float before touchdown [source: Bob Kromer, former Mooney test pilot and President of Engineering, Mooney Aircraft Corp.]. Learn to control your airspeed within a couple of knots.

[gitmo234]

Good info from both. My old Cessna was incredibly forgiving, so precision will be new. Especially with MP/RPM settings. I've only ever had to manage RPM and mixture, so the third knob will be new to me

[Oldguy]

Heat kills engines.Your Mooney will have its own favorite amount of oil to carry in the sump. Many of the Lycoming 360's say fill to 8 qts. and they then spit out 1-2. My planes "happy place" is 6 qts. It goes from 8 to 6 in about 8 hours and from 6 to 5.5 in the next 10 hours. Corollary: If your new plane does not have an engine monitor, save your money to get one.

Other thing to know: when and where the next MAPA PPP you can attend will be held. Transition training is a great undergraduate degree in flying your Mooney, and the MAPA PPP is the graduate work. You come away from there more confident in what you and your plane can do.

Read the manual on every piece of avionics in your plane, especially if it (the avionics) is new to you.

Have fun flying your new plane!

[Yetti]

That it probably wasn't airworthy (although just being signed off on annual) and we should have probably not been flying it.   But other than that it was a fun flight and the Instructor was good at what he does.

[Skates97]

41 minutes ago, Hank said:

Yes, speed control is key! Learn the MP / RPM settings for pattern entry (flaps up and flaps down), and if you are Instrument rated, for approach speed clean and dirty as well as standard climbs and descents.

Every knot of extra speed over the numbers caused 100' of extra float before touchdown [source: Bob Kromer, former Mooney test pilot and President of Engineering, Mooney Aircraft Corp.]. Learn to control your airspeed within a couple of knots.

As others have said, slow down and for me it was slow down early until I got a better feel for how long it would take me to slow down. Almost 100 hours into flying my Mooney and I am much better about arriving at pattern altitude at pattern speed without spending 2-3 miles before the pattern at pattern speed...

[smccray]

2 things stick out from my transition training-

1) I transitioned with ~90 hrs with a high time former F15 pilot doing my training.  My first flight I was completely overwhelmed at just how much faster everything happened compared to the 172 I trained in.  At one point, out of respect for him, I stopped flying deferring to him.  I was very sternly corrected- no matter what, never stop flying the airplane, and never forget that I'm responsible for the flight no matter what.  No matter how experienced the guy next to me, or no matter what ATC might ask me to do, if I'm not comfortable I'm not doing it.  It's a lesson I haven't forgotten.

2) The Mooney (I assume the E is the same as my J) will get really mushy on the controls, but it won't fall out of the sky at 100 kias.  Slow down early- especially on your first couple of flights.  Pull the power back and slow down- "we love to fly fast" but that's a recipe for disaster if you're not ahead of the plane.  I was completely overwhelmed at just how fast everything happens and I didn't slow down early enough.  In reality you have plenty of time, and remember #1- never stop flying, and if you get too far behind go around, or even fly away from the airport and start all over.

[Skates97]

37 minutes ago, pstone said:

When trying to slow down to gear extension speed, (if you are having a hard time slowing down) pitch up to lose speed then drop the gear at the appropriate airspeed.  Once the gear is down, it is easier to descend.

Pat

On a straight in I typically put the gear out at a five mile final. I will go a little below the glide-slope at that point specifically to nose up and bleed some speed and get my gear down. With the Johnson Bar I'm stuck with 120mph for gear extension and it doesn't want to fly that slow if it is clean and in just about any kind of a descent (even a shallow one).

[211º]

Good advice above.  I'll add the following...

1. When in cruise, fly with one hand on the yoke and one hand on the trim for a little while - small changes to the trim until it is perfect.  Nothing like flying a perfectly trimmed Mooney.

2. Compared to the 172, the Mooney excels at taking advantage of the extra 2% TAS every 1,000 feet.  Going high pays huge dividends.

3. Evening flights at 22"/2400 and 2,500 feet are my therapy.  The engine is purring at less than 65%, so leaning until rough works - its fun to see less than 6.5 gph in a Mooney.

4. Hearing protection - QT Technologies is my favorite - even over Active Noise Reduction - filter both the highs and lows. 

5. At some point, nearly drain one of the tanks, then fill in 5-gallon increments and mark it off on your own dip stick.  It's great to have that knowledge. (oh and make the stick about 2-feet long and mark both ends so that you'll be able to see the wet line when you pull it out of the second tank).

6. Always close the baggage door right after you get out what you need (then re-open it to put it back), never leave a fuel cap on the wing just to walk the fueler back, and never set anything down on the left wing (at least on the right wing, you'll probably see it before you take off).

And simply have fun, my E fits my mission so very well - four seats, but mostly use just one, great mph and gph, and it's my own personal time-machine.

[Jim Peace]

7 hours ago, gitmo234 said:

 During the travel there and the 7 hour flight the next day

Don't drink anything a few hours before flight and very little until the day is done.......

[Skates97]

8 minutes ago, Jim Peace said:

Don't drink anything a few hours before flight and very little until the day is done.......

It is a delicate balance between staying hydrated, but not too hydrated...

[gitmo234]

I did 10 hours one day, crawling along in my 172 at >8k feet, never been so dehydrated an exhausted.

[ArtVandelay]

1 hour ago, 211º said:

Good advice above.  I'll add the following...

1. When in cruise, fly with one hand on the yoke and one hand on the trim for a little while - small changes to the trim until it is perfect.  Nothing like flying a perfectly trimmed Mooney.

If your AP has trouble holding constant altitude, it may be because you're too perfect, adjust trim slightly either way.

[Drumstick]

She will descend or slow down but not both at the same time.

[Yetti]

That it will take you about 75 hours to get comfortable in the new to you airplane.    We have all been there.  They are fun to fly what I imagine it would be like to fly a fighter airplane.

[Drumstick]

Just now, Yetti said:

That it will take you about 75 hours to get comfortable in the new to you airplane.    We have all been there.  They are fun to fly what I imagine it would be like to fly a fighter airplane.

Not even close to a fighter but definitely more challenging than a 172!    In many ways, the modern fighters are actually easier to fly because of all the control augmentation.  They have to be made easy to fly so the pilot can manage the weapon systems.  I find managing an engine with a fixed pitch prop, throttle and mixture much more tedious than any turbine aircraft I have ever flown.

[HRM]

9 hours ago, gitmo234 said:

I'm going to learn a lot during the flight home, but my question is if anyone has anything they wish they would have known prior to transition? Any lessons or things you wish someone would have told you? Other than that my CFI has said to just read the manual as homework, we have 24 hours together so we will cover everything else during that time.

Nothing for me. My 10 hour insurance sentence was some of the best flying of my life. I could not get enough of my E and still feel that way every time I take off in her.

Enjoy the moment, savor the flights and let the CFI worry about the details and answer all your questions.

[moontownMooney]

I and a good friend are both 150 hr pilots that just got into a 1968 M20F about a month ago.  I've flown more in the last month, in my new Mooney, than in the last 10 yrs but all of my prior work was in either Cessnas or Piper low wings.

1)  The Mooney loves to fly high.  With the stability provided by the PC system  and the performance of the aircraft (and ambient temperature comfort) improving with altitude, get it up to 8k or 10k feet for your long flight.  It is sooo steady and peaceful.

2)  Don't be intimidated by the prop control.  there can be a lot of debate on the topic, but it can be as simple as full forward for takeoff, then adjust back to 2600 RPM and leave it there until you are in the pattern preparing to land, and then you put it full forward again in preparation for potential go-around.  Aside from that just fly with throttle like you normally would. More varied or sophisticated approaches to engine control settings can wait until you are more comfortable. 

3) Being new to aircraft ownership, I'm coming up to speed on how much everything costs, but it still irks me when people give advice along the lines of "you'll want to spend the [several thousand dollars] to get/upgrade [whatever]".  With that said, if you don't have an engine monitor, it would be the first thing I would recommend looking at whenever you are prepared to do some upgrades.  If you do have one, read that manual too.  It is hugely valuable.

4) As others have mentioned, the aircraft calls for 6-8 quarts of oil.  In our experience, anything above 6 quickly gets donated to the clouds.

5)  Things will feel like they are happening CRAZY fast in the pattern when you first get started, you WILL get more comfortable with it.  In the mean time, so long as you get to gear and flaps down and 90mph by somewhere on your base leg, you will be set up just fine for your landing.

5)  Landings...   I will say up front that my lessons were learned having to figure out how to consistently get the plane into our home airport which is a 2000 ft grass strip.  Landing is super easy, but it is quite different than in other aircraft and it can take some getting used to.  You cannot pull back into/approaching the stall to bleed off speed and gently plop onto the runway like you can in many Pipers and Cessnas.  The Mooney stalls at a shallower pitch attitude, doesn't bleed speed as effectively at high AoA's, will pop up out of ground effect easily, and when it stalls, does so more abruptly.  As everyone says, speed is key.  You should try to fly your entire final approach at 80mph, until you transition into ground effect.  Your base leg should be approximately 90mph.  When you are first getting started in the Mooney, if you are going faster than 90 mph as you are starting your base to final turn, you may want to go ahead and plan for a go around.  Its not an attitude of "oh I should try to be at 80mph on final" it is "I'm getting to 80mph shortly after turning final or I don't get to land".  Compared to other common GA aircraft, I think a smooth Mooney landing is flown with a much more constant pitch attitude and essentially controlled with throttle.  On final, if you are low and slow it is easy enough to add power.  If you are high, pull throttle all the way back (~7" MP), and slow to 80mph, the aircraft can descend quite quickly at this speed with low power and full flaps.  As you approach the glide path you want, add a smidge of power back in, but be prepared to pull power all the way out again as you cross the threshold (assuming you are at reasonable altitude and 80 mph).  From that point you essentially fly the plane onto the runway.  Don't get the nose more than a few degrees above the horizon, just hold power out, and let it settle through ground effect and gently touch down.  My instructor actually had me put grease pen / china marker lines on the windshield to indicate the upper and lower bounds of the horizon in my site picture as I am in ground effect and touching down.  The upper line represents the horizon at level attitude and is drawn while sitting on the taxiway.  The lower line represents the horizon in a slightly pitch up attitude and is drawn while doing a ~75mph low power descent in landing configuration (obviously you do this exercise to draw the line at a higher altitude).  The remarkable thing you will notice is that the resulting two lines are only about 1-1.5 inches apart!  This gets back to the point that during the ground effect and touchdown, you cannot play with the plane's attitude very much, you have to just pull power, fly straight and let it settle.  If you can do your initial training to land on a MUCH longer runway (~5000 ft or more) it will eliminate the urge to try to force the plane down, and you will learn proper technique more quickly.  Also, as others stated, in cruise flight the Mooney is rock-solid stable.  It starts to feel a little softer as you slow down to 80mph in the pattern which can feel quite disconcerting at first.  I recommend doing some slow flight work at altitude to get more comfortable with this sensation prior to getting into your landing training.  You may want to make your patterns just a little bigger than you are used to in the common Cessnas and Pipers due to the performance differences; just gives you more time to get things right (50% further out is probably an upper bound on this). So here is pattern procedure...   (a) 17"MP or less once you get to pattern altitude,  (b) get partial flaps (1/2, take-off, etc.) and gear down as soon as you are stabilized at altitude and below respective V-speeds,  (c) abeam the numbers, 15" MP or less trim for100 mph, (d) upon turning base, 13" MP or less trim for 90 mph, full flaps, (e) upon turning final, pull power all the way out (unless you are low or slow which is less common), trim for 80 mph, add power back in as required to set glide slope.  A slight nose down attitude is okay, but only to the extent that you can keep your speed in the 80-85mph range.   As you cross the threshold at appropriate altitude and speed, pull power all the way out, pull up to fly level into ground effect, pull up ever so slightly to no more than a few degrees pitch up and let the plane settle to the ground.

Sorry this was so long, but I just went through all of this myself in the last few weeks, so the topic is near and dear to me.  I will say that after 10 landings I was still struggling, but by 20 landings I felt way more confident and was way more consistent than I had ever been in the Cessnas or Pipers.

Best of luck, I'm confident you will love your Mooney!

[Tx_Aggie]

Speed control on approach and final. Don't be ashamed to go around if you're a little too fast and half way down the runway. Unlike the 172, in Mooneys, it's very common to keep gliding down the runway in ground effect with the throttle all the way out for too long a period of time. NEVER push the nose down if you're bouncing down the runway on landing. When your main gear hits or bounces just keep a constant back pressure on the yoke and smoothly keep it held back. The plane will straighten out and you'll recover the landing nicely. 

 

After you get confident with the take off and landing procedures and build confidence in the plane, take it on up to 10-11k feet. You'll get great speeds at half the fuel burn of those  continental drivers!

[carusoam]

Expect to spend a day learning the T/O and landing of the new plane.  Unfortunately this isn't conducive to a long cross country...

A day for one pilot may be four hours.  Training while exhausted = wasted money...

It is amazing how much you learn in one day.  Still can't get the landings perfected...?  Try again the next morning after a really good sleep.  Everything comes together neatly...

You will learn as much about yourself as you will about the airplane...

Best regards,

-a-

[gitmo234]

Awesome advice everyone. I'm a bit nervous just because I'm used to a far, far more forgiving airframe and I haven't flown in a year due to my absence but I'm really excited to get back up in the air, especially with a mooney.

[gsxrpilot]

14 minutes ago, gitmo234 said:

Awesome advice everyone. I'm a bit nervous just because I'm used to a far, far more forgiving airframe and I haven't flown in a year due to my absence but I'm really excited to get back up in the air, especially with a mooney.

You'll be surprised that after just a very few hours, all other light piston singles will seem very clumsy. Don't worry about it, the short body Mooneys are plenty easy to fly.

[Bart Chilcott]

I have an E also and I've owned it for about a year and a half and I have logged almost 200 hours in that short time.  Like others have stated, learn to control your speed and plan your descents.  I came from flying (plowing) around in a 172 and wasn't used to thinking so far ahead of the airplane.  If you have a G430, use the descent planning page to help you get to your target altitude for the pattern.  You can set it up for the rate of descent you want and it will remind you when you should start to descend.   I set mine up to hit pattern altitude 4 miles out at 500 fpm.  It helps as a handy reminder especially when flying cross country at high altitudes into unfamiliar fields.  I live in Wichita KS.  (35 miles north of Oklahoma).  What part of Oklahoma are you going to?

[MHemperly]

Speed control and trim the airplane all the way to the ground and hold it off as long as possible (runway length permitting) 

also descending... plan way ahead or you won't get it slowed down