Charlotte North Carolina help

[Mxracer56]

Hello. 

This is my first time posting on here so I wanted to say hello. A little bit about me, I am a new pilot with 60 hours. I will be getting my complex rating in a few weeks. I have always liked the looks of the mooney. My current instructor is not a mooney fan and has tried to steer me more towards the arrows. He claims that the back seat is very uncomfortable in the mooney. This is where I need the help. I have never sat let alone flown in one. Is there anyone in the Charlotte area that would let me come look and sit in theirs? 

Thanks Steve

[AlexLev]

Oh man. My wife prefers the backseat to the front seat. I first sat in the backseat during Oshkosh last year. It's a little tight, but not any tighter than the footspace you get on a basic non first class airline flight. 

Mooney's are awesome planes. I'd definitely be happy to have you sit in mine if I lived near Charlotte! I'm sure someone will help you out.

[N6758N]

Try @Bob_Belville, he lives in Morganton which isn't too far from Charlotte. He has an E which is a short body, meaning it has the least back seat room of all types of Mooneys.

[gsxrpilot]

@Mxracer56, I thought you said you're the pilot? The pilot doesn't sit in the back seat! It's rare, but sometimes you'll have so many people going along, that one or two will have to sit in the back, but it won't be you. And those that are sitting in the back, typically aren't paying for the airplane and thus are just happy to be along. Secondly, my experience as a new pilot was that none of my friends were running to the front of the line to go flying with me anyway. They would say something about talking to them after I had "experience"?

Seriously though, leg room in the back seat is directly related to the height of the person in the front seat. Myself, at 5'10" leaves plenty of room in behind my seat (in my M20C) for an average sized adult. My wife in the right seat leaves even more legroom behind her seat.

Don't choose your first plane based on the back seat that will likely be more under-utilized than you expect.

Basically you've just got your drivers license and are looking at Porsches, but your Drivers-Ed teacher is trying to steer you towards a Corolla. Get the Porsche.

[Bartman]

34 minutes ago, Mxracer56 said:

My current instructor is not a mooney fan and has tried to steer me more towards the arrows. He claims that the back seat is very uncomfortable in the mooney.

Thanks Steve

Piper makes a good airplane no doubt. I trained in 140 and Warrior, and then used an Archer in a flying club. Like Paul said, after my primary training the only person who would fly with me in the beginning was my wife so the back seat was just for luggage. I bought the Mooney because our mission was travel, not training sightseeing or laps around the pattern. Since then I have had 4 adults on numerous occasions. In my J model I can manage 2 hour hops with 4 adults and a small amount of luggage, and did this from KY to New Orleans not once but twice in 2012. Still, over 95% of my flights have been either me and the wife, or solo to work and back  

Choose your aircraft based on the mission and your capabilities, not what someone says is gospel. 

Edited July 20, 2017 by Bartman

[Mxracer56]

Gsxrpilot. You are absolutely right. I will not be using the back seat personally but it's still nice to be comfortable that way I don't listen to complaining. Haha. I want to travel which is why I like the mooney, it seems to be the best speed and fuel burn combination. 

[PMcClure]

Depends on the model of Mooney. My ovation has lots of room. And the F and J aren't bad either. Never had a complaint from anyone on either position (front or back). The back seat is a little hard to get in and out of for older people. 

[merrja]

I'm at Rock Hill- UZA and happy to help.  PM me and we'll arrange a time

[Bob_Belville]

40 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

@Mxracer56, I thought you said you're the pilot? The pilot doesn't sit in the back seat! It's rare, but sometimes you'll have so many people going along, that one or two will have to sit in the back, but it won't be you. And those that are sitting in the back, typically aren't paying for the airplane and thus are just happy to be along. Secondly, my experience as a new pilot was that none of my friends were running to the front of the line to go flying with me anyway. They would say something about talking to them after I had "experience"?

Seriously though, leg room in the back seat is directly related to the height of the person in the front seat. Myself, at 5'10" leaves plenty of room in behind my seat (in my M20C) for an average sized adult. My wife in the right seat leaves even more legroom behind her seat.

Don't choose your first plane based on the back seat that will likely be more under-utilized than you expect.

Basically you've just got your drivers license and are looking at Porsches, but your Drivers-Ed teacher is trying to steer you towards a Corolla. Get the Porsche.

Yep, I've yet to have a complaint from some lucky stiff who got to ride in my short bodied E model. (The video is of a non stop flight to SunNFun and the guy taking pics from the back seat is a 6 footer who somehow survived a 4 plus hour flight  in the back seat. He and his instructor rode with me, their Piper would have taken over 6 hours with a fuel stop.)

 

[Johnnybgoode]

I'm in Waxhaw and have one in Lancaster, if you want to see it sometime.

Patrick

[Marcopolo]

Mx,

 

  I have a K model (mid-body) at Lincolnton Regional, PM me and we can get you a look see. (after Oshkosh:>)

 

Ron

[rbridges]

I think the C and E models will be comparable to the early arrows before the fuselage stretch ('72 ish maybe?).  The F and G models will probably compare well to the post stretch fuselage--you gain another 5 inches of leg room.  I flew a '67 cherokee 180 for a while, and it seemed just as cramped as my mooney in the back.  

[chrixxer]

46 minutes ago, rbridges said:

I think the C and E models will be comparable to the early arrows before the fuselage stretch ('72 ish maybe?).  The F and G models will probably compare well to the post stretch fuselage--you gain another 5 inches of leg room.  I flew a '67 cherokee 180 for a while, and it seemed just as cramped as my mooney in the back.  

Can confirm, the early Cherokees and Arrows (pre-'72) are about as cramped in the back as my E-model Mooney (smallest of the Mooney M20s). I have 50.2 hours in a Piper Arrow II and 49.0 hours in M20 Mooneys (a few training hours in an M20B and the rest in my new-to-me M20E). I'd rather fly the Mooney than the Arrow any day (obviously). The back seat is big enough to hold my two full sized (45# and 65#) dogs. Stuck an adult man in the back for a short hop and he had no complaints. It's not as big as the Arrow back seat (or the Cirrus), but it's serviceable. I wish the back seats were removable, but that's a minor quibble. 

Up front, you'll be surprised how roomy it is. 500# (ish) of adult men side by side for two full days of flying (KSTS -> KFTW -> KMAF, then KMAF -> KTUS -> KMYF -> KSMO) and it was fine.

Look at your mission profile. I've been doing this flying thing since November 2015 (PPL), I have 367.3 hours across 244 flights, I've had rear seat passengers a total of three times. If I really need a four person plane (or roomy-ish 3 place), I can always rent. The rest of the time, I'm cruising at 150+ knots TAS on ~9 gallons an hour and loving life. You don't get that in an Arrow.

[sgrooves]

If you're looking at mid-size models, I'm in Charlotte and have an M20J at Concord. Got it last year when I was about 60 hrs in as well. Out of town now but would be happy to show you when I'm back.

Also, what @chrixxer said, I've had someone in my back seat three times. Otherwise, its where my 80# dog sits. 

[rbridges]

3 hours ago, Mxracer56 said:

Gsxrpilot. You are absolutely right. I will not be using the back seat personally but it's still nice to be comfortable that way I don't listen to complaining. Haha. I want to travel which is why I like the mooney, it seems to be the best speed and fuel burn combination. 

definitely.  you won't find a better combination of speed and fuel burn except with experimental aircraft.  

[Mxracer56]

Thank you everyone for the quick responses. I am 5'10. I know most of my time will be with maybe one other person. The other times will probably be my parents and my mom is only 5' so it should be fine. 

[chrixxer]

2 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

rear seat legroom is directly proportional to the height of the front seat occupants and therefore how far they have to slide the front seats back.  At 6'4" there is practically no legroom behind my seat when I fl

2 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

rear seat legroom is directly proportional to the height of the front seat occupants and therefore how far they have to slide the front seats back.  At 6'4" there is practically no legroom behind my seat when I fly our C

Well, inseam more than height. Maybe I'm odd (physically; we've already established the other ), but I'm 6'2" and have a 32" inseam. (Or at least, my jeans are all 33/32 or 34/32 size. FWIW.) Most of my height is in my torso. (Shirts never stay tucked...) My seat is actually up pretty far, and I have a comfortable amount of headroom. The Mooney is kinda like a TARDIS. Everyone who thinks they're super-tight hasn't spent much, if any, time in one. My instructor (flew a Cherokee Six and instructed in PA28-140s) was like, "they're small," and didn't believe me when I pointed out they're actually wider than the Cherokee. 

[mccdeuce]

If a CFI is steering away from any brand get a new cfi. 

 

Their Job is to teach you to fly not tell you which airplane fits your needs. I personally like Grummans and Mooneys. 

Edited July 21, 2017 by mccdeuce
I can't spell

[TonyK]

Words from a 20 something year old CFI.  If you stall brand X you will die. If you are hot on brand C you will die.  Don't get that because you will die.  Get this.  My take on it is that if they were so damn hard to fly there wouldn't be so many of them out there.  Buy the airplane that suits you and your mission and learn to fly it properly.  That is unless you buy a Cessna and then if you leave the ground you will die!

[Mxracer56]

To better answer the height question I have a 30 inseam. I am also long in the torso. In a 172n I have to put the seat as low as it will go to be comfortable. 

[chrixxer]

4 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

I will say this, in my old Cherokee with "bow tie" yokes, I  remember specifically having to consciously pull my rear end back into the seat and having to sit up straight in the seat prior to landing so that my legs would not get in the way of full aileron deflection. 

That has never been an issue in any Mooney; the C included. 

Jim

Might have something to do with what constitutes full deflection...  Mooney controls require just a bit less travel  

[carusoam]

Human bodies haven't changed in length very much in 50 years...

Mooney's come in three lengths...

• Short body
• Mid body
• Long Body

If the back seater is your financial advisor, make sure she has all the space she desires.  

 

The back seaters are challenged by two things...

•  Pilot leg length.  30" doesn't seem to be a challenge.  (May want rudder pedal extensions)
• Pilot girth. Some space may be needed for full control extension. 

 

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

[FloridaMan]

I know several Mooney pilots who are over 6' tall, myself included. I have flown in the backseat of M20J's and K's and have no issue with a 32" inseam. I don't think the backseat of anything before an F would be comfortable for me. I've had four adults in my plane with partial fuel without issue. You'll be a good 20kts faster in the Mooney than you will in the Arrow. That's 10% better fuel economy and 10% more distance traveled between engine overhauls, not to mention, with 6 hours of fuel (if you have 64 gallon tanks), that gives you another hour of endurance over the Arrow, which can save you from having to make a fuel stop, and, if you realize you're going slower than expected, give you many more options in range at your faster speeds to stop and fuel or spend the night. 

[carolinaflying]

Own a 1968 M20C based at UZA. Possibly parked next to Merrja, small world! I'll be out Friday afternoon and will PM you my cell if you are interested.