Mooney Stigmas

[Raptor05121]

I was just over on the Piper forum, a guy is comparing a 200hp Arrow to an M20F and out came the bashing. It wouldn't be complete without the standard "Mooney parts are expensive" claim.

I called him out on it. The "expensive/rare" parts claims are almost always made by people who have never owned one. I can't think of one part that I've replaced on my plane that doesnt have an equally-priced Piper equivalent. Sigh....

[Godfather]

2 hours ago, Raptor05121 said:

I was just over on the Piper forum, a guy is comparing a 200hp Arrow to an M20F and out came the bashing.

Not surprising and very similar responses would be displayed here about the other brands.  All planes can get expensive quick and the ones that brag the most about how cheap it is have not been in the game long enough. 

[Guest]

Is there a CB club on the Piper Forum? 

Clarence

 

[cbarry]

It seems most bashing episodes are really episodes of relative envy.  

[wrench]

Some things are seemingly expensive like a new fuel selector for a "J" $2000.00+. This single instance of a cost example easily grows into "Mooney parts are expensive" but what counts is total ownership cost and speed trades like less time in the air because you are 40 knots faster than a Cherokee 180 or a Cessna 172 on the same fuel burn. As said earlier you can find expensive parts on all makes.

[Marauder]

6 hours ago, Raptor05121 said:

I was just over on the Piper forum, a guy is comparing a 200hp Arrow to an M20F and out came the bashing. It wouldn't be complete without the standard "Mooney parts are expensive" claim.

I called him out on it. The "expensive/rare" parts claims are almost always made by people who have never owned one. I can't think of one part that I've replaced on my plane that doesnt have an equally-priced Piper equivalent. Sigh....

You are a glutton for punishment.  If I ever ended up on a Piper site, I would just remind them that every Piper Arrow, Cherokee, Warrior, etc. that I heard land sounds like a tin can being kicked down the runway. That usually shuts them up. 

[Shadrach]

6 hours ago, Raptor05121 said:

I was just over on the Piper forum, a guy is comparing a 200hp Arrow to an M20F and out came the bashing. It wouldn't be complete without the standard "Mooney parts are expensive" claim.

I called him out on it. The "expensive/rare" parts claims are almost always made by people who have never owned one. I can't think of one part that I've replaced on my plane that doesnt have an equally-priced Piper equivalent. Sigh....

I have found that all manufacturers have certain parts that are priced beyond what seem reasonable. It's a weird market that can go from scarcity to surplus and vice versa on just a few units.  

Arrow guys are not huge fans of Mooney guys. My uncle has a partnership in a Turbo Arrow. It has almost nothing on my F save for it's ability to burn more gas and generate more heat. Perhaps above 10k it would start to walk away. I don't see the appeal. 

[Dave Colangelo]

I have been shopping for a C/E for some time now (still waiting for the right plane and the right point in life...). I did all my training in Archers and Warriors which of course had me looking at those as well. I have spoken to a lot of owners of both and have settled on pretty much getting a C/E over an archer in almost every regard. What I will say on the whole debate, 

Comparisons are the best, as such, Mooney owners are somewhat like the Vintage Porsche owners I have encountered over the years. Die hard fans of a quality product who will accept a little more complication in the product for some downstream benefits. Lots of handling myths, none of which seem to ever be true, and lets be honest, better looks. On the other hand piper owners tend to be more akin to those that drive a classic mustang. Overbearing "PARTS ARE CHEAP AND SO ARE REPAIRS" chants draws in no frills no spills owners who are attracted to simplicity and overly benign designs. Handling is what it is because transverse leaf springs are ya know, still a thing....  

After talking with lots of owners, and has been mentioned here, each plane has their own expensive parts. Many often forget the vast majority of the Mooney's are retracts while the Archer and Dakota from Piper are not but often are compared to the C/E models. 

Like anywhere else the Myths seem to be drenched in false facts and just lack of knowledge. There are just not as many Mooney's out there and thus fewer Mooney Pilots to defend the birds. Mix that in with the fact that most pilots get their first taste of flying in a Cessna or Piper and shenanigans debates will surely ensue based on blind loyalty. The overwhelming feeling I have gotten from here is that Mooney's are just as expensive to own as an Arrow, a Dakota or even a nice Archer and even have lower list prices in many cases. Then of course 135Kts on under 10GPH is just a cherry on top of it all...

 

Regards

Dave 

[Yetti]

I cannot fit in a Piper.  It's too small.  Not Yetti friendly.  Sat in a 235 and tried several others.  does not fit so the brand is dead to me.

[mooniac15u]

2 minutes ago, Yetti said:

I cannot fit in a Piper.  It's too small.  Not Yetti friendly.  Sat in a 235 and tried several others.  does not fit so the brand is dead to me.

I'm only 6'5" and I found the same thing to be true.  I've flown right seat in several Cherokees and a Comanche and with my feet on the rudder pedals my legs interfered with the yoke.  I haven't been in an Arrow so I can't speak to that.

[Oldguy]

10 minutes ago, mooniac15u said:

I'm only 6'5" and I found the same thing to be true.  I've flown right seat in several Cherokees and a Comanche and with my feet on the rudder pedals my legs interfered with the yoke.  I haven't been in an Arrow so I can't speak to that.

Ditto. Both on the 6'5" and the yoke interference.

But the funniest was the C150 where I could firewall the throttle with my knee.

[FloridaMan]

8 hours ago, Raptor05121 said:

I was just over on the Piper forum, a guy is comparing a 200hp Arrow to an M20F and out came the bashing. It wouldn't be complete without the standard "Mooney parts are expensive" claim.

I called him out on it. The "expensive/rare" parts claims are almost always made by people who have never owned one. I can't think of one part that I've replaced on my plane that doesnt have an equally-priced Piper equivalent. Sigh....

Spinner bulkhead for an M20F with a LoPresti cowl. $2000+

Though you get 40% more miles traveled for the same engine time, so there's that. 

Edited March 2, 2017 by Antares

[EricJ]

My current ride while searching for a Mooney is a rental 200hp Arrow.   I call it the Sky Potato because it is bland, predictable, sorta sweet, reliable but generally unremarkable, a little misshapen and glides like a potato when the gear is down.   Some of those attributes are genuinely good, naturally.  I could definitely see owning one if you didn't mind not going overly fast or high, but I'm usually just annoyed by how much less efficient it is than it could be.   They are super easy to fly, the emergency gear mechanism is dirt simple and effective, but otherwise the electro-hydraulic gear just seems way overly complicated for such an otherwise simple airplane.

I'm 6' even and don't have a lot of headroom in it, but get less interference between my legs and the yoke than I do in a C172.

They are nice enough airplanes that I can easily see an owner getting passionate on a forum, but it's a little apples and oranges comparing one to a Mooney despite having essentially the same engine.   Potato wing vs Mooney wing is night and day.

[Hank]

Two words will chill the soul of a Piper retract owner, but are meaningless to us Mooney folks:  gear transmission.  We ain't got one . . . and the Vintage birds don't have the infamous backspring in the gear motor, either.

[Guest]

I'd add, seldom has a Piper been scrapped because it's steel gage rotted out(I'm supplying parts to one now) or its wing spars corroded away, or its fuel tanks started pissing fuel everywhere, I've repaired one Piper tank in more than 30 years.

It's overly complex gear isn't driven by a $1000 spring, with gears that wear out and jamb the gear, it uses $5.00 worth of O rings and a quart of hydraulic oil every 5 years not $1200 worth of rubber every 5-10 years.

Clarence

[Guitarmaster]

I'd add, seldom has a Piper been scrapped because it's steel gage rotted out(I'm supplying parts to one now) or its wing spars corroded away, or its fuel tanks started pissing fuel everywhere, I've repaired one Piper tank in more than 30 years.
It's overly complex gear isn't driven by a $1000 spring, with gears that wear out and jamb the gear, it uses $5.00 worth of O rings and a quart of hydraulic oil every 5 years not $1200 worth of rubber every 5-10 years.
Clarence

Hey! I like the fact that I can spew Fuel and corrosion dust everywhere when I fly!!

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[Guest]

You're 100% right, however some people seem to be blind and ignore reality.  No airframe is perfect, including Mooney.

Clarence

[Raptor05121]

10 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

Well done for defending us.  

My reply is down below.

I do love my M, but I do remember my roots in Pipers and will always love them. I will defend them, for what they are: a low-parts-count airplane designed to fly the masses.

 

7 hours ago, mooniac15u said:

 and with my feet on the rudder pedals my legs interfered with the yoke. 

 

 

7 hours ago, Oldguy said:

Ditto. Both on the 6'5" and the yoke interference.

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

 or my legs would interfere with full yoke movement.   

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, EricJ said:

 

but get less interference between my legs and the yoke than I do in a C172.

 

 

 

A good point exactly. There is no leg room in a Cherokee. I feel like I am stuck in a box where you are crouched down. I love that I can slide the seat back and stretch my legs.

 

42 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

You're 100% right, however some people seem to be blind and ignore reality.  No airframe is perfect, including Mooney.

Clarence

 

 

Exactly. There are a lot of things about the Mooney I wish could've been changed, but alas.

[Bryan1016]

Rode in a 180 Arrow one time.
That thing flew like a wind sock.


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[dlthig]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

I'd add, seldom has a Piper been scrapped because it's steel gage rotted out(I'm supplying parts to one now) or its wing spars corroded away, or its fuel tanks started pissing fuel everywhere, I've repaired one Piper tank in more than 30 years.

It's overly complex gear isn't driven by a $1000 spring, with gears that wear out and jamb the gear, it uses $5.00 worth of O rings and a quart of hydraulic oil every 5 years not $1200 worth of rubber every 5-10 years.

Clarence

Clarence,

     I dearly love Comanches, but I am concerned about MX. From what I've been told I'd expect about 3Kish for a M20 or about 5Kish for a PA24.

[Tommy]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

You're 100% right, however some people seem to be blind and ignore reality.  No airframe is perfect, including Mooney.

Clarence

But we are close if not the closest! 

[BradB]

1 minute ago, Tommy said:

But we are close if not the closest! 

Maybe all of us airplane guys can agree on one thing - boats are an expensive pain in the ass and no one in their right mind would buy one. 

[201er]

What the Mooney out-costs on parts gets saved on the fuel so overall costs are a wash. But the Mooney gets there quicker! 

[Alan Fox]

7 minutes ago, 201er said:

What the Mooney out-costs on parts gets saved on the fuel so overall costs are a wash. But the Mooney gets there quicker! 

For some people its about flying , not how fast they can get there ...... Imagine that , Flying ????????

[Alan Fox]

7 hours ago, Hank said:

Two words will chill the soul of a Piper retract owner, but are meaningless to us Mooney folks:  gear transmission.  We ain't got one . . . and the Vintage birds don't have the infamous backspring in the gear motor, either.

Wrong , every Mooney with electric gear has a gear transmission , and they break , and parts are scarce...... No Cherokee with the exception of Commanches have gear transmissions..... They use pumps and cylinders.....

Edited March 3, 2017 by Alan Fox