Wing Damaged by Shop

[PTK]

Maybe I missed something but why are you talking to your insurance carrier. This is not damage you caused, right?

Don't accept less than a proper repair including reskin from a reputable shop!

 

[hnorber]

Thanks again to everyone!  One additional question (for now) - does anyone here have any experience with Byerly Aviation in Peoria, IL?  They are an authorized Mooney Service Center, and I might look to see if they're a good option for the repair work.  I have a regular mechanic closer to where the plane is located now, but he may not have the capacity to handle this work anytime soon (i.e., he estimates he wouldn't finish before March - maybe that'll be the case for any shop).

 

[hnorber]

I'm only talking to my insurance carrier to help me think through options right now.  I wanted to make them aware, and let them know that it could be a potential claim under my policy only if the responsible party doesn't have the assets (or insurance) to cover the repairs.

 

[bonal]

1 hour ago, PTK said:

Maybe I missed something but why are you talking to your insurance carrier. This is not damage you caused, right?

Don't accept less than a proper repair including reskin from a reputable shop!

 

Agreed 

[INA201]

Was it the shops tug that hit it? +1 for new skin

[donkaye]

2 hours ago, hnorber said:

I'm only talking to my insurance carrier to help me think through options right now.  I wanted to make them aware, and let them know that it could be a potential claim under my policy only if the responsible party doesn't have the assets (or insurance) to cover the repairs.

 

 

58 minutes ago, bonal said:

Agreed 

I'm going to make the assumption that if the shop has insurance they are going to want to minimize the repair.  This is a situation where you should have your insurance company handle the whole thing.  The repair will definitely get done quicker.  Let the insurance companies fight it out later.  You shouldn't have to deal with this.  That is why you have insurance.  This should not count against you, since you were not at fault.  I would not settle on anything less than a complete reskin to bring the airplane up to the standard it was before the mishap.

I was at a homecoming in Kerrville some years back when a twin Baron slipped over my wing when leaving his parking space. He luckily only damaged the nav light fence and some minor scraping.  My insurance company handled everything.  So should yours.

[LANCECASPER]

28 minutes ago, donkaye said:

 

I'm going to make the assumption that if the shop has insurance they are going to want to minimize the repair.  This is a situation where you should have your insurance company handle the whole thing.  The repair will definitely get done quicker.  Let the insurance companies fight it out later.  You shouldn't have to deal with this.  That is why you have insurance.  This should not count against you, since you were not at fault.  I would not settle on anything less than a complete reskin to bring the airplane up to the standard it was before the mishap.

I was at a homecoming in Kerrville some years back when a twin Baron slipped over my wing when leaving his parking space. He luckily only damaged the nav light fence and some minor scraping.  My insurance company handled everything.  So should yours.

Agree 100%.

You pay for your company to indemnify you (guarantee to make you whole again should something happen). They will pay and then subrogate (recover from the shop's insurance company). New skin would be the only option I would accept. 

[Bravoman]

And make sure the shops carrier is put on notice asap. I wouldn't under any circumstances let the shop who did it perform the repair. And as mentioned above, make sure you recover for diminution in value above and beyond what your repair itself involves.

[rocketman]

DId you mention they wanted to bondo the leading edge? OMG NO WAY. Reskin the thing, get lots of pictures, make sure someone other then your shop does the work even if you have to get a ferry permit, take to to an MSC that has a good reputation on fixing these things, adjust for damage history, be involved, express frustration and talk to their insurance agency directly, You need to see either through pictures or directly if there is any damage to the underlying skins. And BTW, how come they do not know what happened to the airplane? Make sure the repaired wing does not leaf after repair and if you want to be abundantly cautious take it to Paul Beck in WIlmar MN to inspect it. Get your insurance company involved to be sure your doing the right things, stay informed and connected. Don't accept anything short of this. And always remember, document everything in the logs and get OMG parts from Mooney, not salvage. Your the pilot here, not them. Keep up informed on whats going on. 

[rocketman]

Forgot to mention, their insurance company will pay to have your plane flown to another facility usually anywhere in the USA so if you feel uncomfortable, let someone else do the flying

[Andy95W]

I'm really hoping M20Doc adds his input to this thread.

Any thoughts, Clarence?

[jetdriven]

3 hours ago, donkaye said:

 

I'm going to make the assumption that if the shop has insurance they are going to want to minimize the repair.  This is a situation where you should have your insurance company handle the whole thing.  The repair will definitely get done quicker.  Let the insurance companies fight it out later.  You shouldn't have to deal with this.  That is why you have insurance.  This should not count against you, since you were not at fault.  I would not settle on anything less than a complete reskin to bring the airplane up to the standard it was before the mishap.

I was at a homecoming in Kerrville some years back when a twin Baron slipped over my wing when leaving his parking space. He luckily only damaged the nav light fence and some minor scraping.  My insurance company handled everything.  So should yours.

I agree with you, Don, but in real life that is a claim and it does count against you. We had a minor claim and since then, only 2 insurance companies will quote us. They told us an act of god was not our fault, but after we notified them it was a different story.

Personally I'd ask the Mooney engineering department what a proper repair is, and then notify the shop's insurance company that is what I want, plus adequate compensation for a comparable aircraft while it is out of service. 

[cliffy]

With that much replacement of the leading edge I'd sure investigate the stall characteristics after the repair. The leading edge is the prime motivator of the stall pattern on the wing.  You might want to contact Mooney Engineering to get their input on testing the stall after it is finished as any repairs you do will never replicate the original LE profile exactly.  The stall will change. 

[Guest]

The wing can be repaired with a hammer and bonds, only to ferry it to a shop for correct repairs.

Removing the damaged section and replacing with a flush patch is an option, but as you are not responsible for the damage you should only accept new Mooney skins installed by a shop who specialize in this type of repair.  I don't know who to suggest in your area. Williams Airmotive in Indiana my be an asset.

As to contacting your insurance company, you may need to have them pay for the claim and settle with the shop's insurance if they are unwilling to cover your damages, plane and financially.

Clarence

[MB65E]

Williams is great!! They will most likely need the old skin to use as a template. 

Matt

[Loogie]

This may seem obvious, but if the pitot tube was hit, make sure it works before getting it airborne on the way to a repair station.

[bonal]

1 hour ago, Loogie said:

This may seem obvious, but if the pitot tube was hit, make sure it works before getting it airborne on the way to a repair station.

the second thing I do as we start down the runway is check and say ASI is alive. As for involvement of your insurance they could call it a claim and make things difficult rather than convenient but that's just the skeptic in me. Regardless its a crappy situation I hope it works out to YOUR satisfaction.

[donkaye]

Let's say your insurance company does call it a claim. That's what you have insurance for.  To do this job right is going to be very expensive.  I predict in the $40,000 to $50,000 range for 3 skins.  I remember when Top Gun had to replace a wing on a TLS.  It was about $110,000 from the factory for the wing alone, and that was 15 years ago.

 

[peevee]

17 minutes ago, donkaye said:

 I predict in the $40,000 to $50,000 range for 3 skins.

 

Wow!

[bonal]

It's not the OP's fault this happened and if he gets his rates increased due to this that isn't right and if he then feels like he wants to change carriers because his rate went up that's not right either. Regardless like I said this is a crap situation I hope it works out.

[mike_elliott]

5 hours ago, M20Doc said:

The wing can be repaired with a hammer and bonds, only to ferry it to a shop for correct repairs.

Removing the damaged section and replacing with a flush patch is an option, but as you are not responsible for the damage you should only accept new Mooney skins installed by a shop who specialize in this type of repair.  I don't know who to suggest in your area. Williams Airmotive in Indiana my be an asset.

As to contacting your insurance company, you may need to have them pay for the claim and settle with the shop's insurance if they are unwilling to cover your damages, plane and financially.

Clarence

+1 on Williams airmotive in Kendallville, In.

[hnorber]

Again - I can't thank everyone enough for all of the thoughts/advice.  This is all extremely helpful!

One quick question to the folks that are recommending Williams in Kendallville - do you think that's a better option than an authorized Mooney Service Center? If so, why?

Also - does anyone have experience with Poplar Grove Airmotive in IL?   I've done some work with them in the past and have been really pleased.  I might consider them if I'm venturing beyond authorized Mooney Service Centers.

[N601RX]

I would look for someone with good sheetmetal skills and structural repair experience more so that what authorizations they have.  There are a some Service centers who have guys who can change the skins and you will not be able to distinguish which panels were changed.  There are also other service centers who would likely make a complete mess of it.  Not all good engine guys are good sheet metal guys and not all good sheetmetal guys know much about engines.  Getting the seams to lay down flat and setting several hundred rivets in a difficult to reach place without dimpling the skin with the rivet gun requires a unique skillset.

[mike_elliott]

2 hours ago, hnorber said:

Again - I can't thank everyone enough for all of the thoughts/advice.  This is all extremely helpful!

One quick question to the folks that are recommending Williams in Kendallville - do you think that's a better option than an authorized Mooney Service Center? If so, why?

Also - does anyone have experience with Poplar Grove Airmotive in IL?   I've done some work with them in the past and have been really pleased.  I might consider them if I'm venturing beyond authorized Mooney Service Centers.

Williams Airmotive is an aircraft sheet metal specialty shop. I don't believe they are located on an airport, but do know they can get you fixed up. They don't do annuals, build engines, change tires, sell corrosion treatments, etc, they just do aircraft sheet metal, like what you need. It might pay to speak with them.

http://www.airframecomponents.com/index.php

 

[jclemens]

I don't know if Williams Airmotive will do on aircraft repairs, but if they will, rest assured it will be of the highest quality.  They specialize in repairing flaps, ailerons, wings, etc.  Generally you send them your part and they fix it.  I just shipped a King Air flap to them last week.  The wing on a Mooney is one piece so it will be kind of hard to remove for shipping, so it will need to be done on the plane.  Replacing that skin is not a monumental task for a qualified person.  Working the dent out from the inside is only a viable option if the original contour can be obtained and there are no creases or cracks in the skin.  After the repair this would be need to be confirmed with an eddy current inspection.  Filling it is not an option.  I would only advocate replacing the skin.  Oh yeah, we are a Mooney Service Center.