Multileg IFR planning

[MooneyBob]

Here is the question for experienced multileg IFR drivers.

Let's say I want to fly from NJ to Daytona FL with the fuel stop in Savannah GA. How do you file?

Do you file all legs ( two in this case) before you take off with estimated time of departure for second leg based on time you need to refuel and rest a little or you file each leg before you take off from the place you have stopped? Is there any other way to so that?

Thanks.

[Bob_Belville]

I often fly 2 leg flights. I file each leg separately using Fltplan.com. Your plan for each leg gets file 2 hours before proposed departure and remains in the system for 2 hours from the proposed departure time so even if you experience some delays your 2nd leg plan should be available when you're ready. One of the nice features of Fltplan is that you can receive emails on your smart phone, one confirming that your plan has been filed, and a second one providing probable routing. I fly from NC to MA so it is common for my routing to get changed around DCA, NYC.  

[Hank]

File both at once, with a common full-length weather briefing. Make your best guess about departure timing for the second leg.

Open the first one, fly, land, fuel, eat, etc. Update weather and open the second one. It's supposed to be ready to go from 30 minutes before to 2 hours after the filed departure time. If you can't hit the 2-1/2 hour window, call and change it. Easy easy.

Have a good flight.

P.S.--I've not been to SAV in the last 2 or 3 years, but gas was > $7/gal then. On my way home from SAV, I stopped in Barnwell, SC and saved over $2/gal and used their nicely air conditioned crew car to eat lunch. Don't recall the identifier for Barnwell, but it has 3 runways in a triangle, took me ~30 min to get there heading more or less NNW.

[GeorgePerry]

With a good app like fore flight or garmin pilot, as long as you have cell service, it takes less than a minute to file follow on legs. So I file the next leg at my intermediate stop.

If weather is an issue then it makes sense to do this. Get another close look at the weather and a fresh DUATS brief on file with big brother (faa). Briefing is good for two hours prior, but the closer you are to the "actual" takeoff time the more accurate the weather forecast will likely be.

No cell coverage is a different story. Ill usually fille all my legs at once before taking off and just account for turn around time at inetrmidiate landing sites.

As for getting weather updates, I hardly ever talk with a FSS briefer. I cant stand the long drawn out one way conversation. Listening to a FSS briefer go on and on about nonapplicable information that doesn't help inform the go/nogo/go a different way decision isnt helpful.

 

I don't want to be too hard on Lockheed Martin Flight Service.  They are doing a really good job updating their briefings for the internet age and actually just launched a new website that's pretty good.  (www.1800wxbrief.com) I go online and look for four weather related pieces of info. If any of them is a showstopper then I can stop right there.

1. Iceing
2. Thunderstorms / Convective activity
3. Ceilings and visibility (enroute diverts, destination and alternate)
4. Turbulence

If any of these things is bad then theres no need to waist anymore time planning. Assuming the "big-4" are OK then ill dig into the details of weather, NOTAMS, and TFRs along with destination airport and approach info.

 

The pictures are screen shots from 1800wxbrief.com of an hypothetical X/C from Frederick MD to Raleigh NC.  The LM site is a good one stop shop for weather, notams, and TFR's.  And your information is recorded so it's an "official" brief that satisfies "most" of the requirements of FAR 91.103 

[laytonl]

I load all of my flights into fltplan.com, sometimes a months worth of flights with estimated times. On multi leg flights I just call up fltplan.com my cell phone and file the appropriate leg (updating the ETD if necessary). Occasionally I will do what others have said and file both legs of a two leg flight if I know the turn around time is minimal. Lee

[BigTex]

I was on a tour last week of Fort Worth Center and that exact question came up.  All the Center controllers in attendance said that their preference would be for everyone to file separate flight plans for each leg.

[Cruiser]

I file one leg at a time. When I land, I call FSS and file the next leg. This allows me to change routes without having something already in the system. It is quick and easy. FSS verifies my flight plan is filed. 

[carusoam]

+1 Fltplan.com

filing two legs and getting confirmation of route by old cell phone text technology...

It's been a few years since I used it. Consider my opinion as aged info...

Best regards,

-a-

[Danb]

'George ,Hank and Bob are spot on...I would just add based on wx to request and give Pireps there are not enough of us who do this...winter time icing I feel the need to see who what and where the hazards are.....this often helps in decision making if you encounter icing to go up or down....

[Don Scorese]

Bob,

Being from NJ also I have flown the NJ to FL route a few times. I usually stop at KCPC, which is about 30 miles north of Grand Strand in Myrtle Beach. They have some of the lowest fuel prices usually, and a crew car to get some lunch. Fly V1 just about the entire trip, and KCPC is right around the half way point to central FL.

But to answer your original question, I file one leg, then when refueling use my phone and Duats mobile to file the next leg, this way I am under no time constraints when I land. Duats mobile has an autoroute function and it will email that route to you. Very easy.

[Bob_Belville]

I used to use CSC DUATS but when there was some issue about whether the Feds were going to continue to subsidize some of the DUATS services I looked around for alternatives. I found FLTPLAN.COM and like it much better. As Lee points out it is easy to put in your future flights as long in advance as you'd like. Then, generally the night before, visit the fltplan site, update and changes to departure time and mark the flight(s) for automatic filing. This can be  done far in advance but will not be sent to ATC until 2 hours before departure so changes are possible until then. Weather briefings are really easy since you can select to be briefed on multi legs at once. You can select how much info you want to see, etc. Fltplan has lots of additional services, electronic logbooks, airport guides, fuel prices, etc. Pretty slick.

[ArtVandelay]

Bob,

But to answer your original question, I file one leg, then when refueling use my phone and Duats mobile to file the next leg, this way I am under no time constraints when I land. Duats mobile has an autoroute function and it will email that route to you. Very easy.

The problem with that is if you want to make a quick stop, you have to wait at least 30 minutes for the plan to make it through the system

[Cruiser]

The problem with that is if you want to make a quick stop, you have to wait at least 30 minutes for the plan to make it through the system

Not any more, when you talk with FSS, the flight plan is available almost instantly.

[midlifeflyer]

I have done them both ways. If I'm pretty sure it's going to be just fuel and a bathroom break, I'll estimate my next departure since flight plans are held long enough to account for most extensions. 

 

But that's rare on a long tirp. Mostly I will want to stop and at least have a lunch-break. Most often while I may plan the next leg and save it well in advance, I will typically wait to file it until I have a better idea of when I might take off. The EFB and online apps I use for this all have the capability to file a saved well within 1 minute (more like less than 30 seconds), so it's the method I use more often.

[Bob_Belville]

Another trick, you can file optional fuel stops. I can get from KMRN to New England going to the west of DCA and fuel @ KLNS or I can go over JFK and fuel along the VA/MD/NJ shore. I'll have both on file and let the weather decide.

[DrBill]

I file all at once but I'm SURE that my departure from the stop will be ON or  AFTER my planned time.   Say I'm going from CLT to PBI (West palm beach) with a stop in DAY(Datona).  I expect to leave CLT at 0800 and file as such.  Then a 2:30 min flight to DAY, 30 mins for gas and P break and off at 11am.. I'll file my 2nd leg to be off at 1050. Too many times the second leg is not activated because I'm a few minutes early and ATC has to go look for it.

One trip in my Beech I stopped at St Augustine for cheap gas.  As I taxied toward the fuel depot I told the tower I'll be right back after fill up and relief and he said.. " 30S, want to copy your  clearance for the next leg now ? Then your're ready to go when you check back?".  I did and when I got back in I just said "tower, this is 30S ready for IFR departure".  And within minutes I was off !

 

BILL

[1964-M20E]

A fellow pilot and I were just discussing this on Wednesday.  I have not had the need to do this yet but I would just file 2 flight plans with a little time between each leg.  The range and speed of our aircraft we can cover a large distance in a single leg.

[flyboy0681]

I always file two separate flight plans and estimate my second departure as best I could. In the event I'm running late or decide to change altitude or route, Garmin Pilot allows you to amend the plan and send it off to the Center.

[Z W]

I always file from my Android tablet using Garmin Pilot shortly before I start my pre-flight.  If I'm at a fuel stop, I file it right after I pay for the gas.  I select the departure time as 15 minutes from now.  ATC always has it when I radio, by the time I preflight / sump fuel / load up / start the engine.

 

Eliminates the need to ever call and "edit" the plan for departure time or re-routing.  And I always get the latest up-to-the-minute weather and notams, which I review before I file.  I realize that a flight plan made 3 hours prior is probably still good, but I feel better with an update right before departure.