What would you do?

[Cruiser]

It seems that many times I run into an issue while flying that I just don't know quite what to do. Hopefully all the experienced pilots here  can offer insight to these questions and help me be a better pilot in the future.

 

So, here goes..... What would you do?

 

IFR flight in contact with Approach controller. Assigned Direct KFDK, descend to 3000' as I was nearing Frederick, the controller tells me the airport is 12 o'clock and 10 miles, report airport in sight. I could not see the field so I responded with my N #. The frequency then became very, very busy with the controller issuing rapid fire instruction to a number of other aircraft. As I crossed the last ridge at about eight miles out, I spotted the airport and waited for a chance to report. It was hectic on the radio, the controller still talking constantly, I finally got a break and reported the airport in sight, but got no respond from him. I slowed down and prepared for the visual approach, still maintaining 3000' direct to the airport which is a Class D towered field. At six miles out I got a chance to report again, still no response. So what would you do?

[201er]

If your clearance limit was the airport, then continue to the airport and land. That's what IFR lost com procedures are for. Monitor/contact tower on com2 if able.

[bnicolette]

I would've contacted KFDK tower and then just had the tower let approach control know they were controlling you now.

[Marauder]

I had a similar situation happen to me like this. I did what Brett suggested and contacted the tower. I didn't feel good about the situation and filed a NASA form. Nothing ever came out of it.

[mooniac15u]

If your clearance limit was the airport, then continue to the airport and land. That's what IFR lost com procedures are for. Monitor/contact tower on com2 if able.

 

I don't think there are any lost com procedures inside the Washington DC ADIZ.  Two-way communication with ATC is required at all times.

 

I took the online course required to operate in the ADIZ and all I learned was that I didn't want to fly anywhere near there.

[RocketAviator]

Contact tower, has happened to me more than once in high traffic area, DFW, DEN, HOU, PHX that I can recall I don't think they like little planes.. In those busy airports. One thing more I very much like and use extended run way and synthetic approach now and find them extremely useful to reduce nerve racking when I can't see airport... especially in an unfamiliar airport area.

Fly safe

[Mooneymite]

With a tower at FDK, that's the way to go. Let tower coordinate.

The problem is worse when you are IFR going into an uncontrolled field. Since you must comply with your last clearance, just switching off freq. and descending isn't a good option without declaring an emergency! Even worse in the SFRA.

I'm guessing that the controller will figure out what you did and say nothing, but if there's a deal, you'll have some 'splainin to do.

Is it just me, or does frequency congestion seem to be getting worse?

[ChrisH]

If it's VMC, field in sight, you have a GPS you'll find it. If it's not (VMC) or you're not comfortable visual (unfamiliar airport, terrain issues, night, whatever), request an approach.

[John Pleisse]

Squawk 1200...Frederick Tower, Mooney 1234, inbound landing with Foxtrot, oh and btw, we tried to cancel about six miles back with approach, not sure if they got it. Maintaining VFR, field in sight.

 

You guys make it seem like the Jeppesen Textbook police are going to getcha. Most tower controllers have a phone or will toss your strip. The sector controller who didn't hear you was likely dying to get as many planes off his scope as he could.

 

IMC, different story. By the book. Clearance limit.

[yvesg]

What about sqawking 7600... this would definitely get the controller attention right? You could not reach him so this is a comm failure.

Yves

[PTK]

You have the airport in sight at ~8 mi out and you report accordingly. Then you report again at ~6 mi out. Had approach not been so busy he would've said to you at about this time to expect visual approach.

He did get your reporting but was obviously very busy. But he knows you're going in.

The best thing to do is to facilitate things by contacting tower and tell them to let approach know they got you. Approach being so busy would've appreciated this help.

[Mooneymite]

What about sqawking 7600... this would definitely get the controller attention right? You could not reach him so this is a comm failure.

 

7600 would get some attention in the SFRA!

[yvesg]

7600 would get some attention in the SFRA!

If the radio fails to transmit due to an equipment failure (which could have been the case), wouldn't you cover your butt by squawking 7600?

Yves

[PMcClure]

If VMC, I would contact tower and explain. Then they will start talking to you and you are now in contact with ATC. If IMC, then something else - but I don't think you would have been given a clearance to the airport. If the field was really IMC, you would have the clearance for an approach long before 10 miles. Or, you would be cleared to a fix and if you lost ATC contact, you can hold at that fix then follow lost com if you don't have contact. Likely you would have been cleared for an approach, in which case, I assume you can continue on the approach and land. In that case, I would continue to monitor ATC and tower as well as make contact with tower and tell them my intentions. 

[Dave Marten]

If your clearance limit was the airport, then continue to the airport and land. That's what IFR lost com procedures are for. Monitor/contact tower on com2 if able.

NO. This is NOT a lost comm situation. Lost comm procedures are not a solution for busy radios.  

[Dave Marten]

 

IFR flight in contact with Approach controller. Assigned Direct KFDK, descend to 3000' as I was nearing Frederick, the controller tells me the airport is 12 o'clock and 10 miles, report airport in sight. I could not see the field so I responded with my N #. The frequency then became very, very busy with the controller issuing rapid fire instruction to a number of other aircraft. As I crossed the last ridge at about eight miles out, I spotted the airport and waited for a chance to report. It was hectic on the radio, the controller still talking constantly, I finally got a break and reported the airport in sight, but got no respond from him. I slowed down and prepared for the visual approach, still maintaining 3000' direct to the airport which is a Class D towered field. At six miles out I got a chance to report again, still no response. So what would you do?

If you are VMC and able to maintain VMC to the field your best answer is to CANCEL IFR. State your cancellation, squawk 1200, and contact tower outside their Class D. The busy controller will hear your cancellation and/or SEE your VFR sqwauk. Proceed with a VFR arrival. Gotta state that IFR cancellation!

 

If you are not able to maintain VMC then your stuck waiting on the controller. If on that IFR clearance you must maintain your last assigned altitude (3000MSL in your case) until reaching your clearance limit (FDK) if still unable to get a word in you need to hold at the clearance limit

 

AIM: "If the requested clearance is not received prior to reaching the clearance limit fix, the pilot will be expected to enter into a standard holding pattern on the radial or course to the fix unless a holding pattern for the clearance limit fix is depicted on a U.S. Government or commercially produced (meeting FAA requirements) low or high altitude enroute, area or STAR chart. In this case the pilot will hold according to the depicted pattern."

 

For your example: Best Answer in VMC - State your IFR cancellation, squawk 1200, contact tower outside the Class D, and proceed with a VFR arrival.

 

Do not descend for the field on your own while still under on an IFR clearance - cancellation is key (3rd reminder).

[PMcClure]

If you are VMC and able to maintain VMC to the field your best answer is to CANCEL IFR. State your cancellation, squawk 1200, and contact tower outside their Class D. The busy controller will hear your cancellation and/or SEE your VFR sqwauk. Proceed with a VFR arrival. Gotta state that IFR cancellation!

 

If you are not able to maintain VMC then your stuck waiting on the controller. If on that IFR clearance you must maintain your last assigned altitude (3000MSL in your case) until reaching your clearance limit (FDK) if still unable to get a word in you need to hold at the clearance limit

 

AIM: "If the requested clearance is not received prior to reaching the clearance limit fix, the pilot will be expected to enter into a standard holding pattern on the radial or course to the fix unless a holding pattern for the clearance limit fix is depicted on a U.S. Government or commercially produced (meeting FAA requirements) low or high altitude enroute, area or STAR chart. In this case the pilot will hold according to the depicted pattern."

 

For your example: Best Answer in VMC - State your IFR cancellation, squawk 1200, contact tower outside the Class D, and proceed with a VFR arrival.

 

Do not descend for the field on your own while still under on an IFR clearance - cancellation is key (3rd reminder).

Dave, I agree. However, if you switch to Tower, are you not then still in contact with ATC? If they give you new instructions, you follow them. But if you cannot reach Tower, then you must continue on to the field at 3000' and hold? 

[Danb]

Seems simple to me, I agree with Brett and Mooneymite, contact tower proceed and land let the twr do the rest, your cleared to airport I assume no chance to to try 7600 or file a rpt. If your really that unsure make it clear with the tower the freq. was congested, if it was uncontrolled I call act from the ground to cover my assets. This seems like a normal happening when flying in the northeast, or Atlanta ok KCLT. There are some great scenarios on Pilotworkshop which I have been with for a few yrs.

[Danb]

Seems simple to me, I agree with Brett and Mooneymite, contact tower proceed and land let the twr do the rest, your cleared to airport I assume no chance to to try 7600 or file a rpt. If your really that unsure make it clear with the tower the freq. was congested, if it was uncontrolled I call act from the ground to cover my assets. This seems like a normal happening when flying in the northeast, or Atlanta ok KCLT. There are some great scenarios on Pilotworkshop which I have been with for a few yrs.

[N33GG]

This is not really an approved procedure, but I have heard it works wonders in a situation like this...

Key mic and count to about five, and then slowly make your statement. A southern drawl might help at this point. ATC will quickly take care of you and get you out of the way.

Don't ask me how I know this works well... :-)

[Marauder]

This is not really an approved procedure, but I have heard it works wonders in a situation like this...

Key mic and count to about five, and then slowly make your statement. A southern drawl might help at this point. ATC will quickly take care of you and get you out of the way.

Don't ask me how I know this works well... :-)

Up in the Philly to New York corridor, it is guaranteed to get you a direct route to Timbuktu

Sent using Tapatalk

[phecksel]

Ident

[Cruiser]

If it's VMC, field in sight, you have a GPS you'll find it. If it's not (VMC) or you're not comfortable visual (unfamiliar airport, terrain issues, night, whatever), request an approach.

 

I think this is the best answer. Even though I couldn't actually see the airport I knew where it was. I should have reported and gotten handed off when I had contact with the controller. 

 

Squawk 1200...Frederick Tower, Mooney 1234, inbound landing with Foxtrot, oh and btw, we tried to cancel about six miles back with approach, not sure if they got it. Maintaining VFR, field in sight.

 

You guys make it seem like the Jeppesen Textbook police are going to getcha. Most tower controllers have a phone or will toss your strip. The sector controller who didn't hear you was likely dying to get as many planes off his scope as he could.

 

IMC, different story. By the book. Clearance limit.

 

Things got really, really busy on the frequency. John is right, the approach controller didn't need me on his list of things to do. He was probably hoping I would leave him alone anyway.

 

I wasn't too certain how this thread might go. With the variety of responses so far I think it has had value? At least for me. 

Anyone else have a "what would you do" to share?

[PMcClure]

I've used the southern drawl and really slow talk to communicate with NY controllers that I really can't write as fast as they talk. They have always slowed down after a real southern and slow request to give the amended clearance again....

[Dave Marten]

Dave, I agree. However, if you switch to Tower, are you not then still in contact with ATC? If they give you new instructions, you follow them. But if you cannot reach Tower, then you must continue on to the field at 3000' and hold?

You should not switch to tower on your own when under IFR control...period. So dump the IFR! For the fourth time.....if VMC key the mic, CANCEL IFR, squawk 1200.....THEN proceed inbound VFR. Establish your two way comm prior to entering the class D and land.

Don't hand yourself off to the next controlling agency. Nothing will piss off ATC more then a pilot trying to do their job for them. There may be a damn good reason why they aren't talking to you at the moment. So either be patient or cancel your IFR services.