BMI

[Marauder]

Figured out. 25.5

Well Dan, at 25.5, you're a "fatty" just like most of us Being overweight is just one factor that can be an indicator of pending problems. What's next, high cholesterol? Family history? You look like you might have a heart attack?

What is wrong with the FAA approach is that health related accidents are a small percentage of the overall accident statistic. You want to talk about a real safety factor? Go to a truck stop and watch heavy rig drivers get out of their trucks. No regulation for being a lard arse in that industry -- so you can legally take a fully loaded double trailer weighing 70,000 pounds down a highway at 65 mph with a school bus in front of you packed with children.

What have we allowed ourselves to become?

[NotarPilot]

Although I do believe this country has an obesity problem, I don't believe it's the government's place to say what we can and can't or shouldn't eat or drink.  That being said, they gave provide us with the information to make health choices and leave the decision to us.  Unlike what Bloomberg may think.

 

BMI: 25.5 here and still working on lowering it.

[co2bruce]

I have a little different view of this issue.  I fly professionally with a fellow who is also a friend.  This guy's mother just passed from a stroke; his sister had a stroke six months earlier and my friend is always telling me, "I have to lose some weight".

 

However, he doesn't.  He just can't bring himself to do what he needs to do.

 

I am very afraid that one morning, he's not going to be there for pickup and he'll be dead in his hotel room.

 

If the FAA threatens him with losing his certificate he will lose weight and maybe live an extra 30 years.  If that's what it takes, bring it on!

So you feel it's ok for the government to force people into behavior they deem beneficial? By that logic lets cancel all drivers licenses for people that smoke, drink or use illegal drugs. You see this is a very slippery slope. This of course will never happen because the drivers are too large of a voting block. The fact that tobacco is still legal in the country just goes to prove the government does not care about your safety one bit.

[yvesg]

26.8 for me and apparenty I am on the 49th percentile which means about right in the middle of the men population.

http://www.halls.md/body-mass-index/av.htm

Yves

[drapo]

As a youngster, I've played hockey and soccer at high levels, I was then 5'9" and 190lbs. At 56, I now weight 210lbs, still play soccer in an over 30 league and train at the gym twice a week. Few years ago, a doctor called me a " morbid obese", according to the charts and almost took my medical back. Had to go through a series of tests, including an ECG while running for 30 min and blood samples to finally learn that I was "top shape".

Charts and indexes don't tell all the story, they're more like shortcuts for the lazy ones .....

[kmyfm20s]

When I fly commercial I can tell you that I prefer to have a pilot board the plane that doesn't smell like smoke and have to turn sideways to enter the cockpit. I understand many of the concerns with BMI score but many examples given so far are statistical outliers that will be inconvenienced. If you took a random sample of the general population I think you would be surprised who is lined up and even further surprised if you took a health history.

[aviatoreb]

As a youngster, I've played hockey and soccer at high levels, I was then 5'9" and 190lbs. At 56, I now weight 210lbs, still play soccer in an over 30 league and train at the gym twice a week. Few years ago, a doctor called me a " morbid obese", according to the charts and almost took my medical back. Had to go through a series of tests, including an ECG while running for 30 min and blood samples to finally learn that I was "top shape".

Charts and indexes don't tell all the story, they're more like shortcuts for the lazy ones .....

 

That's ok - like I said, Arnold Schwarzenegger was obese during his top form competitive days at 6'2'' 250 in competition and 260lbs off season.

[aviatoreb]

26.8 for me and apparenty I am on the 49th percentile which means about right in the middle of the men population.

http://www.halls.md/body-mass-index/av.htm

Yves

 

I wonder who is the population group of that distribution?

 

I am going to Germany tomorrow for several days for work.  My general impression is that Europeans are thinner as a group.

[Hank]

 

I am going to Germany tomorrow for several days for work.  My general impression is that Europeans are thinner as a group.

You've done it, now, Erik. We expect a report next week! :-) I can say that when I lived in Japan in my mid-20s, American tourists were easy to spot and significantly heavier than the Japanese norm. I was college-thin and still lost weight; when the scales frightened me, I moved to 5 meals daily, and stabilized at 149 lbs. Didn't last long when I came back!

[scottfromiowa]

When I fly commercial I can tell you that I prefer to have a pilot board the plane that doesn't smell like smoke and have to turn sideways to enter the cockpit. I understand many of the concerns with BMI score but many examples given so far are statistical outliers that will be inconvenienced. If you took a random sample of the general population I think you would be surprised who is lined up and even further surprised if you took a health history.

What is the statistical liklihood of having both pilot and first officer have a spontaneious catastrophic health event? I submit that you and others that "feel" the way you do are...The problem. What difference does it make it the pilot is a smoker or overweight? What you call an "inconvenience" is THOUSANDS of dollars to have a sleep survey completed and loss of medical and flying priviledge until resolved. Not a fan of your opinion or your comments, but I understand you have the right to "feel" about "it" as you do.

[scottfromiowa]

How about a $100 tax credit for every pound you and every family members pound lost? How about a $100 tax increase for every pound gained? Laugh...IT'S COMING.

C.O.N.T.R.O.L

[aviatoreb]

You've done it, now, Erik. We expect a report next week! :-) I can say that when I lived in Japan in my mid-20s, American tourists were easy to spot and significantly heavier than the Japanese norm. I was college-thin and still lost weight; when the scales frightened me, I moved to 5 meals daily, and stabilized at 149 lbs. Didn't last long when I came back!

 

Yup - I know I did it....  I said it - They are just skinnier in Europe.  I go relatively often for work.  

 

When I say skinnier I don't nesc mean fitter.  I doubt healthier since smoking seems as if it is even more common than here.  Just skinnier.  If you don't eat much and you don't exercise, then you will be light for lack of fat and lack of muscle, and you might even have a relatively high body fat ratio for lack of muscle weight in that mix.  

 

If you eat a lot and don't exercise as many american's do, then you will be fat.  If you eat a lot and exercise - especially with weights, then you will puff up, and maybe be lots of muscle and lots of fat, or somewhere in between.  Anyway, it is almost like it is a style here to puff up with weights on this continent, and it is like a style to be eurochic skinny over there - and smoke.  Speaking in generalities.  I am speaking only of perception, no stats, but I have read the psychology (in science news) that people if they are around fat people compare themselves to the median, so if they are near the median they feel as if they are fine.  If that median is fat (even if it is in your own family or small friends group) then you are more likely to gain weight but feel like there is no problem.  And I presume it is similar for eurochic skinny - to complete the stereotype - and smoke.  But hey, looks great on the BMI.

 

I just did my two xc ski races today - Right now I am flat on the coach and tired!  I will be in ski season for 6 more weeks, then I will switch to cycling season.  Over about 8 weeks my arms, shoulders and chest visibly get smaller.  My weight drops 10lbs in 8 weeks.  Every year like that.  My resting heart rate stays about the same.  I go from XC ski fit to bicycle fit (not uber-elite-fit but you know - competitive with the masters).  I will carry about the same amount of fat in raw lbs in my body, but loss of 10lbs muscle will cause an increase in my body fat ratio, and my BMI will decrease back to ~25 from ~26 it is today.  My annual seasonal change.

[chrisk]

How about a $100 tax credit for every pound you and every family members pound lost? How about a $100 tax increase for every pound gained? Laugh...IT'S COMING.

C.O.N.T.R.O.L

 

And how many here would be opposed to tying food stamp benefits to BMI for those getting medicare benefits?  Or,how about a food tax to fund Obama care?  --It will never happen.   On the other hand I can see new health care surcharges based on what your doctor reports.

[fluffysheap]

As a youngster, I've played hockey and soccer at high levels, I was then 5'9" and 190lbs. At 56, I now weight 210lbs, still play soccer in an over 30 league and train at the gym twice a week. Few years ago, a doctor called me a " morbid obese", according to the charts and almost took my medical back. Had to go through a series of tests, including an ECG while running for 30 min and blood samples to finally learn that I was "top shape".

 

That doctor was full of crap.  At 5'9" and 210' your BMI would be 31, which (if it was all fat rather than muscle) would put you in the obese category - barely - but not morbidly obese, which needs a BMI of 40 (270 lbs at 5'9") or weight-related health problems.

 

And is weight even one of the criteria that an AME can use to deny a medical?  Based on the fact that there is so much hoopla over the sleep apnea test, I believe the answer is probably no.  It isn't in the standards.

 

Never having had medical concerns, is there some procedure you can use to appeal gross incompetence by an AME, like imagining you weigh 60 pounds more than you do and that it's a disqualifying condition.  Not talking about getting a waiver for a condition you actually have, but an appeal because the AME was wrong.

 

All that said, an ECG is required for first and second class medical after age 35, so that, by itself, isn't out of the ordinary unless you were only going for a third-class.

[DrBill]

Right now I'm 25.5 heading toward 24.9. I was as high (in the past 2 years) as 29.5!

The last 4 pounds is the hardest to lose!

BILL

[DonMuncy]

ECG for a second class medical? I have had a second class for a number of years and never had an ECG.

[kmyfm20s]

What is the statistical liklihood of having both pilot and first officer have a spontaneious catastrophic health event? I submit that you and others that "feel" the way you do are...The problem. What difference does it make it the pilot is a smoker or overweight? What you call an "inconvenience" is THOUSANDS of dollars to have a sleep survey completed and loss of medical and flying priviledge until resolved. Not a fan of your opinion or your comments, but I understand you have the right to "feel" about "it" as you do.

My "feeling" only pertains to professional pilots. I am not arguing that BMI is flawed but in the case of overweight, high body fat individuals with additional risk factors(smoking) there is an argument. When you send your family off on a single pilot charter you can pick your pilot as you please, but when I send off mine I will expect the pilot to be in appropriate health to fly. I think your overstating the cost involved. A Home sleep test (HST) is available all over for as low as $300, just try a Google search. The nicest CPAP machine would be a $1000 if you don't have insurance. The undiagnosed sleep apnea patient will forever be grateful that their condition was discovered after they see and feel the changes. Come fly out to CA and I will give you a HST for free, I'll even pick up pizza and beer!

[scottfromiowa]

You are a screener for HST KMYF? O.K., Got it. I'm sure business will be picking up. Enjoy.

[Cruiser]

My "feeling" only pertains to professional pilots. I am not arguing that BMI is flawed but in the case of overweight, high body fat individuals with additional risk factors(smoking) there is an argument. When you send your family off on a single pilot charter you can pick your pilot as you please, but when I send off mine I will expect the pilot to be in appropriate health to fly. I think your overstating the cost involved. A Home sleep test (HST) is available all over for as low as $300, just try a Google search. The nicest CPAP machine would be a $1000 if you don't have insurance. The undiagnosed sleep apnea patient will forever be grateful that their condition was discovered after they see and feel the changes. Come fly out to CA and I will give you a HST for free, I'll even pick up pizza and beer!

It is so easy to get off track on these kind of issues. The focus here is on pilot qualifications. It is not about health issues. i am sure everyone could benefit from more sleep, exercise and a healthier diet but does that disqualify a person from flying? If the Federal Air Surgeon gets his way it will and then what's next? Maybe we will be pre-screened for genetic markers and disqualified for family histories....... sorry I am getting cynical. The point is even if a pilot has sleep apnea it does not put him or his flights at any greater risk and the FAA's attempt at new rule making is an abuse of their authority

[scottfromiowa]

BaZinGa! Tom has hit it...Just read both my and California HST Screener's posts and discussed what Tom has said:

"What does this (Sleep Apnea) have to do with a GA pilots ability to exercise his Private Pilot's License"?

What statistics do we have for safety/incidents/accidents directly or indirectly identifying Sleep Disorder as the fundamental cause for the accident?

Why isn't there "A UNIFORM RESPONSE FROM EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM, EXCEPT SOMEONE WHO MIGHT GAIN FROM INCREASED BUSINESS 100% STATING "HELL NO"!

FAA, You have over-reached at a time when you should be doing just the opposite...finding ways to support General Aviation and promote its future proliferation.

[Hank]

I thought the Home Sleep Test was not permitted, due to the difficulty of proving who was being monitored at home, thus forcing all pilots in the selected range (arbitrarily chosen without science, proof, rationale or explanation, and intended to become more restrictive over time) to visit a clinic for overnight, observed testing. No way will the Feds approve a $100, at home, unmonitored test to disprove presence of a condition they think you might have without needing to examine you first. If you fit their profile, you've got the condition until you prove to their satisfaction that you don't. And they determine what constitutes "negative proof."

Guilty until proven innocent . . . .

[kmyfm20s]

You are a screener for HST KMYF? O.K., Got it. I'm sure business will be picking up. Enjoy.

I never mention sleep apnea I my initial post, I was was replying to your thousands of dollars in sleep studies:)

[kmyfm20s]

I thought the Home Sleep Test was not permitted, due to the difficulty of proving who was being monitored at home, thus forcing all pilots in the selected range (arbitrarily chosen without science, proof, rationale or explanation, and intended to become more restrictive over time) to visit a clinic for overnight, observed testing. No way will the Feds approve a $100, at home, unmonitored test to disprove presence of a condition they think you might have without needing to examine you first. If you fit their profile, you've got the condition until you prove to their satisfaction that you don't. And they determine what constitutes "negative proof."

Guilty until proven innocent . . . .

Valid point, you could be very right!

[kmyfm20s]

It is so easy to get off track on these kind of issues. The focus here is on pilot qualifications. It is not about health issues. i am sure everyone could benefit from more sleep, exercise and a healthier diet but does that disqualify a person from flying? If the Federal Air Surgeon gets his way it will and then what's next? Maybe we will be pre-screened for genetic markers and disqualified for family histories....... sorry I am getting cynical. The point is even if a pilot has sleep apnea it does not put him or his flights at any greater risk and the FAA's attempt at new rule making is an abuse of their authority

It started off as pilot medicals and BMI, at least that's what the title and post #1 discuses. I sure there are a lot of very talented pilots with bad health.

[DonMuncy]

IF sleep apnea is a real risk. (Where are the statistics of any flight having an actual impact on safe flight)

And IF high BMI people have a significant risk of sleep apnea.(Statistics? Pick a percentage. 20%, 5%)

and IF sleep apnea doesn't occur in significant numbers in low BMI people. (Statistics? Pick a percentage)

Then the FAA might convince me their proposal has some merit for passenger carrying pilots.

Double those percentages and I get a little closer to buying off of checking all of us.