Accepted practice for those that take delivery of an item for sale and fail to pay.

[1980Mooney]

13 hours ago, Lois said:

I agree. Discounted price with me paying postage. Payment only expected with acceptance of the delivery. Excuses post delivery. 

Were there any issues about delivery/loss in shipping/non-receipt/damage in shipping or discrepancy of "advertised vs. delivered"? Was there a post-delivery request to pay in multiple payments over time?  Anything that makes this less than a "black and white" issue?

 

[laytonl]

12 hours ago, donkaye said:

I wish real names were required here, as they are on Beechtalk.  It might make this type of thing less likely to occur.

I agree completely.  Names should be required, though I’ve never had an issue selling something on MS.  Lee

[201Mooniac]

I'm very sad to hear this, I've always trusted everyone on MS for both sales and purchases and have had great results to date.  I hope this is resolved quickly.

[Yetti]

Back in the prior to Paypal days of ebay.  It was payment received then the item shipped.  The year was 2000.  I made a fair amount of money buying Enron stuff at the company store for discount and then selling on Ebay.   "Lost" a couple of things in the mail, but did not care I was making bank.

[MooneyMitch]

Darn.  Possibly a medical issue with buyer and unable to communicate or even function normally.  Hope for the best for both of you 

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, MooneyMitch said:

Darn.  Possibly a medical issue with buyer and unable to communicate or even function normally.  Hope for the best for both of you 

Doubtful. The member in question was logged in after this thread was started and then signed off shortly thereafter.

[donkaye]

Personally, I don't send anything I'm selling on any site until payment has been received and cleared.  Having said that, it is apparent that, after this amount of time, this person has no intention of paying, has no integrity, should be "outed", and banned from MooneySpace.

[Jerry Pressley]

I sell quite a bit here and normally send the parts up front so the buyer can see if "used" is good enough for him.  Have had one item returned but three that didn't bother paying.  Most of the people here are above average in that respect. 

[OR75]

This reminds me of an instance when someone years ago wanted a ride in a Mooney to see how it flies before buying one. 

 First and last time. 

[hubcap]

20 minutes ago, donkaye said:

Personally, I don't send anything I'm selling on any site until payment has been received and cleared.  Having said that, it is apparent that, after this amount of time, this person has not intention of paying, has no integrity, should be "outed", and banned from MooneySpace.

There are two sides to every story, and at this point we have only heard one side.

IF the facts demonstrate the member was guilty of non-payment for no legitimate reason then bring out the BAN HAMMER!!

I am not doubting the OP, just prefer to hear from the other side before passing judgement.

[Pinecone]

It happens.   I have bought a lot on various sites, including here, with only a few issues. 

The items were not expensive and there was a reasonable explanation, but I was still out the money.

But I agree, out the person.  Not to punish them, but to prevent them from scamming others on MS.

[DonMuncy]

Mooneyspace folks have been buying my visors, etc. for years and I ship before payment almost every time. I have NEVER been stiffed. Most often, the recipient pays me before he receives the shipment.

Am I stupid? Should I change my trust level, or my way of doing things? Do you think it makes a difference that I am on the selling end, rather than on the buying end?

If, as some have suggested, a seller waits to ship until paid, are there unscrupulous sellers who would take your money and never send a product? 

Is it because most everyone here knows me?

 

[0TreeLemur]

I trade a lot of stuff here, eBay, and other sites.   When dealing with members of the aviation community I have not yet had a problem (knock on skull).

Some folks procrastinate.  Then something comes up.  Tight money, health issue, you name it.   Communication solves that problem to the extent that it avoids anyone getting angry.

Some folks procrastinate then guilt sets in...  Then one of two things happens- the guilt makes them pay, or they cope with it by pretending it never happened.   I'm no psychiatrist, but it happens.   Shame doesn't help in this case I'm afraid.  That person has already decided to ignore the problem.

I'd suggest that persistent reminders is the way to go. 

The only other alternative involves attorneys and all the invoices they create.

Good luck.

[LANCECASPER]

Mooneyspace folks have been buying my visors, etc. for years and I ship before payment almost every time. I have NEVER been stiffed. Most often, the recipient pays me before he receives the shipment.
Am I stupid? Should I change my trust level, or my way of doing things? Do you think it makes a difference that I am on the selling end, rather than on the buying end?
If, as some have suggested, a seller waits to ship until paid, are there unscrupulous sellers who would take your money and never send a product? 
Is it because most everyone here knows me?

Haha, they know you practiced law in Texas for many years . . lol  

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, DonMuncy said:

Mooneyspace folks have been buying my visors, etc. for years and I ship before payment almost every time. I have NEVER been stiffed. Most often, the recipient pays me before he receives the shipment.

Am I stupid? Should I change my trust level, or my way of doing things? Do you think it makes a difference that I am on the selling end, rather than on the buying end?

If, as some have suggested, a seller waits to ship until paid, are there unscrupulous sellers who would take your money and never send a product? 

Is it because most everyone here knows me?

 

I have sold at least a half dozen items out of my hangar over the last several years. Brittain parts, voltage regulators, flap pumps and actuators etc...  I too always ship before payment. Indeed I usually tell them to wait until the part is in service to pay. Never had a problem.  I think I may know who this individual is. If my suspicions are correct, it would be out of character for them.

[McMooney]

I purchased 2 gps units from Mooneyspace members,  both arriving before i'd arranged payment.

 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by McMooney

[GeeBee]

I bought a couple marine halon bottles off of Ebay once. I paid, they were never shipped. Ebay was helpful in identifying the guy, but not in recovering my money. It made me mad so I non-revved down to FLL. I swore out a complaint with the police. Then I went to his address and stood outside. I called the police. They showed up. He could not pay restitution so he went off to jail. He got a few months in county.....and a record.

[donkaye]

4 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

Mooneyspace folks have been buying my visors, etc. for years and I ship before payment almost every time. I have NEVER been stiffed. Most often, the recipient pays me before he receives the shipment.

Am I stupid? Should I change my trust level, or my way of doing things? Do you think it makes a difference that I am on the selling end, rather than on the buying end?

If, as some have suggested, a seller waits to ship until paid, are there unscrupulous sellers who would take your money and never send a product? 

Is it because most everyone here knows me?

 

I guess I'm a control freak.  I know my ethics, but not someone else's.  For example, when I sell a landing video, I don't feel right until I ship it out, usually the same day as the money arrives.  I've sold higher priced items such as my GTX 330ES and my complete KFC 150, and got them shipped immediately.

If I'm the buyer, I will buy on eBay up front for small priced items if the reputation of the Seller is 99%.  Anything over $100 I'm not buying online except for a big company like Costco, and only then with a credit card.

Luckily, Air Power is a big Company.  Those were a couple of the biggest checks I've written without having the merchandise in hand.  The most uncomfortable I've been was writing the check for my Garmin product to the avionic's shop because I'd been involved with a shop that wasn't ethical many years ago.  I gave them my Stormscope to send out for repair to a company in Reno.  The company got it fixed and wouldn't release it to me when the shop went bankrupt owing them money.  My Stormscope had nothing to do with that, but I got extorted to get it back.  A lawsuit just wasn't worth it.  My avionics company with my Garmin product had been in business for nearly 50 years and offered to let me keep the product when it came in until it was installed.  I let them keep it, and that trust was respected.

[MooneyMitch]

This appears to be a very rare situation here on MS.  I too have never had any issues and always shipped prior to receiving payment. 

[FlyingDude]

Sir, I apologize for coming across as cranky, but I don't understand the point of this post...  You sold someone something and you have not received the money.  The reasons can be anything on the wide spectrum ranging from this guy being a total thief to him being completely innocent and unable to fulfill his part of the transaction because he got incapacitated and his estate is not able to reach you.  Now what is exactly the purpose of your post?  Us symphatizing with you is not going to get your money.  Us banning this guy would lead him to create a new user name.  I'd suggest file a police report and inform the guy's FSDO.

I've sold multiple sub$1000 items on MS and even Facebook and each time I asked for direct payment.  One time a user asked to pay with Paypal merchandise (not friends) and I told him that I'd up the charge to cover for that, because I think I already sold those parts cheap, I'm not taking another hit.  He then paid with Paypal friends and I shipped the parts right away.  One time, I could not find a right-sized box and didn't have any filler material, so I stuffed the part in the box with unused rolls of toilet paper (it used to be expensive back then, but I didn't charge for it) because I wanted to fulfill my obligation ASAP.  Another time, a gentleman sold me something here.  I mailed him a check and our agreement was that he'd cash it after I inspect the part.  Otherwise I'd return it.  The part was good, he cashed the money...  No issues...  My point is, it's a crap shoot.  Mostly, you'll run into nice, decent honest people.  Sometimes, not.  I'd suggest disclose their names and give them a chance to reach out if there is a misunderstanding.  In the meantime, taking some minor action might maybe not "scare" him but might "lead" him into the right direction...  Other than that, our symphaties here will not really do you any good...

[Pinecone]

He started by asking what was a reasonable way to proceed.

Some seem to be missing the the person in question has been online on MS during the time of not replying to the OP.  So, not incapacitated.

[FlyingDude]

@Pinecone I know.  I suggested a "range", not a binary choice.  I also answered his question, (i.e. what to do in my opinion).

There clearly is no "acceptable method" here.  MS has no bylaws, not even moderators.  MS does not issue Advisory Circulars.  

 

[A64Pilot]

Before you sell or buy something from an individual it may help to check their activity, if it’s just two posts both trying to sell the part be wary. A lot of activity I feel a lot safer.

Seems most scams are Avionics, I think those are attempted to be sold across several forums, because those can go in any airframe.

Sellers not being paid are a whole lot rarer than buyers never getting the item.

A few months ago I bought a Milwaukee drill powered tow bar from someone who first off wasn’t that active and was selling it because he had sold the airplane, that concerned me, but it worked out fine. I took a gamble and it was OK, but it is a gamble.

[1980Mooney]

46 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

He started by asking what was a reasonable way to proceed.

Some seem to be missing the the person in question has been online on MS during the time of not replying to the OP.  So, not incapacitated.

We get that.  However as @hubcap said "There are two sides to every story, and at this point we have only heard one side."  I previously asked if there was some dispute or issue but got no reply ( i.e. delivery/loss in shipping/non-receipt/damage in shipping or discrepancy of "advertised vs. delivered"? Was there a post-delivery request to pay in multiple payments over time?) .  

The OP said "If the mods look at the pm traffic there is no mistake in what is going on. ".  Well what is going on?

A few more facts would help understand whether this is a binary issue.  I suspect that there is more to the story.

Like @FlyingDude and @donkaye I have never shipped anything until I have payment in hand.  The risk is on the buyer and I have been a buyer many times on different sales sites.  One time after I paid, the seller never shipped but I got a refund.

If it is a black/white issue then my answer to the OP is report it as theft. I noticed that the OP was previously selling some Garmin avionics on MS - if this is the item at issue, then I would also report the serial numbers to Garmin as stolen.

And the suggestion about "banishing" anyone from MS is a waste of time.  All they have to do is change their screen name and log back on.  And anyone can search and read Mooneyspace without even becoming a member so what is the point?

[EricJ]

56 minutes ago, FlyingDude said:

@Pinecone I know.  I suggested a "range", not a binary choice.  I also answered his question, (i.e. what to do in my opinion).

There clearly is no "acceptable method" here.  MS has no bylaws, not even moderators.  MS does not issue Advisory Circulars.  

It's not unreasonable to poll a community regarding best practices on a topic.   It's a good idea if you're not sure of how to proceed.