For those mechanics and others that ignore manuals and still pull the tail down cause it’s always worked before

[T. Peterson]

2 hours ago, rbp said:

why write "some would disagree" and "some political agendas" and "those who supposedly hate politics/philosophy" instead of just saying who those people are what political agendas you might be referring to?  if people don't like it, they can just skip over what you write?

 

Because I don’t want to be provocative. I am not pushing an agenda and I have zero interest in offending anyone. I did find the recent thread on climate change informative and entertaining. I also think that how the government pursues climate change initiatives could drastically impact our ability to enjoy GA. I don’t have all the technical skills or math prowess that is demonstrated by so many of our erudite contributors, but I certainly enjoy reading them and learning something in the process. It would certainly have been a shame to shut down that thread just because there were political overtones. There are other things besides the hard sciences that affect our Mooney ownership.

The point I was trying to make was very simple: “Live and let live.” I don’t read every thread on this forum. I read what is of interest to me and I don’t call for anything to be banned or shut down. I also try to be respectful to everyone, especially with those with whom I may disagree. I don’t want to be offensive, rude, overbearing or provocative. Unfortunately that is becoming almost impossible in a declining culture in which daring to have an opinion contrary to the mainstream is in itself offensive. That’s why I urge those who find certain discussions offensive not to read them. On the climate change thread I noted that most of those who objected to the thread never again appeared in the thread. Kudos to them! They didn’t like it so they went to other threads. LIBERTY is wonderful!!!

[EricJ]

8 hours ago, T. Peterson said:

Your premise is that politics has nothing to do with Mooney ownership. Some would disagree. The philosophy behind some political agendas may be perceived as a genuine threat to our privilege of flight. Some people on MS may enjoy debating those concerns. Some detest the notion. So why can’t the debaters debate and the detesters read threads that are more suitable to their tastes? 
The irony is that those who supposedly hate politics/philosophy on MS are more than willing to shut down those who disagree. Is that an aviation position, or a political/philosophical position?

If internet history is any guide once it become accepted to post political discourse it bleeds into every thread and the entire site may become polluted with political debates.   There's a reason religion and politics have been discouraged in polite conversation for decades.   That may be lost on a lot of people, but I think the other side of your argument is, if you want to talk about politics, why not do it somewhere that it is welcomed?   The risk is diminishing the participating population on the site to those who are fine with political debates, and that usually distills down to "debates of a particular political persuasion", so the pool gets even smaller.

This is just how it has gone on similar sites since the beginning of the internet, so I wouldn't expect this one to be any different.   I'd like to see as many people participate as possible, rather than excluding any, but I guess that point of view may be disliked by some.

 

[T. Peterson]

On 4/21/2023 at 1:13 PM, rbp said:

but its not really a joke. its a dig disguised as a joke

 

Two southern bells are sitting on a porch having tea.
Lady 1: Did you see the ring my Henry gave me? extends hand
Lady 2: My, that's nice.
Lady 1: And did you see the new car my Henry dear bought for my birthday?
Lady 2: My, that's nice.
Lady 1: Oh, and my Henry says he's taking me on a European vacation!
Lady 2: My, that's nice.
Lady 1: So what has your hubby done for you lately?
Lady 2: My hubby? Well my hubby paid for me to have etiquette lessons so I can say "My, that's nice," instead of "Fuck you."

I don’t appreciate that joke either because I don’t appreciate cursing and I despise the “F” word. However I just ignore that stuff and don’t go on a personal crusade. That just gives fodder to the perpetrators anyway. 
Fortunately I don’t see much low brow stuff on MS which is part of the reason I enjoy it. It’s sort of like eating fish. When I come to a bone I lay the bone aside. I don’t throw the fish away.

[T. Peterson]

11 minutes ago, EricJ said:

If internet history is any guide once it become accepted to post political discourse it bleeds into every thread and the entire site may become polluted with political debates.   There's a reason religion and politics have been discouraged in polite conversation for decades.   That may be lost on a lot of people, but I think the other side of your argument is, if you want to talk about politics, why not do it somewhere that it is welcomed?   The risk is diminishing the participating population on the site to those who are fine with political debates, and that usually distills down to "debates of a particular political persuasion", so the pool gets even smaller.

This is just how it has gone on similar sites since the beginning of the internet, so I wouldn't expect this one to be any different.   I'd like to see as many people participate as possible, rather than excluding any, but I guess that point of view may be disliked by some.

 

Your concern is noted and appreciated. I too want to see increased participation and certainly don’t want to see it diminished. 
I can’t speak to the idea that political debate has killed off other forums as MS is my only social media outlet. I do wonder if it’s actually the debate or the nastiness that is prone to develop? Apparently one gentleman left because he asked a question about basic med and was buried under criticism. I have observed that it is not the threads with political overtones that have been the most caustic. Some of the LOP threads and more recently one about weighing an airplane generated more heat than I thought was warranted.

The other issue is how do you keep out anything with political overtones? Political implications are overwhelming in this day and age and I think that is the main reason it creeps into so many threads. To attempt to totally ignore it is like ignoring the 1000 pound gorilla in the room. 
Maybe we would be better off calling out one another for being gratuitously unkind in our posts rather than censoring content?

[N201MKTurbo]

How did we get from tail stands to politics?  

[ilovecornfields]

35 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

How did we get from tail stands to politics?  

 

[T. Peterson]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

How did we get from tail stands to politics?  

Good question. I went back and started from the beginning to see where the “political” bent started. 
This whole thread was toxic from the beginning and just got more caustic with every post which had absolutely nothing to do with politics. The political bent happened when one poster started talking about shutting posts down and all the folks that have been run off Mooney Space. It was his philosophical notion that sent the thread down an avenue with political overtones. As near as I can tell the political part of the thread was the only part which restored any civility to the discourse!!

[rbp]

9 hours ago, T. Peterson said:

Because I don’t want to be provocative. I am not pushing an agenda and I have zero interest in offending anyone.

so in your mind the difference between "provocative" and "not provocative" is the naming of names?

news flash: not naming names doesn't mean we don't know who you're referring to, make it any less provocative or divisive, or give you plausible deniability saying for dick things.

its still offensive.

 

[Mooneymite]

Is it possible it is individual people and not the politics that turn threads sour?

It seems to me the same individuals' names seem to be associated with such sour threads, but maybe I am mistaken.

If this is, in fact, true, perhaps censoring certain people might be more effective than censoring certain subjects?  I would point out that the "ignore" feature allows each of us to censor anyone we find "sour".  IThe ignore feature decreases the possibility we will engage and encourage impolite, or rude people. 

[rbp]

10 hours ago, T. Peterson said:

I don’t appreciate that joke either because I don’t appreciate cursing and I despise the “F” word. However I just ignore that stuff and don’t go on a personal crusade. That just gives fodder to the perpetrators anyway. 
Fortunately I don’t see much low brow stuff on MS which is part of the reason I enjoy it. It’s sort of like eating fish. When I come to a bone I lay the bone aside. I don’t throw the fish away.

+1 for missing the point of the post.

people are already going around here saying "fuck you" just using different words. but let me translate most of the posts for you "fuck the libs. stop censoring us. stop telling us what kind of fuel we can put in our planes or where we can land or how much we can pollute. stop trying to regulate us. I want my freedom" and "fuck the right wing nut jobs. they're trying to destroy the planet, and soon we will have no fuel to fly or places to land because everywhere will be a shopping mall. people with hidden medical conditions will abuse the rules to fly unsafy. people will be using bailing wire and duct tape to fix their planes, and they will fall apart in the sky. and because they block user fees, we will have less and less air traffic control causing more mid-air collisions"

the reason we don't debate these things openly is because it NEVER CHANGES ANYBODY'S MIND, especially on an mostly anonymous internet board. All it does is let the authors "speak their minds" to lash out (indirectly) at people who they think are their enemies, and the people who agree get to pump their fists in the air, while the targets of these arguments do anything from ignoring the comments to attempting to debate them to saying more unkind things.

This is what we call Free Speech

Voltaire said: I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

and you do have the right and I would defend it. but actions have consequences, and the consequence on a mooney board is that it causes division in a group that has a shared common interest: Mooneys.

so if a moderator comes in an deletes the climate change post, people will yell "I was censored for my views!"  no, you were censored for being OFF TOPIC. or someone else will say "there were so many interesting and useful comments, we are well deleting them???" because they were perpetuating an off topic discussion that brought out more divisiveness 

Am I really the only one who's tired of it?

[N201MKTurbo]

54 minutes ago, rbp said:

Am I really the only one who's tired of it?

I’d be tired to if I wrote that many words about it.

The only thing an individual can do about it is ignore it.

[T. Peterson]

2 hours ago, rbp said:

+1 for missing the point of the post.

people are already going around here saying "fuck you" just using different words. but let me translate most of the posts for you "fuck the libs. stop censoring us. stop telling us what kind of fuel we can put in our planes or where we can land or how much we can pollute. stop trying to regulate us. I want my freedom" and "fuck the right wing nut jobs. they're trying to destroy the planet, and soon we will have no fuel to fly or places to land because everywhere will be a shopping mall. people with hidden medical conditions will abuse the rules to fly unsafy. people will be using bailing wire and duct tape to fix their planes, and they will fall apart in the sky. and because they block user fees, we will have less and less air traffic control causing more mid-air collisions"

the reason we don't debate these things openly is because it NEVER CHANGES ANYBODY'S MIND, especially on an mostly anonymous internet board. All it does is let the authors "speak their minds" to lash out (indirectly) at people who they think are their enemies, and the people who agree get to pump their fists in the air, while the targets of these arguments do anything from ignoring the comments to attempting to debate them to saying more unkind things.

This is what we call Free Speech

Voltaire said: I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

and you do have the right and I would defend it. but actions have consequences, and the consequence on a mooney board is that it causes division in a group that has a shared common interest: Mooneys.

so if a moderator comes in an deletes the climate change post, people will yell "I was censored for my views!"  no, you were censored for being OFF TOPIC. or someone else will say "there were so many interesting and useful comments, we are well deleting them???" because they were perpetuating an off topic discussion that brought out more divisiveness 

Am I really the only one who's tired of it?

I am very sorry you are so upset. I have no idea what I said that was so offensive. I am certainly not angry at you or anyone else and I haven’t lashed out at anyone.

 I do have different opinions on some of the things you mentioned, but so what? My opinion and 4 bucks gets you a cup of coffee. I most definitely would not urge a moderator to censor your opinion.

 I honestly think you are reading too much into a post judging by your reaction to this one, because I am truly not trying to be offensive.

If you were closer I would very much like to take you to lunch. You might see I am not the “d###” you suppose.

Peace, my friend,

Torrey

[Andy95W]

[rbp]

8 hours ago, T. Peterson said:

 I honestly think you are reading too much into a post judging by your reaction to this one, because I am truly not trying to be offensive.

 

if by "reading too much into a post", you mean "reading what you write and taking it seriously," then you're right. I should know better

[T. Peterson]

1 hour ago, rbp said:

if by "reading too much into a post", you mean "reading what you write and taking it seriously," then you're right. I should know better

What in the world did I write that was so inflammatory? I am utterly puzzled. You had to have misunderstood me or else I have a blind spot a mile wide which is very possible.

If you will identify my offense I will apologize profusely and sincerely. 
I like people and I don’t want anyone to be hurt, offended or angry with me. 

[carusoam]

Summary…

1) if it isn’t a good experience… good people don’t come back.

2) nobody has the right to be annoying.

3) The objective of MS is to keep everybody involved…

4) When you run into a Mooney pilot at an airport…. Do you ask if they are an MSer?

what do they say?

I get some interesting responses… 

5) Everybody brings value.  Some more than others.

Some, we don’t know how much value they can bring… 

 

Be considerate…

 

Best regards,

-a-