ELT Upgrade

[Tom F]

Going to be upgrading the Ameri-King AK-450 ELT soon.  Has anyone upgraded theirs yet?  Interested to see what upgrades are being done. 2006 Ovation 3

[M20R]

I just asked the same question a couple of days ago. I got some good answers.

 

 

[StevenL757]

3 hours ago, Tom F said:

Going to be upgrading the Ameri-King AK-450 ELT soon.  Has anyone upgraded theirs yet?  Interested to see what upgrades are being done. 2006 Ovation 3

There was an AD issued for the AmeriKing AK450 and 451 ELTs, due to an unusually high number of failures.  Personally, I’d stick with the Artex brand ELT…

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/artex_11-18358.php?clickkey=12011

I just added one to my Ovation a few weeks ago.  Just finished re-riveting the dorsal fin a few days ago after installing/stowing the whip antenna underneath.  A very clean look versus the external antenna.  Rates is a well-known, trouble-free and very solid-performing ELT.  I appreciate those who may have the AK, but I haven’t yet come across an Ovation that has anything other than an Artex installed.

Steve

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Tom F said:

Going to be upgrading the Ameri-King AK-450 ELT soon.  Has anyone upgraded theirs yet?  Interested to see what upgrades are being done. 2006 Ovation 3

See Mooney SI M20-116 on the Mooney website, it covers the replacement.

[0TreeLemur]

I decided on the ACK E04 over the Artex.  Reason: aesthetics.  A couple of years ago we installed an Artex ELT on our C.  The antenna on the Artex has the attractiveness of a black hot dog.  In my opinion, it doesn't look like it belongs on an airplane.  Would look better on a truck.  The ACK antenna is white and looks like it belongs on an airplane. 

Another plus, the ACK costs less.  A negative: it requires periodic changing of a couple of small "specialty" batteries.  Weighed against an ugly antenna, I decided to go with the attractive antenna and change some batteries.

 

[Mooneymite]

In this age of ADS-B and cell phones, does anyone question the necessity (other than the legal requirement) of an ELT east of the Rocky Mountains?   

[ArtVandelay]

In this age of ADS-B and cell phones, does anyone question the necessity (other than the legal requirement) of an ELT east of the Rocky Mountains?   

If you’re not in contact with ATC or you are beyond gliding distance to land (offshore or crossing great lakes). But even then you can just carry a PLB.

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

But even then you can just carry a PLB.

That only works if you're still conscious.

[Jerry 5TJ]

3 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

In this age of ADS-B and cell phones, does anyone question the necessity (other than the legal requirement) of an ELT east of the Rocky Mountains?   

Yes, especially if you have a mode S diversity transponder (so the Aerion satellite interrogators can track your plane reliably) then the ELT is of less utility.  

[ArtVandelay]

That only works if you're still conscious.

Or activate it before the crash.

[802flyer]

On 1/29/2023 at 10:09 PM, ArtVandelay said:

Or activate it before the crash.

Agreed. If the plane is crashing and I'm already unconscious and therefore unable to activate something during the glide, I'm guessing there's not much urgency for rescue recovery. That said, the difference in price between an ELT and a PLB is <1 AMU so I'll be keeping my ELT.

[ilovecornfields]

3 minutes ago, 802flyer said:

Agreed. If the plane is crashing and I'm already unconscious and therefore unable to activate something during the glide, I'm guessing there's not much urgency for rescue recovery. That said, the difference in price between an ELT and a PLB is <1 AMU so I'll be keeping my ELT.

I’m not sure I would agree with that - seizure, hypoxia, CO poisoning. All of those are survivable but can render you unconscious.

[EricJ]

On 1/29/2023 at 3:45 PM, Mooneymite said:

In this age of ADS-B and cell phones, does anyone question the necessity (other than the legal requirement) of an ELT east of the Rocky Mountains?   

I think when it comes to crash survivability you want to give yourself every reasonable chance you can, which includes decreasing the time to location and rescue.   An ELT, especially a 406 MHz ELT connected to a gps, can make a huge difference in that regard, regardless of where you are.

 

[ilovecornfields]

1 minute ago, EricJ said:

I think when it comes to crash survivability you want to give yourself every reasonable chance you can, which includes decreasing the time to location and rescue.   An ELT, especially a 406 MHz ELT connected to a gps, can make a huge difference in that regard, regardless of where you are.

 

Having spent many hours of my life searching for injured people in ambiguous locations I most certainly agree with this.

[802flyer]

28 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said:

I’m not sure I would agree with that - seizure, hypoxia, CO poisoning. All of those are survivable but can render you unconscious.

I guess my thought was that if I'm incapacitated and unable to attempt some sort of controlled impact, any reversible medical issue will be superseded by an irreversible trauma issue.

Edit to add: I have a 406MHz ELT with GPS and wouldn't give it up even if regs changed. The post above about a PLB just made me reflect that being conscious enough to activate something (ELT or PLB) in the air and attempt a landing probably has the best prognosis, whereas being unconscious and unable to attempt a landing has an exceedingly grim prognosis regardless of your emergency beacon equipment.

[Tom F]

100% agree.  This post has taken an interesting path.  Enjoying the banter.

[802flyer]

This thread spurred me to do a bit of reading on my ELT (ACK E-04) and I learned that it broadcasts on 121.5 for a full 50 seconds after activation before the first 406MHz burst is transmitted.

So if I'm ever unlucky enough to be setting up for a forced landing in the back-country, I will hopefully remember this conversation and activate the ELT as early as possible before impact so that one or more 406MHz pulses are sent in the air, before there's any potential damage to the system.

Hopefully I never need this information, but I'm now extra thankful for the banter.

[ilovecornfields]

47 minutes ago, 802flyer said:

I guess my thought was that if I'm incapacitated and unable to attempt some sort of controlled impact, any reversible medical issue will be superseded by an irreversible trauma issue.

 

Some Mooneys are apparently equipped with autoland.

https://midwestflyer.com/?p=13674

[Bolter]

I am in the process of installing Artex 345 in my Ovation.  Among other reasons, I was in a seminar on crash survival.  Giving search and rescue the best chance of finding you is important.  I no longer consider the PLB and 406ELT as redundant, but as complementary tools.  

I chose Artex 345 because my preferred shop has installed them before, and labor accounts for as much or more than the unit cost.  I suggest you ask your shop what they like, and maybe save a few bucks in labor's learning curve.   

As background for the problems with the AmeriKing's (AK 450), see this article: FAA issues AD for Ameri-King ELTs - AOPA

• They had all of their approvals to manufacture yanked by the FAA. 
• I do not know what their quality shortcomings were, but apparently there were numerous ELT failures.  

-dan

[802flyer]

11 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said:

Some Mooneys are apparently equipped with autoland.

https://midwestflyer.com/?p=13674

Whoa, incredible story. Thanks!

[EricJ]

9 minutes ago, Bolter said:

I am in the process of installing Artex 345 in my Ovation.  Among other reasons, I was in a seminar on crash survival.  Giving search and rescue the best chance of finding you is important.  I no longer consider the PLB and 406ELT as redundant, but as complementary tools.  

I chose Artex 345 because my preferred shop has installed them before, and labor accounts for as much or more than the unit cost.  I suggest you ask your shop what they like, and maybe save a few bucks in labor's learning curve.   

As background for the problems with the AmeriKing's (AK 450), see this article: FAA issues AD for Ameri-King ELTs - AOPA

• They had all of their approvals to manufacture yanked by the FAA. 
• I do not know what their quality shortcomings were, but apparently there were numerous ELT failures.  

-dan

It wasn't really the ELTs.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/california-company-continued-to-sell-bogus-aircraft-parts-despite-faa-cease-and-desist-order/19756/

[ilovecornfields]

1 hour ago, 802flyer said:

Whoa, incredible story. Thanks!

@DanM20C gets us all a discount codes for CO detectors in case we’re not all as lucky as he was.

[carusoam]

+1 for giving yourself every opportunity to survive a simple mishap…

+1 for don’t disappoint your family… somebody will be frantically looking for you…

1) Dan’s CO experience is awesome… and a reminder that cell phones may not be found, or be useable, or working at the final resting place…

2) New cell phones however, have a nice satellite communication system…

3) We lost a Mooney a couple of years ago, (non MSer), plane was near the road he was following… but hidden from sight by snowfall… found later during the spring thaw… family found MS…. Canada…

 

For the LBs… the antenna is often hidden under the faring… with some confusion of how to handle the length and other details…

Best regards,

-a-

[Pinecone]

If you are not talking to ATC, they will not notice you are gone.

I agree that ELT and PLB are complementary.  The ELT is required, and the PLBs are not that expensive.   Also, if you go down in water, the ELT will be under water, while you could be floating with the PLB.

If the search and rescue people get there soon enough, triangulating the cell phone signal is what they use if the ELT is not transmitting the GPS location.   CAP still has the capability to DF the 121.5 signal from the air or on the ground.  But they have been discussing no long equipping new aircraft with VHF DF capability.

 

[DXB]

Just don't get a ACK E-04 ELT, total POS.  8 years after install, it has started false alarming relentlessly. And when it goes off, it's very hard to silence - keeps triggering again and again. Company claims adjacent wiring caused it but nothing was changed for years before it started acting up. I disabled it   I make sure my PLB is handy for now.  I'll replace it with an Artex one in the next year ($$$) - they even made a version of their panel mount controller that fits into the cutout for the ACK because so many folks need to replace those.