EricJ Posted April 22, 2022 Report Share Posted April 22, 2022 I'm just pondering the significance of this being posted on 4/20. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted April 22, 2022 Report Share Posted April 22, 2022 2 hours ago, rbp said: It’s not about giving away profits to Amazon. it’s about reducing costs by outsourcing fulfillment, which not a core part of the business Someday down the road that might be an option when they have parts, but they don’t have any inventory to distribute at the moment. But even down the road when it’s a part they make in Kerrville, to ship it off to a distribution center who will then ship it off to the customer doesn’t sound like savings to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted April 22, 2022 Report Share Posted April 22, 2022 Today’s needs… Tomorrow’s needs… Nice to haves… Interested in having… Might, could, or would, do it at an MSC… Might, could, or would, do it in Kerrville… Sooooo many NEW Mooney owners… have things they want to accomplish… and many have no idea who to call for what… the annual turnover rate is quite large… each new MSer gets a welcome aboard message… letting them know they are in the right place… Often, They have no idea what an MSC is… which one they should use… or why they should use it… Trying to call Mooney directly… doesn’t come across like a helpful idea to everybody… similarly, I bought a pre-owned Corvette… never thought to call GM directly… At least the Chevy dealer seems like a logical place to go… I had a challenge in Y2K… I needed a POH for a new2me M20C… on a whim… I dialed the factory and by luck, spoke to Bill Wheat… the guy who signed my M20C’s log book 35 years earlier…. Bill was an awesome Mooney pilot, engineer, service guy, knew most of the answers… when he didn’t know the answer, he knew who did… It would be cool if there was a marketing/sales guy that could help guide people in the right direction… somebody with a technical background, that has flown Mooneys, VFR and IFR…. It would be great if they knew something about the parts business… There is one awesome MSC around here… that answers tech questions every day of the week…. Anything from what is this? To what fastener should be here? Or what procedure is used to balance the fuel system on a Continental engine in an M20K? And… how do I fix this? The aircraft business isn’t all that unique… so many industrial machine businesses struggle with the same challenges… it’s part of their realm… getting to know the thousands of customers they have… even if they only buy one machine in their lifetime… and it’s a used one… Mooney owners live in 24 different time zones, in both hemispheres… speak a multitude of languages…. And have a few common goals… Speed, efficiency, safety…. Today… Tomorrow… Into the future… A few will graduate to flying turbines… A couple will go twin… Some just need a five seater…. Hmmmmm… that GW increase may be looking good here…. There is a constant desire to get 11 donuts and not have to pay more than 1amu for something that costs five cents to make…. Marketing idea…. Buy the mounting service from the MSC… get a dozen donuts for free… It would be really cool if the new donuts were somehow better than the donuts made 50years ago… something is needed here for the GW increase… the current donuts are having difficulty with the weight of the LBs… PP thoughts only… Can we at least say the Mooney company is not for sale? Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted April 22, 2022 Report Share Posted April 22, 2022 The Service Center is only as good as the parts inventory. In the early 1990's Jacques Esculier saved Mooney by realizing that the primary asset was a factory with employees skilled at producing aerospace components. He got the factory ISO 9000 certified and, partly owing to low labor costs in west Texas, was able to win contracts to manufacture components for Boeing and other aerospace companies. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted April 22, 2022 Report Share Posted April 22, 2022 I’ve been part of the Boeing parts manufacturing. Boeing is very predatory, let me tell you how Boeing works, you get a contract to build parts, it’s a lucrative contract you can make money on it, you may hire more people, maybe buy more or newer machines. Your not getting rich, but your making money and Boeing does pay on time. Then next year comes along, you think your sitting fine, you have always been on time or early, and your quality is good, but Boeing shows up and says the new contract will pay 25% less, so you either take it and make no profit, possibly lose money or lay off people and what about those new machines? Your at Boeing’s mercy, and it was intentional. Many want to outsource their excess capacity, Fred Ayres was good at that, at one time he was building ALL of the McDonald Douglass 600 Helicopter fuselages, and honestly didn’t make a dime off of them. It’s tough to make money in aircraft manufacturing, look at how many have tried and how many have failed, they weren’t stupid or lazy, it’s just tough. There is money in parts, not a whole lot but you can stay alive and keep a few fed, not many but a few. Little Maule is still alive, their model may be worth going to see, they are good down to Earth people 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boilermonkey Posted April 22, 2022 Report Share Posted April 22, 2022 The argument of keeping multi tiered distribution alive for parts makes no sense. The costs are what the costs are. Centralizing reduces the costs, yes it requires investment to centralize, but it's bar better for the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted April 22, 2022 Report Share Posted April 22, 2022 (edited) The way I see it, and I’ve lived it as spares was one of my jobs is that the manufacturer, should manufacture. They aren’t sellers, they aren’t parts stockers, the experience isn’t there. If you are selling direct better add about three people to do so, one thing you will get is a whole lot of parts quotes that don’t result in parts sales, these quotes are used in insurence claims, but for the repairs alternate parts sources will be used, and let me tell you they want these quotes to cover every nut, bolt and washer, it’s very time consuming. So do you charge for quotes? if you do many will be outraged of course or do you just eat the labor which drives up parts cost? If possible it’s far, far better to let the factory do what it does and that’s build parts, and let the dealers stock them and sell them, provide quotes etc. Unless of course you decide to get fully into the parts selling business, but do that and it’s likely you may lose your Service Network. Same with opening a Repair Station, your service network probably won’t like that, they will see it as being in competition with you. Damned if you do, Damned if you don’t. I hope it’s a Certified Repair Station and not a service center working under someone’s IA, a Repair Station carries more weight with the FAA. At least that’s my experience anyway, but writing that Repair Station manual and getting it approved is a job, I gave up and hired a technical writer to do it, and it probably took 6 months with all the re-writes. I didn’t often didn’t do customer work in our repair station, it existed primarily for warranty work. The day an aircraft gets its Airworthiness Certificate is the day a manufacturer is no longer allowed to work on it, it goes from being manufactured to being maintained, which is an entirely different division of the FAA. Manufacturing your under MIDO, Manufacturing Inspection District Office, maintaining is FSDO, Flight Standards. Those two don’t ever really meet. ACO, Aircraft Certification Office and MIDO do though. Edited April 22, 2022 by A64Pilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted April 22, 2022 Report Share Posted April 22, 2022 Making money depends a lot on how you manage an operation. There are examples of thriving and failing businesses in every industry. Cal Pacific Airmotive owns the P-51 type and production certificates and is also a certified repair station. They aren’t building new airplanes, but they’re doing pretty well manufacturing parts and repairing and modifying existing airplanes. It’s an interesting operation, and Lori Atkinson lives to show it off if you ever find yourself at KSNS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcstealth Posted April 22, 2022 Report Share Posted April 22, 2022 Come on guys, and lady's. Jonny started this thread as a Hello, heads up and feel good post. Let's all leave it at that. He won't come back and update this thread now that all he reads is pounding on the head kind of stuff. 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted April 22, 2022 Report Share Posted April 22, 2022 Come on guys, and lady's. Jonny started this thread as a Hello, heads up and feel good post. Let's all leave it at that. He won't come back and update this thread now that all he reads is pounding on the head kind of stuff. I don’t think anyone is being malicious. There is a lot of owners with real world experience who have commented. Jonny is in a tough spot. He needs cash infusion but to get that cash infusion he needs to show a viable bottom line and a solid business case. Maybe I missed something on the thread but what I read were people providing input as to what owners would like to see. And suggestions on viable ways to keep Mooney on the correct side of the ledger. As a 31 year owner, I want them to succeed. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbp Posted April 22, 2022 Report Share Posted April 22, 2022 A good CEO knows that people need to vent. It shouldn’t make him no longer want to engage. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted April 22, 2022 Report Share Posted April 22, 2022 I don’t mean to be beating, quite the opposite, just trying to explain to others that’s it’s tough, at a glance it would seem to be a simple problem but it’s not I assure you. Bottom line as I see it is we can do our best to understand and support and then maybe our parts supply won’t die, or we can sit back and complain and watch our parts source disappear. By the way that will negatively effect your aircrafts value as well. To say nothing about being one part away from being grounded, possibly permanently. I can only imagine the V tail bonanza guys sweating hoping this isn’t the year excessive corrosion is found on the ruddervator skins. I don’t want to join them in that. He did come on and post, let’s not run him off, frankly we need him and he needs us 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted April 22, 2022 Report Share Posted April 22, 2022 Speaking openly is always helpful… Speaking Respectfully garners extra points! Real experience from within the industry can’t be beat… How that information gets used Or perceived… is up to the reader…. Some readers have more amazing skills than others… PP thoughts only, I have read a few posts around MS…. Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixstring2k Posted April 23, 2022 Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 On 4/21/2022 at 1:09 PM, Boilermonkey said: It's currently broken. The response times and supply are ridiculous, even before the current supply chain issues. Moreover the MSC have a long wait lists to get work done, I don't think the parts inquires or sales should be a cornerstone of their business. What the current distribution system does is frustrate owners, frustrate A&Ps, reduce supply, and put the fleet at risk of improper/sufficient maintenance. This is more of a global issue, I work for a major and we are having supply issues I can’t even imagine the difficulties they are having keeping the lights on as it is, they probably can’t cover the amount of people it would take to have people taking calls and research parts for owners. Maybe in the future but not now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeBee Posted April 23, 2022 Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 13 hours ago, A64Pilot said: I don’t mean to be beating, quite the opposite, just trying to explain to others that’s it’s tough, at a glance it would seem to be a simple problem but it’s not I assure you. Bottom line as I see it is we can do our best to understand and support and then maybe our parts supply won’t die, or we can sit back and complain and watch our parts source disappear. By the way that will negatively effect your aircrafts value as well. To say nothing about being one part away from being grounded, possibly permanently. I can only imagine the V tail bonanza guys sweating hoping this isn’t the year excessive corrosion is found on the ruddervator skins. I don’t want to join them in that. He did come on and post, let’s not run him off, frankly we need him and he needs us Actually, the Bonanza guys are OK. Skins are now available, eye watering price, 17K for a full set, but last I heard they are in stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted April 23, 2022 Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, GeeBee said: Actually, the Bonanza guys are OK. Skins are now available, eye watering price, 17K for a full set, but last I heard they are in stock. I’m glad to hear that, but you get my point. There are items on our Aircraft similar to those skins, even something as simple as a little spring can be a show stopper and if there is an accident, what used to be an expensive fix becomes what scraps the airplane. I really don’t want mine scrapped, I’ve got too much work in it, and I don’t want it grounded for months and months while I search for a part. Plus if our aircraft do become orphaned, it will negatively affect value, we need Mooney to stay alive Edited April 23, 2022 by A64Pilot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeBee Posted April 23, 2022 Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 Given the age of the fleet, the economic and regulatory structure months for a part will likely be the "de rigueur" from here on out for most of GA. Depressing I know, but take heart, those new "whizz bang" airplanes are loaded with proprietary parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Posted April 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 Hey Folks: I'm reading this thread with respect. I'm thick skinned, so you won't drive me off and healthy criticism is just that. What I can say is that some ideas being tossed around are being made in a vacuum. There are heftier headwinds than meet the eye and the factory is dealing with an inheritance that weighs things down as well. So, on top of building a self-sustaining business we're dealing with our past luggage. I promise, we do know what we're doing. We understand the parts business and we are looking at the most efficient ways to increase margin while not upsetting the Mooney fleet. It's a fine balance as your comments illustrate. So, please keep the dialogue going. I'm pretty good at pulling the hidden gems from the hyperbole and I'm alert enough to know what I don't know. In the meantime, bringing your airplane to the Factory Service Center really does help the bottom line. We've been getting a lot of calls from folks looking for customer support rather than to set up appointments. We still do customer support and Frank Crawford should get a metal for the number of emails and calls he returns. But I respectfully ask that you consider letting us do a pre-buy, or repair, or an annual. That is what would help the most at the moment. Plus I'd get to meet you in person and you can criticize or praise me in person Jonny 12 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooneyMitch Posted April 23, 2022 Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 This is historic and extremely welcomed! Traditionally in the Mooney past, Kerrville has not given too much of a hoot for used Mooney owners! They were intent on selling new airplanes. As the world turns, now Jonny is asking us for help! I love this, as it is our chance to step up and help our beloved brand to succeed!! Let’s take the opportunity!!! It’s a win win for both us and Mooney. p.s. So good to hear Frank is still on the team helping all.... Go Frank! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted April 23, 2022 Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 On 4/21/2022 at 11:15 AM, Culver LFA said: Just a low priority idea to add to your huge list of more important things to do, Maule has been hosting an annual fly-in at the factory for the last 10 years or so, it seems to be a pretty popular event. I can tell you I would be excited to have more Mooney specific events to attend and having something at the Mooney factory would be pretty great. I think if forum members here saw what you have going on and what the factory has to offer it would be a big boost in moral and the word would spread fast that Mooney is still in the game. Do I even dare suggest a $100 cover charge per person to help keep the lights on? I'd be happy to pay it. I think it would be a great experience and worth it for the Mooney fellowship (and maybe some lunch). I think this is a great idea. I'd be happy to pay the $100 on January 1 every year, whether or not I went to the event. (I don't even want to think about how many random aviation-related memberships and subscriptions I already have - none of which are as important to me as keeping the lights on at the Mooney factory.) I was a little bit discouraged at the last factory shutdown, in part because I've never been there and always thought it would be fun to visit. An official annual event just to kick some tires and see what's going on would be fun. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted April 23, 2022 Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Jonny said: Hey Folks: I'm reading this thread with respect. I'm thick skinned, so you won't drive me off and healthy criticism is just that. What I can say is that some ideas being tossed around are being made in a vacuum. There are heftier headwinds than meet the eye and the factory is dealing with an inheritance that weighs things down as well. So, on top of building a self-sustaining business we're dealing with our past luggage. I promise, we do know what we're doing. We understand the parts business and we are looking at the most efficient ways to increase margin while not upsetting the Mooney fleet. It's a fine balance as your comments illustrate. So, please keep the dialogue going. I'm pretty good at pulling the hidden gems from the hyperbole and I'm alert enough to know what I don't know. In the meantime, bringing your airplane to the Factory Service Center really does help the bottom line. We've been getting a lot of calls from folks looking for customer support rather than to set up appointments. We still do customer support and Frank Crawford should get a metal for the number of emails and calls he returns. But I respectfully ask that you consider letting us do a pre-buy, or repair, or an annual. That is what would help the most at the moment. Plus I'd get to meet you in person and you can criticize or praise me in person Jonny I'm bringing mine in Tuesday for an appointment Weds & Thurs. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooneyMitch Posted April 23, 2022 Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 6 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said: I'm bringing mine in Tuesday for an appointment Weds & Thurs. And so we begin!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriscalandro Posted April 23, 2022 Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 How much is a Mooney factory annual before parts and squawks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooneyMitch Posted April 23, 2022 Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, chriscalandro said: How much is a Mooney factory annual before parts and squawks? Contact Mooney Service Center to discover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted April 23, 2022 Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, toto said: I was a little bit discouraged at the last factory shutdown, in part because I've never been there and always thought it would be fun to visit. An official annual event just to kick some tires and see what's going on would be fun. I think I restarted the Maule fly-ins 15 or 20 years ago when I organized the first one they had in years, we had a Bar-B-Que and tied it in with the yearly Thomasville fly-in. There was a gap in their fly-ins they go way back I think. Then in either 88 or 89 I flew an AH-64 from Ft. Hood to Mooney to tour the plant, I remember the guy who ran the press that made gear doors etc was a former AH-1 driver. The plant went on break to watch us leave At the time I was working on my airplane Commercial / instrument and flying brand new M20 AT’s If you can make fly-ins they are worth going to, I need to make Maules this year if they are still doing them, I’ve not seen David in quite awhile. Edited April 23, 2022 by A64Pilot 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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