pattern entry

[jetdriven]

So do you folks use a 45 degree downwind entry, a crosswind entry, straight in, or some other technique to enter the pattern? The place I fly at there seems to be a great consternation about the matter, and I would like to hear who does what. 

[TonyPynes]

I use the 45 unless directed otherwise by ATC. but then I am still a new pilot and that is what was ingrained.

[John Pleisse]

This is a massive peeve of mine. FDK is so busy, they are finally going to put in a tower (Feb 2012, amen). You have the overfly circle to 45 crowd, the liars who say they are doing an approach to not have to fly a pattern, the people who switch runways with 3 KTS of wind change and then there are the CFI's allowing students to be blown 2 miles downwind.. On take off, you have the intersection cut-in-front-of-crowd, the immdiate turn out crowd (usually the wrong way), all complicated by the need the entire runway for thrust reversers on my 172 before I finally turn off crowd. I actually had a TBM 700 not switch to CTAF on approach and land opposite runway to me forcing my AC into the weeds this summer. He was at fault by a mile and I reported him to the FISDO. Flying a proper pattern is everything. 45 is the proper way...anything else is incorrect.

Nevermind runway incursions....a seperate thread maybe.

 

[Hank]

I'll use whichever is easier based on the direction of my approach:

- from the same side as downwind:  45º entry

- from the opposide side as downwind:  midfield crossover; at short fields like home [3001'], crossover at the numbers.

For practice approaches, I'll breakoff at some point depending on traffic and either miss or join the pattern; if there's no one around, straight in. Other than that exception, I don't like straight-ins, as not many places I go have VASI/PAPI lights. Flying a regular pattern is much better.

If towered and operating, I don't often have much of a choice.

[carusoam]

Untowered: I'm with Hank up to the point of straight-ins.  45 is best. crosswind over the runway, next. break-off on practice approach prior to the pattern.

My airport is not extremely busy, but a straight in will probably confuse someone that is new or not speaking or somehow hidden.....

Towered airports: I do my best to follow their instructions....knowing that "report right downwind" means "keep your plane to the left of the runway, sir"

Best regards,

-a-

[kerry]

I do a 45 at midfield(sometimes crossing midfield) and enter a down wind.  I announce my alt and some kind of reference point e.g. crossing midfield from the west or enter down wind from the east.  If I hear a lot of traffic calling out and nothing is making sense then I hang out a ways from the traffic pattern and make controlled maneuvers until it quiets down or I can make sense of it. 

[xftrplt]

Quote: N4352H

Flying a proper pattern is everything. 45 is the proper way...anything else is incorrect.

[rob]

+1

The 45 degree entry is not the only legal one. This subject was discussed not long ago in the "Dogfight" section of the AOPA magazine, and if I recall correctly, one point of view was that the 45 degree entry was actually less safe in certain circumstances... I'm inclined to agree.

[jetdriven]

http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/2011/january/feature_dogfight_pattern_entry.html

 

 

http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182100-1.html

[Jeff_S]

Quote: rob

The 45 degree entry is not the only legal one. This subject was discussed not long ago in the "Dogfight" section of the AOPA magazine, and if I recall correctly, one point of view was that the 45 degree entry was actually less safe in certain circumstances... I'm inclined to agree.

[carusoam]

xftr,

As a typical PPL student, I was not trained in the technique of the overhead break...

http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/combatlanding/combatlanding.htm

So I googled it.  Of course the description I got included 6g turns....?   An abbreviated traffic pattern with 6g turns!

You probably get much attention when you do this in front of a crowd.  A full speed low pass in the Mooney gets similar attention.

Its just not seen every day...

For me, part of the landing checklist:  pointy part forwards, clean side up, don't hit anything hard, means be predictable in the traffic pattern.

I agree with "airmanship." there are days when you are alone and others with six students in a mix of 150s and 172s....

Best regards,

-a-

[John Pleisse]

Quote: xftrplt

 

Each has its time and place.  Choosing the appropriate one is called airmanship.

[jetdriven]

So does the guy on downwind or the guy on a 4 mile final have the right of way?

 

or a better question, who has right of way of someone is on the 45 and someone is making a crosswind entry?

 

 

[201er]

Thanks for the link. What I get from the article and what I've felt all along is that students are best taught a single way of entering the pattern to keep it uniform and give them time to get established. For experienced pilots there is nothing wrong with joining the pattern elsewhere assuming it is not causing conflict to others.

Another reason it's good that the beginners in the skyhawk are always flying their 45 downwind approaches is cause the rest of us can just sneak in on the crosswind/straight in and have our plane safely parked before they touch down.

[201er]

Quote: jetdriven

So does the guy on downwind or the guy on a 4 mile final have the right of way?

 

or a better question, who has right of way of someone is on the 45 and someone is making a crosswind entry?

[gregwatts]

Quote: jetdriven

So does the guy on downwind or the guy on a 4 mile final have the right of way?

 

or a better question, who has right of way of someone is on the 45 and someone is making a crosswind entry?

 

Whoever has the Mooney!

[jetdriven]

What do the FARs and the AIM say?    Not only about right of way but patterns in general?

[Hank]

Quote: jetdriven

What do the FARs and the AIM say?    Not only about right of way but patterns in general?

[John Pleisse]

Quote: jetdriven

So does the guy on downwind or the guy on a 4 mile final have the right of way?

 

or a better question, who has right of way of someone is on the 45 and someone is making a crosswind entry?

 

 

[jlunseth]

I do the same as Hank and agree with xftrplt on what is legal.  The regs. only require that all turns in the pattern must be to the left unless the pattern indicators at the airport show right traffic (91.126 & .127).  They do not mandate the 45 entry, or any other type of entry.  This means that a straight in is legal, but it needs to be a long straight in.  I read, I believe it was posted on the Red Board, an admin. proceeding where a pilot was found to have violated the regs. by making a right turn to a straight in too close to the airport.  There is no reg. that says it must be 3 mi., that is just what the opinion seemed to say in the disciplinary proceeding. 

I personally don't like the 45 entry method.  I don't like it because I have seen aircraft go whizzing by uncontrolled airports, at pattern altitude, just a few miles from the airport.  Your attention is on the pattern and a crop duster or just someone flying around, comes by from an unanticipated direction.  Not good.  I also don't like the classic 45 entry, which involves an overflight of the airport in the direction of intended landing, a turn out at 45, and turn back at 45, and a right turn to join the pattern.  I just think that you spend too much time with your back to the pattern in the 45 turn out, and it is too easy to lose track of what is going on in the pattern during the turn back.  I prefer the midfield crosswind, with the crossover at the takeoff end of the runway and 500 feet above pattern.  But I will use any entry that works as long as it complies with the regs.  and I get a good view of the pattern.

[John Pleisse]

Byron,

I suppose your traffic pattern is uncontrolled and the "consternation over the matter" resulted from lack of order (like most places)? If this were the case, I would suggest keying the mic at 5500 msl, while simultaneously reading this thread and executing the overhead break. Just kidding....that would violate FAR's .

[carusoam]

Another piece of awareness is anouncing along with where you are in the pattern, who you are behind....

"mooney turning base, - second, behind the 172 on final"  this at least announces to the world your intention to land next and lets the guy in front of you know that you are aware of him.  Verbal accidents are preferred over real accidents...

Our airport rarely gets beyond "third to land".

According to the "AOPA dog fight" article, a well executed full pattern procedure was completed in under two minutes. 

I have greatest amount of patience in the pattern.  Aside from cross controlled stalls, bumping into other planes on final seem to be a common cause for falling aluminum....

But you guys all know this...

Best regards,

-a-

[xftrplt]

Carusoam:  Info on the Overhead Pattern may be found in the AIM, Chap. 5, Sec 4, Para 27.  (I’d suggest not using gaming sites to gain accurate aeronautical information.)

 

N4352H:  Airmanship includes, but is not limited to, “observing (the) right of way,” which is why I said each entry has its place.

[MARZ]

Quote: carusoam

xftr,

As a typical PPL student, I was not trained in the technique of the overhead break...

http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/combatlanding/combatlanding.htm

 

Checked the link - I think I'll give it a shot once I find them "Q" "I" and "spacebar" controls in my plane!! 

LOL

[aerobat95]

I personally use the 45 entry as that was taught to me when I was getting my PPL.  Personally I like flying into towered airfields....uncontrolled fields can be scary.  I have had someone land opposite direction on me and I have also had someone pull out on the runway to takeoff when I was on very short final.  But back to the entry, if I am not on the pattern side....I will overfly the field +500 feet and then maneuver to get on a 45 to downwind.  I wish the regs would just standardize it.  Another annoyance is people in small aircraft that fly bomber patterns....super wide and super long finals.  4 mile finals at 60kts is rediculous.  They can gunk up the pattern pretty badly.  If the airfield has no one at it though....I will sometimes do an overhead just for fun.