Trying to fill portable O2 losing my mind

[Unit74]

Look on Craigslist for an O2 cylinder, buy a trans fill or build one yourself. That’s what I did after finding it impossible to get a fill on a small tank. FBOs do it sometimes and an obscene price.  I’ve been on the same welding tank for 3 years. $50/exchange and not a single question asked. 
 

ABO? Give me a F-fin break. Script? You must be kidding me? That’s like needing a script for a freaking a glass of water. Only the ignorant are buying “ABO”.

 

 

[Hank]

4 hours ago, The Other Red Baron said:

Yep that's exactly what I've got.  Came with the plane we purchased I was hoping to just use what I've got.  (Not sure how the previous owners filled it.)  I wonder if I can pull the PPL trick here..

 

Tell them you are an artist with scrap metal and need to cut / weld from time to time, and you bought the bottle at a yard sale as a spare.

[McMooney]

Buy a bottle with a cga 540 fitting then just get a 540 regulator.

won't need an explanation when you go to the oxygen supply house 

 

[gsxrpilot]

3 hours ago, V1VRV2 said:

I hope everyone is using aviators oxygen. It has no moisture which could freeze on the valve blocking oxygen flow. Just checking! 

Shit! I had no idea. I've been breathing welding O2 at altitudes up to FL270 for years now. I've had ice on the windshield, and maybe on the wings... (I wouldn't know for sure of course). But never ice in the O2 

[jaylw314]

If you get a new O2 bottle, get one with a CGA 540 valve installed.  I suspect it would cost just as much to replace the medical post valve (CGA 870) with one, and it's not something I'd want to do myself.

My local welding supply shop fills my O2 bottles.  I have a green D cylinder with a CGA 540 valve.  Occasionally, someone will give me shit about needing a prescription until I point out the CGA 540 valve, and then they go "oh, okay, no problem."  Also tell them you don't need "USP oxygen", which is code speak for medical oxygen.

Otherwise, I tell them it's a backup oxygen supply for a saltwater aquarium, and that usually stops any questions.

[Marauder]

Finally found a picture! Hey Danb when you coming over to fill up?




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[carusoam]

1) The proper industrial valve on the bottle does all the talking....

2) Having the PPL works great around the airport where it can be recognized... but costs a lot for the recognition...

3) Risk of H20 Comes the first time you use the bottle... if it was open to the atmosphere prior to filling on a rainy day... Dirt is equally a concern at this time...

4) It is incredibly challenging to get any moisture into the system, even when you would like to add some... (post expansion)

5) Fire is always a concern when O2 is concentrated and allowed to escape/leak...  It can light any grease or oil on fire just with contact, no spark or flame required....
 

6) Marauder shows a very nice installation, including the safety straps... for some reason, falling O2 bottles... fall right on their valves Breaking them off... causing a Rocket effect...

 

PP summary only, everyone should have low cost O2 available... for welding, breathing, scuba diving, and aquarium-izing  
 

Best regards,

-a-

[squeaky.stow]

On 7/2/2020 at 12:18 PM, ArtVandelay said:

Try a scuba place.

I hope nobody is actually doing this. Scuba tanks are not filled with Oxygen. They are filled with plain old compressed air, which is about 21% oxygen. If you put on a mask at altitude from a tank filled with compressed air, you will get exactly the same air coming out of the mask as the air in the cabin. At the same pressure. 
The reason we breath pure 02 in a non pressurized airplane is that there is not enough atmospheric pressure up there to force 21% 02 into our bloodstream so we make up for that by increasing the concentration to 100%. This only works up to about 30,000’. After that we need pressure breathing. 
Conversely, if you breath 100% O2 while scuba diving, you will die.

[carusoam]

9 minutes ago, squeaky.stow said:

I hope nobody is actually doing this. Scuba tanks are not filled with Oxygen. They are filled with plain old compressed air, which is about 21% oxygen. If you put on a mask at altitude from a tank filled with compressed air, you will get exactly the same air coming out of the mask as the air in the cabin. At the same pressure. 
The reason we breath pure 02 in a non pressurized airplane is that there is not enough atmospheric pressure up there to force 21% 02 into our bloodstream so we make up for that by increasing the concentration to 100%. This only works up to about 30,000’. After that we need pressure breathing. 
Conversely, if you breath 100% O2 while scuba diving, you will die.

Depends on how deep a diver you are...

They are discussing Nitrox...

 

Which is a blend with a controlled amount of various gasses in it.... leaving out the stuff they didn’t want for deep dives...

So... these dive shops have the pure O2...

 

There are some simple tests that can be used to make sure you have O2 and didn’t accidentally get air...
 

PP thoughts only, Padi open water certified, but not current...   

Best regards,

-a-

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrox

[squeaky.stow]

I stand corrected on the capabilities of scuba shops. Apologies for implying that they might be as dumb as me. 

[The Other Red Baron]

Finally found a place that will do it for $40.  Not a "deal" but I doubt I'll get it filled often enough to care too much.  If I do find myself using it a lot I'm definitely just making my own transfill setup as suggested. 

[Ross Taylor]

4 hours ago, The Other Red Baron said:

Finally found a place that will do it for $40.  Not a "deal" but I doubt I'll get it filled often enough to care too much.  If I do find myself using it a lot I'm definitely just making my own transfill setup as suggested. 

Is it a medical supply place or did you find a welding or air gas shop for that?

[kortopates]

Only medical O2 requires a doctors prescription  - not welding O2 and ABO. Some gas shops in my area actually have a different storefront for Medical use which is not where you want to go.

Although ALL oxygen comes from the same dry source from any gas provider these days there is an important difference in the way the tanks are filled - or so I am told. All O2 cylinders that are for breathing are required to be cleaned as part of the filling process.  Where I buy it, ABO is really cheap so I pay a few bucks extra for it, and truth be told I want to run the risk of getting violated as an A&P/IA if an inspector from the FAA drops by. But I would think if you let your air shops know what your O2 was for, they would do the same cleaning of your tank even for welding 02 with your refill. (But to be fully effective, its probably important to be sure you started with a clean tank after the last hydo or inspection and have every re-fill done with the cleaning regimen; which means you would need to own your tanks like myself and always have to wait for them to refill your own tanks.) 

But ask your shop, that's what I did and they told me about the different cleaning regimen for breathable O2. With my owned ABO tanks, I am in and out in 10 minutes by exchanging them. 

I have found not all shops give reasonable pricing on ABO. My original nearby provider pricing kept going up higher and higher, so I switched over to welding O2 for awhile purely for $. But I became increasingly concerned about risk of being sanctioned since I keep the bottles in my hangar and found a much more affordable industrial gas supplier I now use with a bit of drive but which enabled me to go back to ABO at cheaper prices than my local  national brand welding O2 supplier prices.   

[4cornerflyer]

In the mountain west most FBO's and maintenance shops fill oxygen. The cost varies by a factor of 10 and would likely correlate with avgas prices and ramp fees. Look at an airport directory and see if any airports close to you offer oxygen and call them.

I agree that for you the easiest thing would be to just get a prescription and use the local medical supplier. Insurance is only involved if you expect them to pay for it. 

Jon at FMN

 

 

[The Other Red Baron]

18 hours ago, Ross Taylor said:

Is it a medical supply place or did you find a welding or air gas shop for that?

The one damn FBO I didn't expect to do oxygen fills so I never called them until wasting my time everywhere else...

[Jeph357]

On 7/2/2020 at 11:16 AM, Marauder said:

I have a 3 tank system in my hangar. There are 5 of us in the "O2 Pool" (1 Bravo owner, 1 J owners, 2 F owners and a pilot who we think likes to suck down O2). We elected to do rent versus buy cylinders and get stuck with the rental & "hazmat" fees for having the cylinders. The O2 by itself is really cheap. So, if you can get a couple of people interested, it is not a big deal to have them refill the big cylinders so you can refill your smaller ones.

I think why these gas companies are getting more tight on their controls is because it is clear these small tanks are not likely to be used for welding. There is a liability to dispatching O2 for medicinal usage and I am sure that plays into it. I also wonder if the COVID situation isn't playing into this somehow. Oh wait! More fake news!

What brand/type of regulator are you using to refill portable tanks? Haven't really looked into it much but reading the thread felt like a pertainate question.

 

On 7/2/2020 at 12:01 PM, DonMuncy said:

Find someone on your field that has a large tank they use to fill their own. The fittings and tubing to transfill are very cheap.

Or come to my hangar and I will do it for you.

 

[larryb]

Whatever you do you want O2 to be cheap and easy, not expensive and difficult. You don’t want the expense and difficulty to factor in flight planning. At least, I don’t. One trip to the FBO to incompletely fill my little portable for $35 and I bought a transfill setup. Then I bought the O2D2 and never looked back. I use it every single flight.

[Marauder]

 

I purchased the Aerox transfill adapter for one tank.


https://www.aerox.com/product-p/fa540-72-g.htm

After I purchased it, another MooneySpacer turned me onto eBay’s selection of transfill adapters. I used them to add on the remaining two tanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Jeph357]

@Marauder  Thank you sir

[Yetti]

transfill adapter ebay   https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=transfill+adapter&_sacat=0

 

[Yetti]

for your vet business

[Guest]

Something to consider for those who think that their local FBO is ripping them off for their O2 refill.  An O2 tank of ABO costs me $100.00 delivered to my shop.  If I drive to the supplier, it takes me an hour of my time, which is lost from the shop floor, another $100.00

With this cylinder I can’t fill 2 Mooney cylinders, so I have 3 of them on hand.  If you’re in a for profit business like many of us are trying to be, what would you charge for this service?

Clarence

[DonMuncy]

3 hours ago, Jeph357 said:

What brand/type of regulator are you using to refill portable tanks? Haven't really looked into it much but reading the thread felt like a pertainate question.

 

 

No regulator required. Just connect the two tanks together, open both valves and wait for the pressure to equalize.

[Yetti]

7 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Something to consider for those who think that their local FBO is ripping them off for their O2 refill.  An O2 tank of ABO costs me $100.00 delivered to my shop.  If I drive to the supplier, it takes me an hour of my time, which is lost from the shop floor, another $100.00

With this cylinder I can’t fill 2 Mooney cylinders, so I have 3 of them on hand.  If you’re in a for profit business like many of us are trying to be, what would you charge for this service?

Clarence

I think your supplier is ripping you off.  I had two of the medium bottles welding cylinders exchanged for 45 bucks and both of them were out of date.    Apparently dad had a big bottle so I am good for life at this point.  And it is only a 20 minute round trip at this point.     And you want to fill the bottles slowly.   Technically they should be placed in a large steel pipe.  Just in case. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Yetti

[bradp]

On 7/3/2020 at 1:08 PM, Marauder said:

Finally found a picture! Hey Danb when you coming over to fill up?




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

That’s the waterfall system like I used to fill D tanks on the ambulance.