Garmin GFC 500 Autopilot on M20J

[Shawn26]

Planing to install a GFC 500 autopilot on a M20J with dual G5 and removing my vacuum system. My bendix king KAP 150 is working excellent with no issue! I’ve electric trim and the KAP 150 does a great job in turbulence. I was told to install a yaw damper with GFC 500 as it can handle better in turbulence air! Any input on this greatly appreciate it. Thank you

 

 

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[Niko182]

Most people that try the yaw damper say its worthwhile. the ones that haven't tried it tend to say it doesn't make it worthwhile for the price. I took the former's advise and just went with it. In my opinion, its well worth it. The GFC500 handles turbulence very well, and with the yaw damper it makes it noticeably better. the fact that the yaw damper can be on without the autopilot being on is another nice addition.

[Shawn26]

Most people that try the yaw damper say its worthwhile. the ones that haven't tried it tend to say it doesn't make it worthwhile for the price. I took the former's advise and just went with it. In my opinion, its well worth it. The GFC500 handles turbulence very well, and with the yaw damper it makes it noticeably better. the fact that the yaw damper can be on without the autopilot being on is another nice addition.

That’s what I hear! You’re flying a J ? May I ask how much extra was the yaw damper ?


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[Niko182]

I'm flying an M20S, but you'll find that no matter what air frame it was installed on, everyone seems to love it. beechtalk has a ton of pireps on it too.

Here is the price of the entire GFC500 price layed out, because other people reading are probably curious about it
GFC500 AP control Panel: $2,800
GSA28 servo: 1400 x 4 = $5,600
Product Info Kit = $50
Basic Install Kit = $2,000
Pitch Trim Kit = $850
Yaw Damper Kit = $850
Labor for installation of GFC500 = $5,000
Labor for Yaw Damper = $800

Yaw Damper alone = 3,050
Total = $17,950

Definitely far from cheap, but you get what you pay for in the aviation world, and it is significantly better than the stec30 it replaced.
hope this helps

[HIghpockets]

I fly a J with two G5s and the GFC 500. I did not install the yaw damper. I may not know what I am missing but the new autopilot is amazing. I have no complaints concerning its ability to fly precision approaches in turbulence.

[Shawn26]

I'm flying an M20S, but you'll find that no matter what air frame it was installed on, everyone seems to love it. beechtalk has a ton of pireps on it too.

Here is the price of the entire GFC500 price layed out, because other people reading are probably curious about it
GFC500 AP control Panel: $2,800
GSA28 servo: 1400 x 4 = $5,600
Product Info Kit = $50
Basic Install Kit = $2,000
Pitch Trim Kit = $850
Yaw Damper Kit = $850
Labor for installation of GFC500 = $5,000
Labor for Yaw Damper = $800

Yaw Damper alone = 3,050
Total = $17,950

Definitely far from cheap, but you get what you pay for in the aviation world, and it is significantly better than the stec30 it replaced.
hope this helps

Thank you very much!


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[ArtVandelay]

I would think the yaw damper would be most noticeable by rear seat passengers, especially with sensitive stomachs.

Personally I just try to avoid turbulence. How much does it help for just light/moderate chop?

I think it be easy enough add at later time.

[kpaul]

4 hours ago, Shawn26 said:

 

Planing to install a GFC 500 autopilot on a M20J with dual G5 and removing my vacuum system. My bendix king KAP 150 is working excellent with no issue! I’ve electric trim and the KAP 150 does a great job in turbulence. I was told to install a yaw damper with GFC 500 as it can handle better in turbulence air! Any input on this greatly appreciate it. Thank you

 

 

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@bradp has a recent GFC 500/M20J install and is a big fan of the YD.

[bradp]

It’s a noticeable improvement by front seat passengers too. The arm between front and rear seat from center of axis isn’t too much.  
 

My costs were almost the same as Niko’s.  I also had the vacuum system removed and an RCA-2600 installed in lieu of the TC. Originally I was not going to do the YD, but messaging with @Bobs50 convinced me it was worth it.  Particularly in the models without rudder trim, the yaw servo effectively gives you an auto rudder trim function from 800AGL in the way up to 200AGL on the way down.  In the medium body (200HP) models the YD servo is strong enough to maintain right rudder pressure all the way up during climb  

 

In fact the avionics shop tried over and over to convince me not to do it- said it is only useful in the V tails for their Dutch roll characteristics.  The original plan was to pre-wire for that servo in case I’d want it in the future.  It was 3AMU to do it during the install and 5AMU to come back and do it later - so I decided to get it done.    
 

So, in summary, it is a (valuable) worthwhile addition and I’d highly recommend it for Mooney models without independent rudder trim. 
 

 

[Shawn26]

It’s a noticeable improvement by front seat passengers too. The arm between front and rear seat from center of axis isn’t too much.  
 
My costs were almost the same as Niko’s.  I also had the vacuum system removed and an RCA-2600 installed in lieu of the TC. Originally I was not going to do the YD, but messaging with @Bobs50 convinced me it was worth it.  Particularly in the models without rudder trim, the yaw servo effectively gives you an auto rudder trim function from 800AGL in the way up to 200AGL on the way down.  In the medium body (200HP) models the YD servo is strong enough to maintain right rudder pressure all the way up during climb  
 
In fact the avionics shop tried over and over to convince me not to do it- said it is only useful in the V tails for their Dutch roll characteristics.  The original plan was to pre-wire for that servo in case I’d want it in the future.  It was 3AMU to do it during the install and 5AMU to come back and do it later - so I decided to get it done.    
 
So, in summary, it is a (valuable) worthwhile addition and I’d highly recommend it for Mooney models without independent rudder trim. 
 
 

Thank you for your impute. Did you or anyone installed a TOGA switch with the GFC 500?


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[bradp]

Just now, Shawn26 said:

Thank you for your impute. Did you or anyone installed a TOGA switch with the GFC 500?


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It’s required as per the STC- mine is just above the throttle quadrant.  

[Bob - S50]

We have a dual G5 and GFC500 with yaw damper J.  In turbulence I can feel the rudders moving to reduce the tail wag.  I've also noticed we fly a couple knots faster because the damper keeps the airplane yaw axis trimmed.

We have the TOGA switch.  It's the same one that was there for the KFC200 we had.  We also used the KFC200 trim switch.

[tmo]

7 hours ago, Niko182 said:

Definitely far from cheap, but you get what you pay for in the aviation world

While I only agree with the first part of the quoted sentence, I'm pretty sure I'd pay the money for a YD - in for an inch in for a mile kind of thing.  Kind of like I got all the additional sensors for the EDM that still isn't installed...

[MIm20c]

One thing beyond the additional 3k install is the maintenance needed down the road. Originally, when we ordered the gfc500 system, the thought was it would save money down the road on servo repairs etc. Now I’m not so sure. There have been a few servo failures on certified planes already and the system is relatively new. In addition I feel the servos are slightly underpowered to the point where the controls need to be well lubed...at all times.  
 

Time will tell if there is any savings at all to the new equipment.

Edited May 23, 2020 by MIm20c

[tmo]

What is the price difference on the Garmin servos vs. the King ones?

[Shawn26]

One thing beyond the additional 3k install is the maintenance needed down the road. Originally, when we ordered the gfc500 system, the thought was it would save money down the road on servo repairs etc. Now I’m not so sure. There have been a few servo failures on certified planes already and the system is relatively new. In addition I feel the servos are slightly underpowered to the point where the controls need to be well lubed...at all times.  
 
Time will tell if there is any savings at all to the new equipment.

I’m sure the servos got to be a lot better than Benedix Kings. Garmin got a excellent customer support and the system has two years warranty!

Things can always go wrong but for redundancy I think GFC 500 is a lot better and more safer!


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[Aerodon]

9 hours ago, Niko182 said:

I'm flying an M20S, but you'll find that no matter what air frame it was installed on, everyone seems to love it. beechtalk has a ton of pireps on it too.

Here is the price of the entire GFC500 price layed out, because other people reading are probably curious about it
GFC500 AP control Panel: $2,800
GSA28 servo: 1400 x 4 = $5,600
Product Info Kit = $50
Basic Install Kit = $2,000
Pitch Trim Kit = $850
Yaw Damper Kit = $850
Labor for installation of GFC500 = $5,000
Labor for Yaw Damper = $800

Yaw Damper alone = 3,050
Total = $17,950

Definitely far from cheap, but you get what you pay for in the aviation world, and it is significantly better than the stec30 it replaced.
hope this helps

I would say that labor is too little.  At $100/hr, that's 50 hours.  I think might just cover installing the 4 servos, and that a realistic number is between 100-150 hours.    Some of the variables are:

1) amount of old stuff to be removed

2) relocating radios to fit

3) modifying the panel to install the G5's

A local shop is doing a 4 servo in an M20K, I'll report back later on the breakdown of install hours.

 

Aerodon

[Niko182]

Just now, Aerodon said:

I would say that labor is too little.  At $100/hr, that's 50 hours.  I think might just cover installing the 4 servos, and that a realistic number is between 100-150 hours.    Some of the variables are:

1) amount of old stuff to be removed

2) relocating radios to fit

3) modifying the panel to install the G5's

A local shop is doing a 4 servo in an M20K, I'll report back later on the breakdown of install hours.

 

Aerodon

That does not include the time for installing the g3x, and the g5

[Bob - S50]

1 hour ago, tmo said:

What is the price difference on the Garmin servos vs. the King ones?

When our KFC pitch servo died, we sent it and the servo mount to Autopilots Central.  They wanted $3500 to fix it.  A brand spanking new servo for the GFC is $1750 for the certified version.

[Shawn26]

I fly a J with two G5s and the GFC 500. I did not install the yaw damper. I may not know what I am missing but the new autopilot is amazing. I have no complaints concerning its ability to fly precision approaches in turbulence.

Wondering if the G5 ADI or even GFC 500 provides Altitude alerts. Referring to altitude callouts like "500 feet" etc. or when you reach minimum on a autopilot coupled approach?


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[Shawn26]

Wondering if the G5 ADI or even GFC 500 provides Altitude alerts. Referring to altitude callouts like "500 feet" etc. or when you reach minimum on a autopilot coupled approach?


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[FlySafe]

Just now, Shawn26 said:

Wondering if the G5 ADI or even GFC 500 provides Altitude alerts. Referring to altitude callouts like "500 feet" etc. or when you reach minimum on a autopilot coupled approach?


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The G5 AI does not provide audio alerts, ony flahing yellow on the slected altitude at 1,000 and 200, don't know about the gfc 500. 

[carusoam]

Often altitude call outs are related to the GPS source... programmed via the specific approach...

Less often, the display...

Back in the day... the HSI would display the yellow radar altimeter light... no flight plans involved...Always 200’ agl... based on the sensor finding the ground...

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

[Bob - S50]

Ours gives a tone at 1000 to go, 200 to go, and if you deviate from the bug by 200.

[jonhop]

@Shawn26, What are you doing with the KAP-150 once removed? I might be interested in some of the components.