I'm looking at a 1998 M20R vs M20R OVATION3

[Davidv]

43 minutes ago, kmyfm20s said:

I’m using O2 more and more. I have a portable tank and it is great. I sure the built in O2 keeps the cabin free of cords but I like that I can get it filled so easy and cheap which makes me use it more often. 

Not to restart the 02 discussion, but I’m the same way.  Even when I’m at lower altitudes I’ll use it feel a lot better when I land.  May be placebo but doesn’t matter to me...

[ArtVandelay]

I’m using O2 more and more. I have a portable tank and it is great. I sure the built in O2 keeps the cabin free of cords but I like that I can get it filled so easy and cheap which makes me use it more often. 

Only down side is getting to it, I’d like to put it in the luggage area, but can’t reach it, so it stays in the back seat. You can hang it off the back of the front, but it still gets in the way.


Tom

[CoinDealer]

53 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

Only down side is getting to it, I’d like to put it in the luggage area, but can’t reach it, so it stays in the back seat. You can hang it off the back of the front, but it still gets in the way.


Tom

I just looked on Sporty's. It all looks cumbersome. It's easier to stay below FL120 or simply stay home on that day. I'm retired, I don't have a need to be some place at any specific time. I divorced both my ex wives, and I'm not responsible for the grand kids so when i get there I'll get there :))

[ArtVandelay]

I just looked on Sporty's. It all looks cumbersome. It's easier to stay below FL120 or simply stay home on that day. I'm retired, I don't have a need to be some place at any specific time. I divorced both my ex wives, and I'm not responsible for the grand kids so when i get there I'll get there )

If you’re going west of Denver, it’s almost a requirement. Staying low limits your options.


Tom

[CoinDealer]

I live in NYC. If I ever fly west of NY the furthest i'll ever go is Osh Kosh. I'm never going to learn mountain flying at 70 years of age. 

[ilovecornfields]

4 minutes ago, CoinDealer said:

I just looked on Sporty's. It all looks cumbersome. It's easier to stay below FL120 or simply stay home on that day. I'm retired, I don't have a need to be some place at any specific time. I divorced both my ex wives, and I'm not responsible for the grand kids so when i get there I'll get there :))

Why don’t you come out here to visit and I’ll take you up to 12,000 ft for a while and we can see what your oxygen level is? If you’re really not planning on going above 12k, and you’re not in a hurry don’t buy an Ovation. A Piper Archer will let you putter around leisurely and will be a lot cheaper to insure.

I met someone who had a 252 Encore with TKS and no instrument rating. Didn’t make a lot of sense to me either, but it’s not my money.

[MIm20c]

Have to say many older (and younger) passengers feel better after long flights at 8-10k feet on O2, especially at night. 

[CoinDealer]

2 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

Why don’t you come out here to visit and I’ll take you up to 12,000 ft for a while and we can see what your oxygen level is? If you’re really not planning on going above 12k, and you’re not in a hurry don’t buy an Ovation. A Piper Archer will let you putter around leisurely and will be a lot cheaper to insure.

I met someone who had a 252 Encore with TKS and no instrument rating. Didn’t make a lot of sense to me either, but it’s not my money.

Last time in Ca, I visited my first wife in Brea. Flew a Matrix out of KSNA over Catalina but no need to come again any time soon. Having never smoked I went flying with a friend in his Saratoga from ISP to MQI. couple years ago. I had my witt's about me at FL141 for about 45 minutes. At FL135 after 2 hours I might as well had been sitting in my car. The altitude had no affect on my ability to fly, navigate, talk , whistle and chew gum :). I'll be 70 in March

[CoinDealer]

Just now, CoinDealer said:

Last time in Ca, I visited my first wife in Brea. Flew a Matrix out of KSNA over Catalina but no need to come again any time soon. Having never smoked I went flying with a friend in his Saratoga from ISP to MQI. couple years ago. I had my witt's about me at FL141 for about 45 minutes. At FL135 after 2 hours I might as well had been sitting in my car. The altitude had no affect on my ability to fly, navigate, talk , whistle and chew gum :). I'll be 70 in March

 

Just now, CoinDealer said:

Last time in Ca, I visited my first wife in Brea. Flew a Matrix out of KSNA over Catalina but no need to come again any time soon. Having never smoked I went flying with a friend in his Saratoga from ISP to MQI. couple years ago. I had my witt's about me at FL141 for about 45 minutes. At FL135 after 2 hours I might as well had been sitting in my car. The altitude had no affect on my ability to fly, navigate, talk , whistle and chew gum :). I'll be 70 in March

At night it's a big difference. The O2 levels always drop but not during the day. At night I only do hamburger runs and I'm about to do in 10 minutes out of FRG

[CoinDealer]

1 hour ago, CoinDealer said:

Last time in Ca, I visited my first wife in Brea. Flew a Matrix out of KSNA over Catalina but no need to come again any time soon. Having never smoked I went flying with a friend in his Saratoga from ISP to MQI. couple years ago. I had my witt's about me at FL141 for about 45 minutes. At FL135 after 2 hours I might as well had been sitting in my car. The altitude had no affect on my ability to fly, navigate, talk , whistle and chew gum :). I'll be 70 in March

Aside from one other person in this forum so far , everyone has said that 10k is a sweet spot in the plane. As for the Archer. I've been flying them for more than 25 years. As a renter flying strictly locally they have served me well. On occasion using a Dakota gave me an extra 15 knots. They are great planes and always will be. I'm ready for more speed though. Saratoga is nice as is the Mooney. The O is cheaper on insurance and maintenance and upkeep. The Saratoga has more room but has it's trade offs too. Remember this as I tell people all the time. I will get my IFR but still fly only in nice weather. Pilots make mistakes when they feel they have to be some place when actually a few hours or a day would not have mattered. Many have died thinking they were doing the right thing when they weren't. I won't fly tired. I won't fly in bad weather and I will get TKS  because I believe in the old adage, what if?  When you develop icing it can already be too late. 

[Niko182]

I dont understand why you would get TKS if you only plan to fly in VFR. If you wouldnt fly in bad weather, the TKS will never get used. You can onky get icing with moisture, that you wouldnt ever fly in.

[kmyfm20s]

1 hour ago, CoinDealer said:

The altitude had no affect on my ability to fly, navigate, talk , whistle and chew gum :). I'll be 70 in March

Lol, I’m Not sure what altitude you are at now but your starting to quote and reply to yourself:)

[CoinDealer]

I'll try and make this as easy to understand as possible. I fly in the NE. I fly in winter months and have always tried to be safe. On occasion there can be ice that you do not see. I plan on getting my IFR and flying much more. The TKS will give me the opportunity to stay safe if I decide to fly back to my NY home in the winter plus from what I've learned over the years you can never be to safe. I think TKS is more important that AC. Hence if I only need it one time in the years I will enjoy flying it, it'll keep me alive to fly another day. That's why

[CoinDealer]

1 hour ago, kmyfm20s said:

Lol, I’m Not sure what altitude you are at now but your starting to quote and reply to yourself:)

I do hope you enjoy flying over your mountains. Fly safe

[carusoam]

Coin,

Have you seen any Os close to what you are looking for lately?

Best regards,

-a-

[CoinDealer]

I'm not looking for any yet. I'm not going to start really looking till March. Now it's window shopping to learn the ins and outs of the plane and different thoughts of owners

[kmyfm20s]

2 hours ago, CoinDealer said:

I do hope you enjoy flying over your mountains. Fly safe

I do and I think you are on the right track with your choice. You can fly an Ovation anyway you want. With or without O2, IFR or day/night just fine. Very versatile model with lots of speed and cabin room!

[carusoam]

Get on it before logic strikes!  

I have never taken my O above 12.5k’...

But with all of the encouragement, I can see how having a portable bottle and a O2 meter for your fingertip is an easy way to improve the AC’s capabilities...

The first time you cruise at 200kts Ground Speed... continuously, effortlessly, because you have a decent tail wind...   you want to go up a few more k’ to enjoy the stronger winds aloft... the O will keep going for you...

Two things that will keep you from being tired after time aloft.... a decent AP, and O2...

As a young guy (I was one once) a two hour flight without an AP was more tiring than I expected it to be...

It was similar to driving for 6 hours on I-95...

With the AP, and IR... my 1:15 flight was less tiring than driving to work....  

Enjoy the hunt...

Best regards,

-a-

[ilovecornfields]

6 hours ago, CoinDealer said:

 

At night it's a big difference. The O2 levels always drop but not during the day. At night I only do hamburger runs and I'm about to do in 10 minutes out of FRG

I heard the air is thinner at night, that’s why your oxygen levels drop at night but not during the day. I can think of no other rational explanation for your unique physiology.

[ArtVandelay]

I heard the air is thinner at night...

Cooler air temperatures, I would expect the opposite.


Tom

[kmyfm20s]

5 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

I heard the air is thinner at night, that’s why your oxygen levels drop at night but not during the day. I can think of no other rational explanation for your unique physiology.

A couple of reasons you want to use oxygen at night vs day but oxygen is the same day or night.

Your eye have photoreceptors, rods and cones. For night vision the low light receptors in your eyes, rods, need oxygen to maintain light sensitivity. During the daytime they don’t need it because of the bright light and your eye primarily use the cones.

Since we like to sleep at night and your eyes will fatigue easier making you feel more tired, supplemental O2 will help counteract both those effects.

Edited September 22, 2019 by kmyfm20s

[CoinDealer]

7 hours ago, kmyfm20s said:

I do and I think you are on the right track with your choice. You can fly an Ovation anyway you want. With or without O2, IFR or day/night just fine. Very versatile model with lots of speed and cabin room!

The first photo is going over the Brooklyn bridge in 5 P.M. rush hour traffic :). The next one was taken at 1500' splitting the East river and Hudson right down the middle of the city. Ever since Trump became president this is no longer allowed because of the TFR around Trump Tower. Pictures of mountains are nice but in the last 30 years of flying, I've never had any friends ask me to fly them up state to look at the mountains. NYC is where the world gets together and what friends from around the world want to see. For me its a boring ride having done it a hundred times but as long as friends ask me to I will take them. 

[CoinDealer]

7 hours ago, carusoam said:

Get on it before logic strikes!  

I have never taken my O above 12.5k’...

But with all of the encouragement, I can see how having a portable bottle and a O2 meter for your fingertip is an easy way to improve the AC’s capabilities...

The first time you cruise at 200kts Ground Speed... continuously, effortlessly, because you have a decent tail wind...   you want to go up a few more k’ to enjoy the stronger winds aloft... the O will keep going for you...

Two things that will keep you from being tired after time aloft.... a decent AP, and O2...

As a young guy (I was one once) a two hour flight without an AP was more tiring than I expected it to be...

It was similar to driving for 6 hours on I-95...

With the AP, and IR... my 1:15 flight was less tiring than driving to work....  

Enjoy the hunt...

Best regards,

-a-

That is so true I'm turning 70 in March. Sept 13 there was an exposition taking place at CDW by Beechcraft, Pilatus , Cirrus, Piper and others. I was flying this 78 Archer. I took off from FRG at 4 pm. Flew through bravo to 3N6 and picked up my friend. Foot note on my friend. In 1969 he was one of the programmers that wrote the computer code to make possible the Apollo 13 landing on the moon at Grumman. We stayed at the show for about 90 minutes. On the way there just before we were to take off my tablet croaked. Being an old time pilot I still carry paper charts which helped me with the airspace in and around KEWR. Anyone flying in the NYC area knows we have a lot of airports. After the show I flew us a short flight to N07 for dinner. I then flew us back to 3N6. Old Bridge is surrounded by trees on 3 sides and has a race track just to the west of it 1/8 mile. Getting in and out of that airport ( I've done it a 100 times is not easy especially at night. I then flew back to Farmingdale at 10 PM in pitch blackness. By the time I got to put the plane to sleep and drove the 30 miles home, I was shot. The next day on Saturday, I could not move the entire day and just rested. 

I'm looking forward to the days when I have my own plane equipped exactly the way all the members of this forum will have suggested for the plane to have or not have. Another 50 knots of speed, a great AP, maybe even supplemental O2 for night time flying. The second panel is from AOPA sweepstakes plane 208GG. From 2011 to 2014 Nassau Flyers at FRG was renting that plane out for the woman who won the plane. She was an ATC but not a pilot. Such a shame. I used to love flying that plane with an S-tec 55. She eventually sold the plane for $94,000 through NFI. I wish I had known it was up for sale, I would have bought it. All it needed was a new engine and the AP repaired to work with the nav and not just heading bug.

Oh well, for the time being I'm just in research mode but I'm taking in what everyone says.

Dan

[CoinDealer]

7 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

I heard the air is thinner at night, that’s why your oxygen levels drop at night but not during the day. I can think of no other rational explanation for your unique physiology.

That is true.

[CoinDealer]

2 hours ago, kmyfm20s said:

A couple of reasons you want to use oxygen at night vs day but oxygen is the same day or night.

Your eye have photoreceptors, rods and cones. For night vision the low light receptors in your eyes, rods, need oxygen to maintain light sensitivity. During the daytime they don’t need it because of the bright light and your eye primarily use the cones.

Since we like to sleep at night and your eyes will fatigue easier making you feel more tired, supplemental O2 will help counteract both those effects.

Interesting to know this. Thank you.

D