CoinDealer

I'm looking at a 1998 M20R vs M20R OVATION3

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8 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

I also have a FIKI 2000 Ovation 2 with the 310 HP STC and absolutely love it. Big decision you have to make is turbo or NA. If you want/need a turbo look at the Bravos and 252/Encores. If you go NA the Ovation is hard to beat.

I'm going to be flying an O with FIKI in the near future with a local pilot. Lives 15 miles away. I'll learn a lot flying in his plane that I don't know. As of now I have all of 1.5 hours in Mooneys unless I include in 1965 flying in a statesman :))

Dan

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8 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

I also have a FIKI 2000 Ovation 2 with the 310 HP STC and absolutely love it. Big decision you have to make is turbo or NA. If you want/need a turbo look at the Bravos and 252/Encores. If you go NA the Ovation is hard to beat.

Thanks for the info.

Dan

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Good to know but the shortest RW I use is BID or 3N6 where my uncle lives. As for my second Mooney?  I'll be moving up from an Archer so anything is better. Don't need or want monster engine. Being an ex A&P monster engines come with their own problems, fuel consumption, oil burn and more. I've been climbing at 500 fpm so a plane that doubles that is more than sufficient.  

In my experience and please someone else chime in on this. IMHO monster engines if you can call a TCM 550 a monster doesn't neccesarily have more problems than a smaller engine. The 550 in an ovation even the 310 hp ones are not setup to provide their full potential. The same engine set up differently in other aircraft have higher HP output than in the Mooney. The de-rating of this engine makes for less maintenance, good longevity and reliability. Look at the TBO times for the engine at different HP ratings and how it goes down as rated HP is increased. So my point is, just because it is a larger displacement does not mean it is more maintenance or cost (other than fuel burn). A Non turbo engine with larger displacement is going to be less maintenance than a smaller engine with a turbo. So dont let the idea of bigger engine/more cost scare you off. And on the fuel issue an ovation can be fast, push the knobs in and it burns more fuel and goes fast pull them out and it goes Cessna 172 speeds and burns 172 fuel rates. Well almost, but the you have so many options with the Ovation. It is a VERY simple engine to operate. ROP LOP it doesn't care get high enough so that the MP limits engine output to less than 65% and TCM says you can't hurt the engine with the mixture control. How simple can it be. I just can't emphasize enough as to how perfect the Ovation is. The turbocharged planes are great to but there are more moving parts and you have more to look after as far as the engine goes. A 252 may be a little more efficient than the Ovation, do I like them of course I do but the TCM TSIO 360 is a more complex engine and requires more attention and heat management than the big derated 550.  And when it is time for an overhaul compare the prices on the two. So dont be afraid of the monster engine, it is also a simple engine.

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I appreciate the input. I'm getting flooded with info. 95% for non turbo vs turbo. Most likely will end up NA vs T but I'm still 9 months away from pulling the plug. I will be turning 70 in March and by then will know what I'm doing. Thank you for your info. I'm also going to be talking to Bob in Austin, Tx . He owns Bobslycomingoverhaul.com. His prices can't be beat on OH and unlike many shops that hire and train their mechanics, all of his are fully licensed A&P only. 

Dan

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19 hours ago, CoinDealer said:

75-80% of the time I fly alone hence I really don't worry much about the load. When I am flying with a full load of friends, it's never more than 45 minutes for the hamburger run. As for NDH, I only look for them where possible. The reason I want FIKI is I've spent 40+ years of flying always thinking what if. I always carry portables, spare radios, flares, several types of flash lights and recently even an Epirb. I don't want to become an NTSB report. I'm turning 70 in March. Better safe than sorry.

Have you looked into the insurance cost issue for the step up. It shouldn't be a problem but I've seen some, let's say, interesting underwriting decisions.

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1 minute ago, midlifeflyer said:

Have you looked into the insurance cost issue for the step up. It shouldn't be a problem but I've seen some, let's say, interesting underwriting decisions.

Yes but I've been a renter for the last 1/4 century. I'll now be an owner and I was told as soon as I have 50 hours in the plane, the insurance will drop 15%. 

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8 hours ago, Niko182 said:

Also if you're flying at 10 to 11k, the ovation is the way to go. that is really where it loves to be. Not to dis the bravo in anyway, but you can have 180 knots on 13 gallons in an ovation, or 180 knots on 19 gallons in a bravo.

My FIKI Bravo flies a TAS of 180 kts @13.8 GPH at FL190, 50 degrees LOP.  I'm still torn though on the whole LOP debate.  What I have learned so far is that LOP is safe and efficient IF the engine is performing well and tuned properly.  The minute something changes (an exhaust gasket leak, etc) that causes a cylinder to become more lean or rich, thus throwing off the GAMI spread, it's time to go back to ROP operations and fix the problem at hand.  

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CD, 

we have an insurance guy around here... Look for Parker...

We also have threads that cover the main issues...

The first year usually costs about 1AMU more than every year afterwards...

It helps to be Transition trained, and have an IR, and MAPA Training can be helpful too...

If I get a third Mooney... the Acclaim would be on my short list... or M20E if I am flying into overtime....  :)

Best regards,

-a- 

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2 hours ago, carusoam said:

CD, 

we have an insurance guy around here... Look for Parker...

We also have threads that cover the main issues...

The first year usually costs about 1AMU more than every year afterwards...

It helps to be Transition trained, and have an IR, and MAPA Training can be helpful too...

If I get a third Mooney... the Acclaim would be on my short list... or M20E if I am flying into overtime....  :)

Best regards,

-a- 

What is MAPA training?

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Just now, CoinDealer said:

What is MAPA training?

It's a pilot proficiency course sponsored by the Mooney Aircraft Pilots Association. Multi day ground and flight instruction by instructors well-versed in Mooneys and their "gotchas."

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When I'm up to that point, I will be doing a lot of training in the plane. I've been renting planes for a 1/4 century. My motto has always been if it's not perfect flying weather I'm staying on the ground because I've been doing it for fun. 1/4 century of VFR has kept me safe and sound. 40% of my flying is done at night.  Never needed an IFR nor wanted one but with my own plane, I'll be taking courses and furthering my education although if flying long distances I will still look for VFR weather.  I know many pilots that are IFR rated but will not fly at night. I will get the rating and the plane will be over maintained. Nothing will be left to chance. I've a friend out of Dallas who's been flying his A36  1976 that he bought new VFR his entire life. He and I feel the same about flying.

Dan

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18 minutes ago, CoinDealer said:

When I'm up to that point, I will be doing a lot of training in the plane. I've been renting planes for a 1/4 century. My motto has always been if it's not perfect flying weather I'm staying on the ground because I've been doing it for fun. 1/4 century of VFR has kept me safe and sound. 40% of my flying is done at night.  Never needed an IFR nor wanted one but with my own plane, I'll be taking courses and furthering my education although if flying long distances I will still look for VFR weather.  I know many pilots that are IFR rated but will not fly at night. I will get the rating and the plane will be over maintained. Nothing will be left to chance. I've a friend out of Dallas who's been flying his A36  1976 that he bought new VFR his entire life. He and I feel the same about flying.

Dan

IFR rating/proficiency will triple the usefulness of your plane during certain times of the year.   

I’m ok to fly hard IFR, but I try to avoid single engine over widespread LIFR  and I don’t fly single engine at night over terrain like around these parts.  

Edited by Browncbr1

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Flying the O IFR is a blast..!

Not flying at night is pretty much an engine out challenge... finding a field in the dark can be pretty challenging...

Pick your personal limitations to suit... nobody demands that you fly when the ceilings are low...

Learning to fly IFR is a fair amount of work...

the result... you get to know your plane pretty well... and the ATC system moderately well...

and you probably won’t be challenged by VFR flight into IMC... a normal VFR pilot challenge that doesn’t end very well for too many VFR only pilots...

Having a fast XC machine opens you up to crossing weather systems more often...

Part of your transition training can include the basics of getting down if you need to... if you only learn one type of approach... an ILS would be a good one...  :)

Best regards,

-a-

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52 minutes ago, Browncbr1 said:

IFR rating/proficiency will triple the usefulness of your plane during certain times of the year.   

I’m ok to fly hard IFR, but I try to avoid single engine over widespread LIFR  and I don’t fly single engine at night over terrain like around these parts.  

Renting planes for as long as I have have been all older planes with steam gauges. Hamburger runs were never difficult flights. Always short to and from FRG area. It would never occur to me to fly at night in unfamiliar areas. I'm a very careful pilot. The IFR rating will be first on my list once i know the plane I'm owning. Flights of hundreds of miles will always be filed flights. In the mean time Friday will be FRG - 3N6 -CDW-N07. Back and then home to FRG. Short fun flight in an Archer with a friend. :) 

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Agreed. Any long distance flights will always be done during the day. When you are retired there is no need to be some place at a specific time. But I'm looking to open up many places to come visit. 

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Being retired is when MSers grab the grand children or a nephew, and head across the country... Many awesome national parks to be seen from above...

For some interesting Mooney flights around the Mooney world... see Bonal’s thread... ‘today’s flight’. It is a great collection of pics... from everybody...

Getting to the Mooney Summit is one of my favorite flights... 100+ MSers and family in attendance...

No need to rush... finding a great machine often, can take a year to complete...

Best regards,

-a-

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When I buy which ever plane I want, it will have all the goodies already built into it. I'm not going to spend a year looking for a derelict to reinvent the plane. I'm tired and too old. I'm turning 70 in March. I don't need the wow factor on the outside of the plane. Just a very capable plane with good avionics will do. I've spent a life time looking at panels like the one on the left. 2 years ago I bought for $295 a Cheetah flight pad. I then purchased a Merlin A-DSB receiver which is configured to also give me AHRS as you can see in the photo. I wanted more safety for me. I fly from FRG which is within a 35 nm from JFK, LGA, KEWR,  HPN, FOK, BDR. I've been flying with in this airspace for over 1/4 century. If you can make it here, you can make it anywhere (NYC)  :)  As for the interiors of the Mooney I choose, I've flown a lot of rats in my life time so all of the interiors will be much better.

Dan

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15 hours ago, carusoam said:

Flying the O IFR is a blast..!

Not flying at night is pretty much an engine out challenge... finding a field in the dark can be pretty challenging...

Pick your personal limitations to suit... nobody demands that you fly when the ceilings are low...

Learning to fly IFR is a fair amount of work...

the result... you get to know your plane pretty well... and the ATC system moderately well...

and you probably won’t be challenged by VFR flight into IMC... a normal VFR pilot challenge that doesn’t end very well for too many VFR only pilots...

Having a fast XC machine opens you up to crossing weather systems more often...

Part of your transition training can include the basics of getting down if you need to... if you only learn one type of approach... an ILS would be a good one...  :)

Best regards,

-a-

Generally when i fly, the ceilings are unlimited. Like I've said for years to friends, I fly for the shear enjoyment of it, not because I have to or I need to make an appointment. At 42 in 1992, I closed my 2 stores in NYC and have been playing mostly ever since. I work on occasion and play the rest of the time. All my night flights are with in a 100 mile radius of Farmingdale. I know all the roads and possible landing in an emergency spots having flown over them for 25 years. There is zero chance I'll fly at night over any areas I don't know very well. As recently as yesterday a friend of mine asked about JFK jr flight 20 yrs ago. I used to know one of the investigators for the NTSB. The day after he died, I was telling friends what I thought happened and why. Once a Kennedy, always one. For him to get his license, buy a C182, fly it a very short time and jump into a Saratoga that was wonderfully equipped. Fly in fog on a night that Continental cancelled all flight to MVY, his instructor told him not to, he had almost no night time experience. We all know the outcome. Sad but true.

Dan

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VFR vs IFR  I flew slower planes for quite a few years before I owned my first Mooney. It was a lil C model 180 hp and I learned something. When you have a Mooney, any model of Mooney besides the mite, which i have zero experience with, any Mooney will open a door... a door of travelling opportunities which will necessitate an instrument rating. A Mooney will cover so much terra firma so quickly you will "want" to travel, you will be able to afford to travel but to do this you REALLY need the instrument rating. Owning a Mooney without an ifr rating is like owning a computer and having no internet connection. Can't emphasize how much an ifr rating will change you as a pilot and increase the usefulness of a Mooney. 

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51 minutes ago, triple8s said:

VFR vs IFR  I flew slower planes for quite a few years before I owned my first Mooney. It was a lil C model 180 hp and I learned something. When you have a Mooney, any model of Mooney besides the mite, which i have zero experience with, any Mooney will open a door... a door of travelling opportunities which will necessitate an instrument rating. A Mooney will cover so much terra firma so quickly you will "want" to travel, you will be able to afford to travel but to do this you REALLY need the instrument rating. Owning a Mooney without an ifr rating is like owning a computer and having no internet connection. Can't emphasize how much an ifr rating will change you as a pilot and increase the usefulness of a Mooney. 

Like I tell everyone. I've been waiting till I was ready to purchase a plane. Was looking at a Matrix last year in Calif. Textron is putting on a small show tomorrow starting at 3 pm at CDW. I'm flying in with my uncle just to look and then shoot over to N07 5 miles away for dinner. Since the day I started flying, I said until I own my own plane with the right equipment, I'll stay VFR. I have friends that have it but don't use it 90% of the time they fly. I would be filing every time for safety. I'm 100% sure it will make me a better pilot but flying planes with panels like this one over the last 25 yrs.

Dan

IMG_20161007_194758047.jpg

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Dan,

Come out to 39N to see a Mooney that is for sale...

Not quite a Long Body, But somewhat modified Mid Body...  262

https://princetonairport.com/1985-mooney-m20k-262-for-sale-at-princeton-airport/

Let me know if you are interested...

There was a rumor that a Long Body was coming up for sale here too, but I haven’t seen it yet.

Best regards,

-a-

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I just spoke to Ken thinking I was calling you. I'm at least minimum 9 months to a year till i purchase a plane. I'm an old A&P.  When i buy the plane it's not going to be older than 15 years. I'm not a fan of old planes. I've been flying them too long and just want something newer. I will be at Elite at CDW tomorrow. Textron has a display from 3-9 and Saturday too. I'm picking up a friend at 3N6 and we are heading over there  about 4:30. Then to N07 for dinner. I'll then drop him at home and fly back to FRG

Dan

 

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10 hours ago, triple8s said:

VFR vs IFR  I flew slower planes for quite a few years before I owned my first Mooney. It was a lil C model 180 hp and I learned something. When you have a Mooney, any model of Mooney besides the mite, which i have zero experience with, any Mooney will open a door... a door of travelling opportunities which will necessitate an instrument rating. A Mooney will cover so much terra firma so quickly you will "want" to travel, you will be able to afford to travel but to do this you REALLY need the instrument rating. Owning a Mooney without an ifr rating is like owning a computer and having no internet connection. Can't emphasize how much an ifr rating will change you as a pilot and increase the usefulness of a Mooney. 

I respectfully disagree with this sentiment. I fly a C and have no intention of getting my IFR. In fact I would make the point that flying VFR in a faster airplane is safer than in a slow airplane in that the weather forecasts have less time to vary than they would if you are traveling much more slowly.  And even though the majority of our trips are less than 200 miles it's nice to be able to do them in just over an hour as opposed to more than two. I suppose if we lived east of the Rocky Mountains where weather is more un stable it would make more sense to hold the rating. 

To the OP I say happy hunting 

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56 minutes ago, bonal said:

I respectfully disagree with this sentiment. I fly a C and have no intention of getting my IFR. In fact I would make the point that flying VFR in a faster airplane is safer than in a slow airplane in that the weather forecasts have less time to vary than they would if you are traveling much more slowly.  And even though the majority of our trips are less than 200 miles it's nice to be able to do them in just over an hour as opposed to more than two. I suppose if we lived east of the Rocky Mountains where weather is more un stable it would make more sense to hold the rating. 

To the OP I say happy hunting 

Speaking about VFR. I learned years ago just taking off from FRG heading towards 3N6 if I flew through Bravo the trip often took close to an hour. I decided 10 years ago to try flying through the outer shore line of JFK at or below 500'. I now call JFK on 119.1 for advisories. Now the flight never takes more than 40 minutes in either direction. When you're a renter as I have been , it's been a savior of muu laa all the time. Even if and when I get an IFR my trips will still take place in perfect flying weather or I'll stay home. In almost 30 yrs, I've only gotten into a sticky situation twice. The IFR will save 10-15% on insurance and allow better routing through the DC area when filed vs VFR. You mention that you fly the C. You must have about as much rear seat leg room as a Piper 235. Room for 2 packages with no feet. 

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@CoinDealer, there's plenty of back seat legroom in a C, after I slide the seat forward to the middle position to fly.

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