Oshkosh observation

[Davidv]

4 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

No one asked for a sales strategy here, the users are taking it on themselves to voice what they think, some are very constructive suggestions, others are rants. My purpose was to give a venue for you to do just that, and maybe Mooney will review the suggestions and rants and they will take into consideration what the existing fleet feels about how they do things. It wasnt to "hire us for free" etc... It is your chance to be heard I hope.

 

Mike, thanks again for starting this, I really they take a look as well.  I’ve said this before but even their website is anemic.  Using the tag line “a new Mooney is probably already on your radar” is pretty weak.  Imagine going to BMW’s website and seeing in large letters on the homepage “You probably already want to buy a BMW”.  I think you would be navigating pretty quickly to the Mercedes site at that point.  They highlight 9 features of the acclaim with one of them being “Longest Flat Plate Drag Area”.  I can hear it now: “I know the cirrus has a parachute honey, but this one’s got the longest flat plate drag area!!”.

How about trying to sell the plane as also a business tool with more practical stories from owners or examples of point to point flights that could be made more efficient than commercial?  The plane isn’t exactly a family traveler, but to get me and one more person from point A to point B in a hurry there is almost no faster and economical choice.  

The ideas on how to present this information better are boundless (and yes, I know it’s easy to play fantasy football (business) than be the actual coach), but I hope they take some of the info on this thread seriously.

[mike_elliott]

3 minutes ago, Yetti said:

Here's an idea.   How about selling a blank panel kit for panel upgrades. or partner with a Electronic panel manufacture to sell in a drop in kit.

I know they are considering something very similar. My previous post took it a step farther to renew the entire plane in phases with  standardized kits and factory/MSC installations. Last year, Jeff Magnus and Lance Phillips announced  at OSH they were working with Dynon on this.

[Yetti]

31 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

I know they are considering something very similar. My previous post took it a step farther to renew the entire plane in phases with  standardized kits and factory/MSC installations. Last year, Jeff Magnus and Lance Phillips announced  at OSH they were working with Dynon on this.

Let me go see if they have a roadmap and if that is on it. Nope 3 main links on their page about selling new aircraft. I am planning to beat them to market on this one.   Just got a roof to pay off.

And as mentioned prior providing some options forward for the G1000 owners.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Yetti

[mike_elliott]

At one time, They offered the G1000 Stec owners upgrades to the GFC700, and they offered G1000 WAAS upgrades. Garmin stopped making the WAAS upgrades and the GFC700 takers were very very few. That would be fantastic if you have a new panel kit for legacy planes for those to get. Currently, there are a couple of people that will custom make them as will most avionics shops. Let me know when you are "in business" and Ill certainly let people I know interested know about your website to get it from. A, which I run across daily. Do you have  time frame? Will it be via STC or 337 field approval?

[Yetti]

My understanding is the G1000 is part of the Plane in the TDC so they are kind of stuck until the factory does something.

Since the Dynon AML for the Mooney is out everyone can do their own for a low low price of $2000 for the STC from Dynon.   Not sure why Mooney did not finish the partnership with Dynon.

They could still partner with Dynon for the A/P servo mounts.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Yetti

[mike_elliott]

4 minutes ago, Yetti said:

My understanding is the G1000 is part of the Plane in the TDC so they are kind of stuck until the factory does something

They did have something at one point, and offered it to the G1000 STEC owners. Some took them up on the GFC700 and WAAS upgrades, some did not. Garmin has discontinued the WAAS upgrade (not Mooney) and I am not sure if you can still get the GFC700 upgrade. 

Don Maxwell is about to completely remove a G1000 non waas STEC 55 system out of an Ovation I believe and put in a G3/G500 much like a lot are doing with non G1000 systems. Trek says it isnt legal to do as the STC specifically prohibits installing a G3 in a G1000 plane, Don Maxwell says "hold my beer, watch this" . We shall see.

One of these days, it would be nice to see the G1000 guys offered the NXI as an upgrade. Dont look for this to be cheap. The OEM cost of what goes into an Ultra from Garmin I am sure is over 100K from Garmin. I am sure the Garmin bank account would need to be fed substantial amounts for this as well as Mooney being a for profit company, would need to make a profit. I know they get pressure regularly to get this done from a handful of owners who did not elect to get the WAAS and GFC700 upgrades when they were offered.

[Yetti]

Let's recall from this conversation that people like mooneys because they are efficient.   I would think that people who hold that view are also efficient with money.    Or stated another way, the only thing cheap about the Mooney is the Pilot.

Also why I refuse to do Garmin.   Hoping that Avadyne comes out with a mid level GPS/com like Garmin did.

[Mufflerbearing]

It was said that some existing Mooney owners are not looking for a new plane or not part of the new program.  Well, that is not totally correct.  There is only one way that any one of us buys a used plane.  Someone first bought it new and then sold it used.  New buyers are so very important and vital to the used market.  To each of us. 

I hope that what I have heard about oshkosh will change for future events.  Having never been to Osh, I am looking at going next year and buy some Mooney bling. 

[Hank]

2 hours ago, Mufflerbearing said:

Having never been to Osh, I am looking at going next year and buy some Mooney bling. 

Me, too. This year was a possibility, until I changed jobs . . . .

[Hank]

13 hours ago, jetdriven said:

Everything in life can be solved with more horsepower, a turbocharger, or both..

"There's no replacement for displacement."  —Big Daddy Don Garlits [father of drag racing, multi-Hall of Fame member, many-time multi-champion, etc.]

"Once you fly an IO550, you can't go back."  —carusoam [Anthony Caruso, the ultimate Mooneyspace reader / writer]

[MooneyMitch]

"Once you fly an IO550, you can't go back."  —carusoam [Anthony Caruso, the ultimate Mooneyspace reader / writer]“

 

You can go back, you just never forget! 

[Yetti]

13 minutes ago, Hank said:

Me, too. This year was a possibility, until I changed jobs . . . .

What you have a plane that flies?

[jetdriven]

57 minutes ago, Hank said:

"There's no replacement for displacement."  —Big Daddy Don Garlits [father of drag racing, multi-Hall of Fame member, many-time multi-champion, etc.]

"Once you fly an IO550, you can't go back."  —carusoam [Anthony Caruso, the ultimate Mooneyspace reader / writer]

Having flown in Anthony’s 310hp Ovation, he is right. The Beechtalk guys always want to compare a V35B Bonaza to a lowly M20J, but when you roll out the 310HP Ovation as a contender, they get quiet. What’s not to like with 20kts more on the same fuel flow? 

[Sandman993]

1 hour ago, MooneyMitch said:

"Once you fly an IO550, you can't go back."  —carusoam [Anthony Caruso, the ultimate Mooneyspace reader / writer]“

 

You can go back, you just never forget! 

You have to go back... to the bank for more gas money. 

The 201 is possibly the most efficient certified aircraft built to date. The payload is almost on par with a 182 (or at least the one sharing my hangar). As some know here, I recently had the horsepower plus stc added to my overhaul. I out climbed a C182 to 12.5 (both loaded to limits) on way back from Oshkosh pitched for 120. Was able to go from Oshkosh to Victoria Texas in two hops and landed with 28gal onboard. The high compression pistons are a gift from the aviation gods. It turned my ship into a little speedster... now at 150hrs... she’s in her prime. And I’m burning less fuel

[kortopates]

I wonder if all the sales criticisms on the Mooney staff at the show are really fair for Mooney?  Don't get me wrong, I am the first to agree there is lots of room for Mooney to improve its marketing here in the US. But with the number of annual sales, does Mooney have more than one full time dedicated sales person? I actually thought most sales was done by others, such as Wood's Delta Aviation team. But Mooney can't have the sales force of Cirrus; especially at Oshkosh to man the Mooney booth exclusively with dedicated seasoned salesperson?

So weren't the majority of Mooney reps at the show actually not sales people? Probably they were there more to help out a bit and enjoy the show?

Not making excuses, but it seems expectations may be overly high given whom was actually staffing the Mooney tent. 

[MooneyMitch]

“You have to go back... to the bank for more gas money”

I found the 550G to be relatively fuel efficient...... at LOP operation.

Yes, take off 310 HP does burn approximately 32 GPH, if you wish to use full power (and that’s super fun at sea level!).

Above 8K feet, dial all back and travel 175 kts at 12.8 GPH (variations of course) and I believe that’s relatively efficient.

It was fun!! 

 

[ZuluZulu]

3 hours ago, kortopates said:

I wonder if all the sales criticisms on the Mooney staff at the show are really fair for Mooney?  Don't get me wrong, I am the first to agree there is lots of room for Mooney to improve its marketing here in the US. But with the number of annual sales, does Mooney have more than one full time dedicated sales person? I actually thought most sales was done by others, such as Wood's Delta Aviation team. But Mooney can't have the sales force of Cirrus; especially at Oshkosh to man the Mooney booth exclusively with dedicated seasoned salesperson?

So weren't the majority of Mooney reps at the show actually not sales people? Probably they were there more to help out a bit and enjoy the show?

Not making excuses, but it seems expectations may be overly high given whom was actually staffing the Mooney tent. 

Kinda defeats the whole point of having a tent though, no?  If you're not going to have anyone knowledgeable enough on the product to engage potential buyers, you can still project the image of a compelling product with your display models and go for a halo effect with downmarket buyers.  A little passion for the brand goes a long way.  Greet visitors with enthusiasm, act like you're happy to see them.

If staffing is an issue they could partner with other organizations to fill the need for volunteers.  For example, I know plenty of 99s who fly Mooneys and know a ton about them.  There are other groups that would work too.  Have a nationwide essay contest for student/new pilots and pay for people's trips to Oshkosh to staff the booth.  I bet you'd end up with some passionate advocates for the brand that way.  Not everyone is going to be able to talk details of flying them, but that wasn't being done anyway.  Inspire interest in pilots who may not be able to afford an Acclaim but might think enough of it to pull the trigger on a well-sorted C or E instead of that Arrow or 182 they've been thinking about.  And at least have a well-stocked merch table and promotional giveaways to spread brand awareness.  Anyone can sell merch.

And I didn't attend KOSH so I'm only going off the reports from people saying the energy level was flat.

[Davidv]

6 minutes ago, ZuluZulu said:

Kinda defeats the whole point of having a tent though, no?  If you're not going to have anyone knowledgeable enough on the product to engage potential buyers, you can still project the image of a compelling product with your display models and go for a halo effect with downmarket buyers.  A little passion for the brand goes a long way.  Inspire interest in pilots who may not be able to afford an Acclaim but might think enough of it to pull the trigger on a well-sorted C or E instead of that Arrow or 182 they've been thinking about.  And at least have a well-stocked merch table and promotional giveaways to spread brand awareness.  Anyone can sell merch.

Exactly, I’m not sure if Mooney understands that a strong market for older models is good for them as well.  If demand goes up, prices go up, depreciation goes down and people are more interested in forming over $800k for new.

[ZuluZulu]

Just now, Davidv said:

Exactly, I’m not sure if Mooney understands that a strong market for older models is good for them as well.  If demand goes up, prices go up, depreciation goes down and people are more interested in forming over $800k for new.

They should have one "Featured Vintage" on display every year to show what's possible in the older models.  Partner with Garmin, or Dynon, or Aspen, or whoever, to feature the best installations.  Start with @Bob_Belville!

[bradp]

I heard there may be a common reason why there weren’t any Mooney Ambassador groups or swag for sale at the Oshkosh Mooney venue.  

[mike_elliott]

16 hours ago, kortopates said:

I wonder if all the sales criticisms on the Mooney staff at the show are really fair for Mooney?  Don't get me wrong, I am the first to agree there is lots of room for Mooney to improve its marketing here in the US. But with the number of annual sales, does Mooney have more than one full time dedicated sales person? I actually thought most sales was done by others, such as Wood's Delta Aviation team. But Mooney can't have the sales force of Cirrus; especially at Oshkosh to man the Mooney booth exclusively with dedicated seasoned salesperson?

So weren't the majority of Mooney reps at the show actually not sales people? Probably they were there more to help out a bit and enjoy the show?

Not making excuses, but it seems expectations may be overly high given whom was actually staffing the Mooney tent. 

Paul, in fact, Mooney doesn't have a sales person at the moment. You are right, the event was staffed by Premier Aircraft sales with 2 very knowledgeable sales people Lee Drumheller and Travis Peffer. Delta Aviation had Mark Woods there a good portion of the time along with Steve Broussard whos sales "territory" Osh is in. Premier supplied the M20V on display, while Mooney supplied an M20U and Steve Broussard supplied a M20U 

Mooney employees included Frank and Misty Crawford, both extremely knowledgeable, Kevin Kammer who probably can cite the number of threads on each fastener in a Mooney, a new intern in marketing named Garratt and the guy whose name I forgot who runs the production floor.

Mooney also contracted former employee Dirk VanderZee to help with exhibit sales. That, along with a lot of "non paid" exhibit present Mooney knowledgeable people mitigates the claim of lack of knowledgeable staffing. I noticed that Mooney's staffing didn't swarm a person when the entered the exhibit (no tent for those that didnt go and see), but I also noticed that same procedure of non aggression by Cirrus when I went there. I think this is reasonable, as personally, I do not care for aggressive sales people. I will seek them out if I have a question, but I also get it why some like to be approached and have someone introduce themselves. In no case is making someone feel inferior because of the way they are dressed, look, etc acceptable in sales. Heck, one person and his wife that bought a new Ultra whom I spoke at length with sure didnt look like he could afford a meal, yet Lee was very respectful from the get go, and probably why it was sold.

Cirrus did have what appeared to be a Target like clothing building for official Cirrus swag. Mooney did give away a very nice coffee cup along with an appreciation lunch on Tuesday that one had to RSVP for. A few felt put out that they had to wait until the RSVP's were served first as there was only so much food ordered based on the RSVP's but they were not turned away. Everyone was welcomed to go into the air conditioned trailer, or go up top room permitting to see the air show. There was one door that said Mooney Employees on it that I snuck into once, and it had a refrigerator in it with their lunches inside, coffee supplies, etc. There were coolers of water, cokes, etc that were available for the asking outside.

They did not let other groups like MAPA, Mooney Caravan, Mooney Girls, DMAX etc. use the Mooney exhibit space and sell their groups attire or did they sponsor or fund other groups to set up a booth elsewhere this year. They did fund the Caravan's tent and BBQ I understand, but could be wrong here. 

[gsxrpilot]

12 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

They did fund the Caravan's tent and BBQ I understand, but could be wrong here. 

Mooney International is a sponsor of the Mooney Caravan and in fact our largest sponsor by $$ contributed. We really appreciate their support each year. While they don't sponsor a particular event, like the BBQ, they do sponsor the Caravan as a whole.

*The annual BBQ is paid for by tickets sold to those attending. There were some complaints this year that we were charging some people, when in actuality, everyone including Caravan participants had to purchase a ticket for the BBQ.

[MooneyMitch]

The point of my previous post regarding our participation in the OSH14 Mooney tent, along with MAPA, many giveaways, Mooney merchandise, flashy brochures, the vote contest on which future Mooney paint scheme you liked, a small flight simulator, smiling happy friendly welcoming staff [Mooney or volunteers], etc. .............was, that that situation created a very exciting, stimulating and welcoming environment for all visitors!  There were NO high pressure sales tactics involved at all.

Possibly all this has been taking place at subsequent Air Venture Mooney tents, but based on comments I've read in this thread, that inspirational environment was missing this year.

In my opinion, creating that environment at general aviation's greatest show on earth, should be part of a positive and effective marketing plan.

[kortopates]

18 hours ago, ZuluZulu said:

They should have one "Featured Vintage" on display every year to show what's possible in the older models.  Partner with Garmin, or Dynon, or Aspen, or whoever, to feature the best installations.  Start with @Bob_Belville!

Mooney was doing this fairly recently. While the factory was in hibernation, we were all complaining that Mooney didn't have a show presence at any of the shows including Oshkosh. MAPA did their best to fill the gap during this time period. But when Jerry Chen took over, we saw the factory show up everywhere; even regional AOPA fly-ins since we had Mooney at TX and CA. Initially, since Mooney didn't yet have new ones to sell, the Mooney show presence did include Mooniac's personal airplanes such as the Mooney Ambassadors and users groups selling their merchandise etc. But now that Mooney has planes to sell and that they're staffing the tent with external sales people its natural for them to want to exclusively display current production. Although I agree, marketing the brand history of Mooney with Vintage examples is only good marketing for the brand. 

[MooneyMitch]

Regardless of who or what, make the tent an exciting inspirational desirable experience for all! 

“Hey, let’s go in the Mooney tent, it looks so cool “