So Many Planes Choices! Need Biased Perspective

[irishpilot]

Hey all, I'm a former M20E owner and sold because I moved to Hawaii. Well now I'm moving to San Antonio and it's time for another plane! However I'm struggling with choices. My top three are Ovation, SR22T, and mid '80s Malibu. The only one I haven't flown is the Malibu. Insurance is rough and no T Hangars for the Malibu.

 

Here's my requirements: O2, able to fly on FLs, around 200 TAS, 850 useful (min), and $350k or less. Desired is ice protection and maybe AC.

 

Cirrus are awesome but the market is narrow for $350k but the Garmin Perspective is awesome.

 

I am partial to Mooney's because of economic speed but there are so many choices (Rocket, Ovation, Bravo) any help is greatly appreciated.

 

Lastly, shameless plug: anyone with a 200kt Mooney around KSAT, I'd live to go flying. Gas and lunch on me!

 

Ryan

 

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[hypertech]

That's kind of an odd collection of choices.  What mission led you to those conclusions?  If you are wanting a turbo, why the Ovation and not the Bravo?  I am partial to the Ovation - I have one - but if your interested in the flight levels, I can get there, but its not where the plane truly shines.  You are better off with a bravo or acclaim if that's your intended flight plan.

I can't speak to the Cirrus or the Malibu, but you are going to need to pick TKS or AC on the Mooney.  There might be one or two running around with both but the UL is really low.  Not sure a real human can take off with full tanks if you have both.

On a $350k budget, you should be able to get a nice bravo and keep $100k in the bank for when you need to do the engine.

 

Edit - if you are near KSAT, go do yourself a favor and visit All American.  It's probably the best way to see and compare the Mooney models and they might even sell you one.  

Edited June 7, 2019 by hypertech

[smccray]

3 minutes ago, irishpilot said:

 

Hey all, I'm a former M20E owner and sold because I moved to Hawaii. Well now I'm moving to San Antonio and it's time for another plane! However I'm struggling with choices. My top three are Ovation, SR22T, and mid '80s Malibu. The only one I haven't flown is the Malibu. Insurance is rough and no T Hangars for the Malibu.

 

Here's my requirements: O2, able to fly on FLs, around 200 TAS, 850 useful (min), and $350k or less. Desired is ice protection and maybe AC.

 

Cirrus are awesome but the market is narrow for $350k but the Garmin Perspective is awesome.

 

I am partial to Mooney's because of economic speed but there are so many choices (Rocket, Ovation, Bravo) any help is greatly appreciated.

 

Lastly, shameless plug: anyone with a 200kt Mooney around KSAT, I'd live to go flying. Gas and lunch on me!

 

Ryan

 

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Is pressurization important?  I would start there.

Not sure I would look at an Ovation compared to an SR22 turbo.  I would look at a Bravo, or at your budget you're in Acclaim territory.  AC and TKS is going to zap your useful load in a Mooney. 

[irishpilot]

Is pressurization important?  I would start there.
Not sure I would look at an Ovation compared to an SR22 turbo.  I would look at a Bravo, or at your budget you're in Acclaim territory.  AC and TKS is going to zap your useful load in a Mooney. 

px is nice, but not required. BTW, insurance for the Malibu is double a Mooney or SR22T

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[KLRDMD]

1 hour ago, irishpilot said:

My top three are Ovation, SR22T, and mid '80s Malibu. The only one I haven't flown is the Malibu. Insurance is rough and no T Hangars for the Malibu. Here's my requirements: O2, able to fly on FLs, around 200 TAS, 850 useful (min), and $350k or less. Desired is ice protection and maybe AC.

If you can't get a hangar for a Malibu, I would say that's out.  I've never been a Cirrus fan so that leaves the Mooney. But you're looking at Bravo or Acclaim as others have said. 200 KTAS and KI are available in both and useful load should be acceptable.

[irishpilot]

That's kind of an odd collection of choices.  What mission led you to those conclusions?  If you are wanting a turbo, why the Ovation and not the Bravo?  I am partial to the Ovation - I have one - but if your interested in the flight levels, I can get there, but its not where the plane truly shines.  You are better off with a bravo or acclaim if that's your intended flight plan.
I can't speak to the Cirrus or the Malibu, but you are going to need to pick TKS or AC on the Mooney.  There might be one or two running around with both but the UL is really low.  Not sure a real human can take off with full tanks if you have both.
On a $350k budget, you should be able to get a nice bravo and keep $100k in the bank for when you need to do the engine.
 
Edit - if you are near KSAT, go do yourself a favor and visit All American.  It's probably the best way to see and compare the Mooney models and they might even sell you one.  

The Malibu can fly high and 1300 useful load. perfect for 700NM trips. Cirrus can do the same, but useful load is tight. Hard time finding a Cirrus with TKS that doesn't have AC.

90% use will be me solo traveling 700NM to see family every week. 10% will be family use (wife, kids (7&5). only need about 2.5 hrs fuel plus reserve. I think a Bravo can meet those reqs. Cirrus can with about 60 gals of fuel.

You are right about the Turbo. Ovations price points are nice. I have yet to fly a Bravo and need to do so.

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[carusoam]

For best ownership experience...

Buy the local brand.

Whichever one that is...

Hmmmm, San Antonio, TX... aren’t Mooneys built in TX?

 

If you like speed... Mooney has an excess of that...

If you like efficiency... Mooney has plenty, without flying at Vz...

If you are a fan of safety... Consider putting airbag seatbelts in your Mooney....

If you like awesome moving art... Mooney is full up with that, inside and out...

If you like tremendous power to weight ratios... A Mooney with 310hp is exhilarating while accelerating...

700nm weekly... Speed is everything.  Turbos and FLs go together... as does ground speeds well over 200nmph...

Acclaims can have twin TN’d 310hp and climb like wild into the FLs... even 280hp is pretty adequate...

Options include...

• built in O2
• Fiki TKS
• Dual alternators/batteries
• AC

Lightest Long Body Mooneys have 1100# UL... Eagles and Os... Are you sure you want the turbos?  310hp versions are available... Screamin’ Eagle and Standing O.

There aren’t that many Acclaims available... its older brother Bravo, is fully capable, but not as highly over powered.

 

 

Sorry, What was the question....? 

Go Mooney!

-a-

[carusoam]

2 hours ago, irishpilot said:

 

 

Cirrusi are awfulesome but the market is (also) narrow for $350k but the Garmin Perspective is awesome.

 

Lastly, shameless plug: anyone with a 200kt Mooney around KSAT, I'd live to go flying. Gas and lunch on me!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ryan,

I tried to quote you, but Siri seamed to make some changes automatically.... 

When in the SanAntonio area... Stop by AAA... check In with David and Jimmy...   All American Aircraft...

They Have most of their Mooney planes listed on the internet...

David took me flying in a really cool O.

Best regards,

-a-

[toto]

I've never so much as sat in a Malibu, but I've heard terrible things about maintenance on the really early models. (I think it was introduced in 84?)

You might keep a few extra cylinders on the hat rack. 

For $200k, it's definitely an enticing idea to get a cabin-class pressurized turbo with FIKI and AC, but you'll probably want an extra Mooney to use while it's in the shop. 

[irishpilot]

Ryan,
I tried to quote you, but Siri seamed to make some changes automatically.... 
When in the SanAntonio area... Stop by AAA... check In with David and Jimmy...   All American Aircraft...
They Have most of their Mooney planes listed on the internet...
David took me flying in a really cool O.
Best regards,
-a-

Thanks@carusoam! Will check out AAA.

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[BKlott]

I would recommend a Grumman Cheetah. It won’t be able to do anything you are wanting it to do but you will have one helluva lot of fun flying it.

Edited June 7, 2019 by BKlott

[Andy95W]

Someone here posted the following quote: “An M20M Bravo is 90% of an Acclaim for 1/3 of the price.”

Best airplane out there that fits your mission profile is an M20K 252 and you’ll spend 1/2 of your budget for the nicest one out there. 

[Niko182]

I'd also say 252 or Bravo

Bravo is going to be easier to find with TKS and a lot of them are FIKI

252 fiki is nice but very rare.

Bravo is a little faster on a lot more fuel.

Personally I'd say the 252 is the way to go.

[Shadrach]

3 hours ago, toto said:

I've never so much as sat in a Malibu, but I've heard terrible things about maintenance on the really early models. (I think it was introduced in 84?)

You might keep a few extra cylinders on the hat rack. 

For $200k, it's definitely an enticing idea to get a cabin-class pressurized turbo with FIKI and AC, but you'll probably want an extra Mooney to use while it's in the shop. 

Cylinder issues were mostly pilot induced. Malibu was first modern recip to have LOP power setting recommended in the POH. Ignorant pilots enjoyed the economy but thought they were being conservative by running just a bit richer...this yielded lousy cylinder life.

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, Andy95W said:

Someone here posted the following quote: “An M20M Bravo is 90% of an Acclaim for 1/3 of the price.”

I resemble that remark!

[Austintatious]

Well, I just bought a Rocket for all the reasons you listed...

I Didnt want TKS or AC...AC in planes like this just doesn't make sense IMHO.  You are only on the ground with the engine running for a short time and then you climb on up to cool air.  More maintenance, More weight, limited use.   Better off getting one of those ice chest you fill up and it blows air across the ice. Lighter than the AC and it probably puts out more cool air anyway!

[LANCECASPER]

I've owned Bravos, an Ovation and a later model Malibu Mirage. I wouldn't go near the early Malibus unless you enjoy $15,000 - $25,000 annuals, The PA46 piston airplanes pushed the power plants to the max. If you want Flight Levels skip the Ovation, however the Bravo loves the teens and higher. I own a Bravo - it's my favorite Mooney for the money.

[Shadrach]

Have you considered a Turbo Normalized A36? Both are TKS equipped.

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/33211133/2001-beechcraft-a36-bonanza

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/33186279/1992-beechcraft-a36-bonanza

 

Edited June 8, 2019 by Shadrach

[KLRDMD]

24 minutes ago, Austintatious said:

AC in planes like this just doesn't make sense IMHO.

Said by someone that obviously doesn't live in Arizona !

I just has A/C installed in my airplane at annual last week.

[aviatoreb]

Bonanza turbine?

[Mcstealth]

5 hours ago, carusoam said:

For best ownership experience...

Buy the local brand.

Whichever one that is...

Hmmmm, San Antonio, TX... aren’t Mooneys built in TX?

 

If you like speed... Mooney has an excess of that...

If you like efficiency... Mooney has plenty, without flying at Vz...

If you are a fan of safety... Consider putting airbag seatbelts in your Mooney....

If you like awesome moving art... Mooney is full up with that, inside and out...

If you like tremendous power to weight ratios... A Mooney with 310hp is exhilarating while accelerating...

700nm weekly... Speed is everything.  Turbos and FLs go together... as does ground speeds well over 200nmph...

Acclaims can have twin TN’d 310hp and climb like wild into the FLs... even 280hp is pretty adequate...

Options include...

• built in O2
• Fiki TKS
• Dual alternators/batteries
• AC

Lightest Long Body Mooneys have 1100# UL... Eagles and Os... Are you sure you want the turbos?  310hp versions are available... Screamin’ Eagle and Standing O.

There aren’t that many Acclaims available... its older brother Bravo, is fully capable, but not as highly over powered.

 

 

Sorry, What was the question....? 

Go Mooney!

-a-

The man did ask for a biased opinion

[carusoam]

47 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Have you considered a Turbo Normalized A36? Both are TKS equipped.

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/33211133/2001-beechcraft-a36-bonanza

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/33186279/1992-beechcraft-a36-bonanza

 

Ross,

Not sure on the proper progression... but MSers have started here and moved on to turbines...

After Rocket comes turbine home built... Lancair PTIV, flying according to Tom...

After Ovation comes turbine Piper... P46T,  flying according to Jerry...

Something to do with the Rocket Engineering experience one gains...

Following along with Erik’s recommendation..... The Beechcraft Harpoon...

Listen to Darwin Conrad tell how many, of what, Rocket Engineering has converted...  (see video attached below)

I have seen a twin turbine conversion at my home drome...

The Standing O is a Rocket Engineering / Midwest Mooney project...

I got help on the decision to go Standing O from Cris, who generously offered to fly me in his Screamin’ Eagle... 

How is that for some home spun bias..? 

As far as economics go... the turbines cost a bunch more to acquire, but they last equally longer...(?) 

Starting out, keep an eye on insurance costs... that first year can be an eye opener...

this is AAA’s list of things for sale... many of which are probably at their home base... https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/list/?pcid=17527&dlr=1

To find Jimmy and David... In Spring Branch...  http://www.allamericanaircraft.com/contact.htm

Don’t get me wrong... the following is a video of a PT6 turbine... wrapped in some funky brand b clothes...

If only it were wrapped properly in Brand M Clothing.... 

(technically, the PT6 is a bit big for a four seater...)

Best regards,

-a-

 

[daytonabch04]

I have a Bravo in Temple. Don’t need a turbo but it’s nice to climb out at 1000+fpm. Haven’t flown in the FLs yet with O2 but have it. No TKS or AC and was under 200k. Easily can do 170-200kts. Can’t beat a Bravo for the price. 

[irishpilot]

(technically, the PT6 is a bit big for a four seater...)



Yeah, if I had a whole lot more $$ I'd definitely fly a turbine for my personal ride. I fly a T-6A with the PT-6 and it's great. cruise all day long at 400 pph. Gobs of torque, climbs great and is blast to fly.

BTW, I don't think a PT-6 is too much for four people! :-)


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[Jerry 5TJ]

A nice 1986 Malibu with a well-treated TSIO-520 can be great transportation.  But the annual costs likely will be twice the amount you’d pay for an Ovation.

You do get AC, and FIKI, and six seats.   Typical useful load around 1300 pounds. It will cruise at 200 knots at FL200 on about 16 GPH LOP.  The pressurized cabin will be around 5,000’ equivalent.  

Yes, the 43’ wingspan means a 50’ hangar.  Those wings hold 120 (optional 140) gallons of 100LL so a six or seven hour range is available.  

I suggest you talk to fellow Texan Joe Casey who knows the PA46 well.  His review of the Malibu is useful:

Joe Casey Malibu

The PA46 airframe is very good, and you won’t have many maintenance problems aft of the firewall.