Garmin G5 VS aspen E5

[Ragsf15e]

29 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

7 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

An STC is not "law". It's permission to do something or use something. There are lots of other ways to get permission. An STC is just one of them. It's especially easy to get other permission when the STC was obviously rushed to market with the absolute minimum approvals needed to meet marketing deadlines. 

When there are such obvious inconsistencies, I'm not one to just throw up my hands and say, "oh well, the STC says." 

Nice.  Now if we could just count on all the FSDOs being reasonable, that would be great!

 

[rbridges]

2 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

There are lots of Aspens flying around with G5's backing them up. Mine will be up for sale when the MAX units become available. I'll add the Aspen MFD and dump the G5.

Funny, I was just thinking about your setup while reading through the responses.  I was kinda thinking the same thing.  Update my PFD to MAX, and then add the MFD.  So, this lets us get rid of the AI and in my case, the vacuum? 

[Bryan]

2 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

And to make room for the MFD where will you put that JPI900? Upgrade it to a 930 and move it over to the right of the GPS where it belongs? 

I bought a 930 today along with CiES senders.  I almost went with the 900 but I like how the data is represented on the 930 better/bigger.

@gsxrpilot, can you PM (or email) me a full resolution version version of your completed panel.  John Miller is going to do do my panel redo and I am interested in the panel design and silk-screening.  What did you (or @Chocks) use for panel planning?

[gsxrpilot]

24 minutes ago, Bryan said:

I bought a 930 today along with CiES senders.  I almost went with the 900 but I like how the data is represented on the 930 better/bigger.

@gsxrpilot, can you PM (or email) me a full resolution version version of your completed panel.  John Miller is going to do do my panel redo and I am interested in the panel design and silk-screening.  What did you (or @Chocks) use for panel planning?

We mocked up the panel using acrylic/lexan and then laid it all out in SolidWorks. @"Chocks" did the CAD in SolidWorks and then we took it do a metal shop to cut the panel on the water jet. After finishing and paint, we had it laser engraved at a place that does trophy's and stuff. It turned out really nice.

I'll send you some pictures.

[Bob_Belville]

On 1/28/2019 at 8:45 PM, Bryan said:

I bought a 930 today along with CiES senders.  I almost went with the 900 but I like how the data is represented on the 930 better/bigger.

@gsxrpilot, can you PM (or email) me a full resolution version version of your completed panel.  John Miller is going to do do my panel redo and I am interested in the panel design and silk-screening.  What did you (or @Chocks) use for panel planning?

With the 930 you might want to consider something like this. When the STEC 3100 and Aspen Max are available I can go with the MDF w bat. and remove the bu alt and AI with minimal disruption. (Locating the 3100 will require more scheming but I can remote either or both the xponder and audiopanel.)

 

[LANCECASPER]

On 1/27/2019 at 10:16 PM, Ragsf15e said:

None of the new Aspen “max” lineup requires keeping the old AI. They changed the way they account for pitot/static failure (icing) by using the gps GS input to aid the ahrs.  And they used the new FAA STC process like Garmin with the G5.  No more old AI required now.

While it may not "require" a backup, what happens if it goes dark? I'm always going to have a backup AI whether it's required or not.

[Ragsf15e]

Or just stay real current with partial panel ops because you’re still required to have those instruments.

[m20kmooney]

On 1/28/2019 at 9:28 PM, Bob_Belville said:

With the 930 you might want to consider something like this. When the STEC 3100 and Aspen Max are available I can go with the MDF w bat. and remove the bu alt and AI with minimal disruption. (Locating the 3100 will require more scheming but I can remote either or both the xponder and audiopanel.)

 

Being that the EDM is primary I want it to be directly in my view. I would have removed the WX900 and put in an EDM900 in its place. Then put a WX500 in the back or move the WX900 where the edm is now. 

Edited January 31, 2019 by m20kmooney

[Bob_Belville]

1 hour ago, m20kmooney said:

Being that the EDM is primary I want it to be directly in my view. I would have removed the WX900 and put in an EDM900 in its place. Then put a WX500 in the back or move the WX900 where the edm is now. 

Naw. I've had this discussion once or twice before with Paul Steen. The EDM does not belong in the primary aviate/navigate portion of the panel. OSISTM. I've had the 930 for over 6 years and would not move it. I only scan it when everything else is under control. Yeah it's primary, so what? The steam instruments it replaces were scattered all over the place - none of them where youse guys want to stick a 900. And the 900 is severely inferior to the 930. Finally I like the dedicated Stormscope. The GTN has plenty going on without adding lightning. But hey, thanks for the advice.

Because the GTN is shallow at the top we hope we can move it up and fit the audio panel and the STEC 3100 below it. I'm scheduled in the avionics shop for October. By then both the 3100 and the Max upgrade for the Aspen should be available. Twin Lakes is really busy - out to October! 

[Marauder]

Naw. I've had this discussion once or twice before with Paul Steen. The EDM does not belong in the primary aviate/navigate portion of the panel. OSISTM. I've had the 930 for over 6 years and would not move it. I only scan it when everything else is under control. Yeah it's primary, so what? The steam instruments it replaces were scattered all over the place - none of them where youse guys want to stick a 900. And the 900 is severely inferior to the 930. Finally I like the dedicated Stormscope. The GTN has plenty going on without adding lightning. But hey, thanks for the advice.
Because the GTN is shallow at the top we hope we can move it up and fit the audio panel and the STEC 3100 below it. I'm scheduled in the avionics shop for October. By then both the 3100 and the Max upgrade for the Aspen should be available. Twin Lakes is really busy - out to October! 

This is where you and I differ on the topic Bob. Just because the original gauges were laid out all over the place, doesn’t mean it was right. Take a look at the original shotgun panel designs of the 1960s. Many were not conducive to a logical IFR scan.

I had the original GEM installed in my line of sight and when I had an issue on an IFR flight back in the 1990s, it was already part of my scan and had provided some early warning that something was going on. Not enough to trigger a RAD or engine light found on a modern JPI, but enough temp swings on a cylinder to let me know something was going on.

In addition to the engine monitoring features, the JPI fuel to destination and fuel to empty are something I monitor.

When my panel was a lot more cluttered, the center mount made sense and I still like it there.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[LANCECASPER]

12 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Or just stay real current with partial panel ops because you’re still required to have those instruments.

Never a bad thing to stay current with any kind of training, but in real attitude failure situations it isn't working very well. That's why the FAA encourages a 2nd attitude indicator.

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC91-75.pdf

[m20kmooney]

4 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

And the 900 is severely inferior to the 930

How so? Hate to break it to you but they are functionally identical instruments! The only difference is size. Which is why I suggested you put in the EDM900.

Edited January 31, 2019 by m20kmooney

[gsxrpilot]

4 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

And the 900 is severely inferior to the 930.

Either this is all hyperbole or you've got some explaining to do. 

I spent a lot of time with these two units side by side before deciding on the 900. The ONLY difference I could find, was screen size. And that was easily mitigated by putting it on the pilot's side of the panel. No doubt a larger screen is nicer... if there's room for it. But "severely inferior"?

[Niko182]

On 1/28/2019 at 6:28 PM, Bob_Belville said:

With the 930 you might want to consider something like this. When the STEC 3100 and Aspen Max are available I can go with the MDF w bat. and remove the bu alt and AI with minimal disruption. (Locating the 3100 will require more scheming but I can remote either or both the xponder and audiopanel.)

 

If it were me, the rest of the 6 pack would go. The new aspen would replace the cdi and the airspeed indicator. Stormscope would replace the turn coordinator. Edm 930 would replace the stec box, the AI, alt ind, and the stormscopes location. And id make the Audio panel, 750, kx155, and stec3100 all in one stack and have the transponder be remote. I personally dont like anything on the right side of the panel.

[MIm20c]

2 hours ago, Niko182 said:

If it were me, the rest of the 6 pack would go. The new aspen would replace the cdi and the airspeed indicator. Stormscope would replace the turn coordinator. Edm 930 would replace the stec box, the AI, alt ind, and the stormscopes location. And id make the Audio panel, 750, kx155, and stec3100 all in one stack and have the transponder be remote. I personally dont like anything on the right side of the panel.

I like your reasoning to keep everything on the pilot side. Keep in mind with the G5 (or E5) you will be stuck with the rest of the 6 pack forever.  If it really bothers you a different option might be a good idea. 

[Niko182]

29 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

I like your reasoning to keep everything on the pilot side. Keep in mind with the G5 (or E5) you will be stuck with the rest of the 6 pack forever.  If it really bothers you a different option might be a good idea. 

I'm going with a edm 900 specifically so I can make everything fit on the left side of the panel. I want the whole ride side to be able to fit an ipad. so I want it to be clean.

[Bob_Belville]

9 hours ago, m20kmooney said:

How so? Hate to break it to you but they are functionally identical instruments! The only difference is size. Which is why I suggested you put in the EDM900.

Size matters.

[Niko182]

17 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

Size matters.

Its not the size of the wave, its the motion of the ocean.

The edm 900 gets that motion just right.

[gsxrpilot]

I won't say anything bad about the 930. If you've got the real estate in the panel and the funds in the checkbook, absolutely do it. In fact, I don't think you can go wrong with any of these:

JPI EDM900/930
EI MVP-50 or CGR30P/C combo

And it doesn't matter which side of the panel its on, as long as it's IN the panel.

Along with some CiES digital fuel senders, and you've increased the value of your Mooney, extended its engine life, and greatly increased its range and safety.

Flying around without an engine monitor in this day and age is just silly, pissing away money and safety.

[rbridges]

I thought having the engine monitor on the right side would be awkward, but Bob let me sit in his plane during the Summit, and I was surprised how easy it was to read from the pilot's seat.  I think either is fine, and it probably depends on preference.  

[Oliver]

This might or might not be a factor for you: I understand that the G5 can be installed by a local A&P.

I'm not sure if this is also possible with the Aspen.

[LANCECASPER]

On 2/7/2019 at 3:38 PM, Oliver said:

This might or might not be a factor for you: I understand that the G5 can be installed by a local A&P.

I'm not sure if this is also possible with the Aspen.

The Aspen has so many more feature possibilities, depending on what you decide to interface it with, no way would I let an A & P install an Aspen. I would want someone that has experience interfacing it to everything conceivable so you get your money's worth.

[Browncbr1]

As long as the big flashing red warnings catch your eye in the peripheral, the edm on the right panel is fine.   Mine is on the right side and I see no benefit to it being any closer, except in extreme sun glare coming through the right rear window.  

[Navi]

On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 11:29 PM, Bryan said:

Does the VFR model (Aspen E5) drive autopilots? The hardware is the same and can be easily upgraded but unsure the stock E5 has that functionality enabled.

Yes, just about any autopilot out there, and will have unique compatibility with the TruTrak Vizion and any TT offering in the future,  except the Garmin GFC 500. It REQUIRES at least one G5, two for full feature operation.  The huge negative of the GFC 500 is that it is tied to the G5s , limiting your future options in using modern more capable nav heads. The TXI series make the GFC 500 an awesome product, but the $$$ are out of most budgets.

[Supercop0184]

On 1/31/2019 at 9:28 PM, gsxrpilot said:

I won't say anything bad about the 930. If you've got the real estate in the panel and the funds in the checkbook, absolutely do it. In fact, I don't think you can go wrong with any of these:

JPI EDM900/930
EI MVP-50 or CGR30P/C combo

And it doesn't matter which side of the panel its on, as long as it's IN the panel.

Along with some CiES digital fuel senders, and you've increased the value of your Mooney, extended its engine life, and greatly increased its range and safety.

Flying around without an engine monitor in this day and age is just silly, pissing away money and safety.

Well all I have is a lowly edm-700 with that I JUST sent off to have USB and fuel flow added to it. That instrument is staying for a while. Now if digital senders would really improve what I have, I’d definitely consider it.