Insurance up 20%

[xcrmckenna]

Parker is my new agent as of March. I renewed three days after I passed my IR check ride. I was pretty disappointed it was less than $200 savings. But he found me cheaper quotes than AOPA. I’ve flown over 130 hours every year I’ve had the plane.


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[MATTS875]

Travers insurance contacted me today and said my rates were going way up. They told me the  insurance company that they were using last year were underpricing policies and no longer writing. Here is where I am.  1998 201 insured for $160k total hours is around 250-260  I have about 60 hours in a Mooney. Last year I paid $2300 and she is telling me it’s going to $3800  no accidents and the plane is in an enclosed hangar. I am up for any suggestions you all might have.  No IFR ticket but didn’t have it last year either. Thanks for any advice 

 

 

[carusoam]

Having the first year of experience out of the way is good for a much lower cost...

Having the IR is also a good way to reduce cost...

Check In with @Parker_Woodruff Parker should be able to give you a hand at controlling insurance costs as well...

Parker has recently opened an insurance office after working in the business for years...

Best regards,

-a-

[Eight8Victor]

@MATTS875 Try John Gostinger here:

John Gostinger
LL Johns & Associates, Inc.
o: 248-666-4400 | o: 800-662-4401

[Shadrach]

Ours is due this month. Premium up $800 over last year. Told that having an 81year old as a named pilot was increasing premium. Dropped 81yr old named pilot and insurance is still up 18%. Oddly given the 81 yr old meets the any pilot requirements and there are no age exclusion, he can still fly under that part of the policy.

[MATTS875]

Thank you. I will definitely be calling. 

[RobertGary1]

I think we conflating two different things here. There are two things that affect your rate. 1) Personal situation changes 2) Systemic market changes. While your rate may go down if you get an instrument rating, etc its not a reflection of the market as a whole. The fact is that rates have gone up systemically, especially for higher time pilots. A couple years ago we started seeing rates really come down for high time pilots as underwriters decided to try to get more to balance in their portfolio. Now the market is changing a bit. Its exactly like the stock market. Sometimes your stock goes down because the CEO goosed a congresswoman and sometimes it goes down because the market as a whole is moving toward bonds.

-Robert

[Parker_Woodruff]

Happy to help with quotes, Matt.

Parker

214-295-5055

[LANCECASPER]

17 hours ago, MATTS875 said:

Travers insurance contacted me today and said my rates were going way up. They told me the  insurance company that they were using last year were underpricing policies and no longer writing. Here is where I am.  1998 201 insured for $160k total hours is around 250-260  I have about 60 hours in a Mooney. Last year I paid $2300 and she is telling me it’s going to $3800  no accidents and the plane is in an enclosed hangar. I am up for any suggestions you all might have.  No IFR ticket but didn’t have it last year either. Thanks for any advice 

Sounds like they were trying to make sure thy beat everyone else when they gave you a rate to get you signed up last year. It's unfortunate when they do that since it played into your decision to buy the airplane and it set up unrealistic expectations. This years rate sounds like what last years rate should have been.

[MATTS875]

10 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

Happy to help with quotes, Matt.

Parker

214-295-5055

Thanks Parker. I will give you a call tomorrow 

[MATTS875]

I called AOPA today and old republic quoted $3093. So far that’s the best quote. Not too much higher than last year but definitely an increase

[Parker_Woodruff]

 

10 hours ago, MATTS875 said:

Thanks Parker. I will give you a call tomorrow 

 

Looking forward to it!

[Stephen]

On 1/17/2019 at 6:39 PM, Yetti said:

Mine went down a bit.  I told them how many hours I had and they took a little more off.

Ditto, using Travers

[RobertGary1]

On 6/23/2019 at 7:35 AM, Stephen said:

Ditto, using Travers

Eventually you reach a point where more hours don't affect things. But the concern here is that rates are going up systematically.

-Robert 

[donkaye]

On 6/19/2019 at 8:02 PM, Shadrach said:

Oddly given the 81 yr old meets the any pilot requirements and there are no age exclusion, he can still fly under that part of the policy.

Maybe, but you can be assured that if he has an accident, the insurance company will pay and then sue him under the subrogation clause.

[DonMuncy]

2 minutes ago, donkaye said:

Maybe, but you can be assured that if he has an accident, the insurance company will pay and then sue him under the subrogation clause.

They will if there is a reasonable expectation he was negligent. Insurance companies are smart enough to know not to chase very poor subrogation claims. Not like plaintiff's lawyers who will sue everybody in sight, figuring someone will pay something, even on a virtually non-existent claim.

[donkaye]

1 hour ago, DonMuncy said:

They will if there is a reasonable expectation he was negligent. Insurance companies are smart enough to know not to chase very poor subrogation claims. Not like plaintiff's lawyers who will sue everybody in sight, figuring someone will pay something, even on a virtually non-existent claim.

How about this one.  I was supposed to do the initial training for the pilot of the Mooney that went down by DVT last week.  His insurance company declined the waiver of Subrogation.  While I have my own CFI hull and liability insurance, it wouldn't completely cover an $800,000 Acclaim Ultra.  I wrote the insurance company regarding being penny wise and pound foolish, but to no avail.  I wanted to do the training, but I declined it on the basis of the lack of insurance.  I feel terrible about what happened, and wish Mark a speedy recovery, but I keep wondering if anything I might have said during the training could have led to a different outcome.

I keep thinking what might have happened regarding the insurance company had I done the training without the waiver....  That cemented my insistence on full insurance coverage including the waiver before I do any instructing in the future.

[DonMuncy]

35 minutes ago, donkaye said:

How about this one.  I was supposed to do the initial training for the pilot of the Mooney that went down by DVT last week.  His insurance company declined the waiver of Subrogation.  While I have my own CFI hull and liability insurance, it wouldn't completely cover an $800,000 Acclaim Ultra.  I wrote the insurance company regarding being penny wise and pound foolish, but to no avail.  I wanted to do the training, but I declined it on the basis of the lack of insurance.  I feel terrible about what happened, and wish Mark a speedy recovery, but I keep wondering if anything I might have said during the training could have led to a different outcome.

I keep thinking what might have happened regarding the insurance company had I done the training without the waiver....  That cemented my insistence on full insurance coverage including the waiver before I do any instructing in the future.

That is a pretty sad situation. Someone who could greatly benefit, lost out. I recognize that there is some liability risk to an insurance company (effectively) covering an additional person, but knowing your credentials and abilities, I figure the pilot (and plane) was a lot less of a risk with you on board than with the pilot alone. If the underwriter ran that whole scenario through the thought process, you would have thought they would have been financially ahead to issue the waiver to you without additional premium.

Maybe Parker can weigh in. He knows how underwriters think. 

[Shadrach]

3 hours ago, donkaye said:

Maybe, but you can be assured that if he has an accident, the insurance company will pay and then sue him under the subrogation clause.

I asked my agent about our partner directly and he said that there is no age exclusion on the any pilot policy (different company would be underwriting the policy).  I then asked if there was any savings in dropping the any pilot policy and he told me that the almost no GA underwriter will write a policy with named pilots only. He said they all have any pilot coverage. It will likely never be an issue, I don’t think our octogenarian is interested in single pilot ops.

[RobertGary1]

16 hours ago, donkaye said:

How about this one.  I was supposed to do the initial training for the pilot of the Mooney that went down by DVT last week.  His insurance company declined the waiver of Subrogation.  While I have my own CFI hull and liability insurance, it wouldn't completely cover an $800,000 Acclaim Ultra.  I wrote the insurance company regarding being penny wise and pound foolish, but to no avail.  I wanted to do the training, but I declined it on the basis of the lack of insurance.  I feel terrible about what happened, and wish Mark a speedy recovery, but I keep wondering if anything I might have said during the training could have led to a different outcome.

I keep thinking what might have happened regarding the insurance company had I done the training without the waiver....  That cemented my insistence on full insurance coverage including the waiver before I do any instructing in the future.

Would they have been willing to add you as a named pilot? I've had students do that for me before.

-Robert

[donkaye]

44 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

Would they have been willing to add you as a named pilot? I've had students do that for me before.

-Robert

No.  I tried that.

 

[Danb]

That’s unreal you Don being one of the best Mooney trainers in the USA the insurance industry can be that dumb.

[daytonabch04]

When I got my transition training, the well known Mooney instructor insisted I add him as a named pilot and he is still on my policy today ( I forgot to remove him after training complete). With his hours and experience there was no increase in premium to my policy as a named pilot. I also have an open pilot policy/clause. 

[RobertGary1]

13 hours ago, daytonabch04 said:

When I got my transition training, the well known Mooney instructor insisted I add him as a named pilot and he is still on my policy today ( I forgot to remove him after training complete). With his hours and experience there was no increase in premium to my policy as a named pilot. I also have an open pilot policy/clause. 

That's the way to do it. I think I'm still on a few people's policies. As long as you don't exceed a certain number (3 I think) the rates don't go up. At some point they consider you a club with too many pilots on the policy and the rate goes up.

-Robert

[M20F]

$1200 for $90K hull, Falcon, me and another pilot (he has low Mooney hours).