Brittain Autopilot Systems

[mnewb1]

Question...aren't AccuTrak and AccuFlight non-certified AP for experimentals?  How do you use them in certified airplanes?

[N601RX]

No its a certified autopilot that is STC'd for most Mooneys up through the J model.  Its an older autopilot that has been around since the 60's.  They work well and are very economical to install compared to anything new.  They are made by Brittain Industries who is still in business.  You can no longer buy a new one, but used ones are occasionally available and Brittain will still service them.

[mnewb1]

any idea what a fresh install would costs these days?  this would be for a Brittain system with alt hold and gps steering

[KSMooniac]

any idea what a fresh install would costs these days?  this would be for a Brittain system with alt hold and gps steering

 

That is nearly impossible to pin down... since Brittain isn't manufacturing new parts, you have to either get on their long list to buy a used system, or search & acquire the components on your own, then send them to Brittain for service and/or installation.  They pop up for sale here, barnstormers.com, and beechtalk.com every now and then.  You need to figure out what components are approved for installation into whatever your candidate airplane is first of course.  You can probably get the Brittain components for less than a couple thousand (except modern GPSS...that is more), but service and installation costs will vary.  Still it will be a lot cheaper than buying a new STEC.

[scottfromiowa]

Give Brittain a call. Let them know what you want...If just parts or labor to install. They don't bite.

I just had all servo's replaced (including step) and installation of altitude hold to supplement an existing Wing-leveler with Heading (Accu-Flite) and GPS-Track (Accu-Trak). To get GPS steer would require Iccarus or other comparable system. Ask about capabilities (Approach Certified) etc...so you can compare with purchase/install of another system.

[scottfromiowa]

They have some improved set-ups coming...awaiting a long FAA approval process. Maybe your bird can be the "test-bed"? Good luck,

Scott

[211º]

Reviving this thread again...

I'm quite pleased with how my new-to-me plane (M20E) trims out... Especially compared to the 150F.

Getting a little smarter on the system. Enjoyed see Brittain's Cecilia and Kevin mentioned in this thread as I've chatted with them over the last few weeks - very helpful and very good to work with

Found an aged, cracked hose connecting a unit to fresh air filter. Swapped it out this evening to see if that makes any difference tomorrow.

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[carusoam]

Try to find out what the 2" long, blocked, blue hose connected (where it says INT) is supposed to be doing...  That doesn't look like an aviation Maint. standard.

check all the hoses for flexibility and sealing.  The harder they get, the less they hold the Vaccuum....

Just wondering,

-a-

[Browncbr1]

That plugged line goes to the pitch indicator or to the on/off valve.  I can't remember, but you should be able to find the install manual on here somewhere and it is easy to read.  I am pretty sure it goes to the pitch indicator.  Also, the entire control box should be installed 2" behind the firewall. The only thing in the tail should be the servos and altitude reference chamber. (The aluminum box at the bottom of the photo... It should actually be on the belly skin.)  At the minimum, check your w&b and replace the cracked black hose going to the filter.  That install doesn't look legal to me.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Browncbr1

[Hank]

3 hours ago, Browncbr1 said:

 Also, the entire control box should be installed 2" behind the firewall. The only thing in the tail should be the servos and altitude reference chamber. 

I dunno about that . . . My main control unit (forget the name right now) is mounted up high in the tailcone, back by the static vents. Talking to Brittain when I had servo trouble, that's where it's supposed to be. We decided my issues were either a bad servo or that big thingy; fortunately it was a badly torn servo boot, redone for $135 plus shipping to Tulsa and back. Oh, I have no altitude reference chamber, either, but sure would like to!

[MyNameIsNobody]

56 minutes ago, Hank said:

I dunno about that . . . My main control unit (forget the name right now) is mounted up high in the tailcone, back by the static vents. Talking to Brittain when I had servo trouble, that's where it's supposed to be. We decided my issues were either a bad servo or that big thingy; fortunately it was a badly torn servo boot, redone for $135 plus shipping to Tulsa and back. Oh, I have no altitude reference chamber, either, but sure would like to!

+1 Brittain installed altitude hold in tail cone. No room under panel. Not optimal, but ours works as positioned.

[Guitarmaster]

On May 4, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Seth said:

 

 

I have heard good and bad opinions about this system.  But for a low cost working autopilot, it doesn’t seem bad.  My PC system works wonderfully.  I have no other autopilot, but with some of the reports I’ve read from other pilots, it’s really a good system for the cost (as one pilot put it “laughable” amount compared to certain S Tec systems - I got that from the only thread I could find on AOPA message boards).  Others say they are not reliable.  I have not yet called the service center in Tulsa, Oklahoma, but I may call in the near future.

 

 

 

 

Does anyone have any experience with Brittain or have more than just the PC System (Positive Control - wing leveler) such as Accutrack or Accuflight?  I know that it can couple onto a GPS or VOR signal and track the plane for you.  They have a pitch and altitude hold system as well, but the sight, http://www.brittainautopilots.com/, has only basic information.

 

 

 

 

 

I’m not thinking of adding an autopilot yet simply due to cost since I’m considering the Garmin 430w or 530w, but if for really just a bit more I could have a decent AP, that’s not a bad deal.  I already have the wing leveler, and if the system really just locks onto a heading a signaled from the GPS or VOR then that would be quite an easy system to use for a basic autopilot.  An altitude hold would be pretty neat as well, but one step at a time here. 

 

 

 

 

 

So, opinions?  Information?  What do you know about the Brittain systems . . .

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

 

 

-Seth

 

Talk to Jerry or Kevin.  Tell them what you have currently and what you want to do.  They will tell you what you need to 'Trak' down.  After you do, send it to them for overhaul.  

Mine needed a BI805 valve and a AccuTrak computer.  I found the BI805 on eBay and Brittain has computers.  

I don't have it installed yet, but the parts were ~$1300 overhauled and ready for install.  Probably another $1500 for the install.  IT's pretty straight-forward if you are handy, but the computer needs to be wired in by an avionics tech (or maybe hanger elves if they know avionics.)

The biggest issue to the install is finding room behind the panel for the computer.  It is nearly a foot deep, so in our airplanes it can be a trick.

You have two choices when it comes to Brittain.  You can wait on their list or you can be aggressive about tracking down parts.  Start to finish, it took me about four months to find everything.  Now for the install.....

[211º]

The swapped hose did make the ground check more responsive - eg, rudder left makes control wheel go right and the turn portion of the turn indicator seemed more responsive on the ground.

Pulling the "Pull Pitch On" inflight still causes the airplane to pitch down significantly after about 5 seconds - there is clue in that detail for me to figure out.

Also, the tracking is inop right now. "Feels" like there is or may be one overall issue that is causing the vacuum to not seal somewhere or some other similar issue.

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[MyNameIsNobody]

10 hours ago, 211º said:

The swapped hose did make the ground check more responsive - eg, rudder left makes control wheel go right and the turn portion of the turn indicator seemed more responsive on the ground.

Pulling the "Pull Pitch On" inflight still causes the airplane to pitch down significantly after about 5 seconds - there is clue in that detail for me to figure out.

Also, the tracking is inop right now. "Feels" like there is or may be one overall issue that is causing the vacuum to not seal somewhere or some other similar issue.

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Can you trim out the down pitch with trim wheel?  Will it then hold level flight?  What does the panel sight gauge show for a deflection?  Are the two horizontal sight gauge lines deflected a lot?

[211º]

Unfortunately the horizontal sight gauge was removed and I have a blank in its place. Kevin stated that sometimes Owner's didn't want to opt for the $220 replacement cost and they simply blanked it out. That would provide additional info though.

Next time I fly I'll try to trim it out, but I think it'll take a ton of back trim. We'll see.

Thinking about doing a flight plan to Tulsa and having it fixed there. It'd sure be nice to have it back operational.

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[Seth]

11 hours ago, Guitarmaster said:

Talk to Jerry or Kevin.  Tell them what you have currently and what you want to do.  They will tell you what you need to 'Trak' down.  After you do, send it to them for overhaul.  

Mine needed a BI805 valve and a AccuTrak computer.  I found the BI805 on eBay and Brittain has computers.  

I don't have it installed yet, but the parts were ~$1300 overhauled and ready for install.  Probably another $1500 for the install.  IT's pretty straight-forward if you are handy, but the computer needs to be wired in by an avionics tech (or maybe hanger elves if they know avionics.)

The biggest issue to the install is finding room behind the panel for the computer.  It is nearly a foot deep, so in our airplanes it can be a trick.

You have two choices when it comes to Brittain.  You can wait on their list or you can be aggressive about tracking down parts.  Start to finish, it took me about four months to find everything.  Now for the install.....

I would have moved forward and done this . . . But the post was from 2009 and in my former Mooney.  I looked into installing an auto pilot, GPS, Speed mods, Paint, and an engine monitor. I ended up selling the aircraft and purchasing my Missile for a similar cost differential, except I can sell this aircraft in the future whereas an F with and additional $60k in it of upgrades will still fetch top F pricing.  And the Missile climbs better than the ovation and is 30-40 knots faster than the F.

I suggested to still find a Britain to the current owner.

Take care,

-Seth

 

[Browncbr1]

According to the install manual, the control box goes 2" behind firewall on left or right side depending on model. Mine is a 67 F so it went on the right side.  I don't recall seeing any drawings showing it in the tail cone.  I don't see any functional difference, but I'm just going on what the manual says.  It's possible that many were installed in the tail for simplicity sake irrespective of drawings.  If I were at home now, I would have a look at the manual and post here.  

Regarding the pitch, Jerry says the small box below the larger computer box has a diaphragm in it that can be stretched or worn out, especially if alt hold is left on and overridden to descend.   You should have two small plastic reducers on the two large lines going to the elevator servos.  Make sure they are there and no leaks there, at fittings, or at servos.    You should be able to run the engine on the ground and turn on the alt hold and shit down....  Then go to your servo cables and see if they become loose.  

[N601RX]

Depending on the year and model there were 4 approved mounting places.  Two in the tail and on either side just behind the firewall.

[211º]

Interesting. I have the plans that are for my serial number and the gyro is shown of the pilot's side aft of the firewall. But... I think that it is the gyro in the tail section.

I'll take a look tomorrow at the small box as well as the lines to the elevator servos. I think I'll also look under the cowl to see what's what.

Think I'll google Brittain servo videos too. Thanks for the tips.

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[RLCarter]

At one point my E had the 3 axis Brittian in it (before me), not sure what all has been removed other than the unit in the panel. The PC doesn't work but it all seems to be there along with several other components that are disconnected. All the hoses and servo boots are still supple and seem to be in great shape. Was going to start trouble shooting and figure out what all I'll need to get the 3 axis back. Any install diagrams, parts list, or any info for that matter would be greatly appreciated 

[211º]

RLC, I've attached installation notes and plans from Cecelia at Brittain.  If I recall correctly, when you are taxiing next time, push one rudder hard and if the control wheel moves the other way, I think that is a good indication that the PC is working (at least on some level).  I'd like to hear about your lessons learned. 

Ultimately, the engineer in me would like to know how this thing really works - it seems like a brutally simple, but effective solution... and that is one of the things driving me to fix it rather than drop $$$ on a new fully electronic system. (in other words, it is more fun work work on the engine of a 68 Chevy pickup rather than a 2015 Chevy 2500 - simple machinery versus serious electronics)

I'll share things as I move along.

IM 11971 Rev. -, Model LSA-2.pdf

[N601RX]

The turn cordinator has a valve attached to the back of it that turns as the turn cordinator moves.  In the center position it directs half of the suction to the servo in the right wing and half to the left wing. As the turn cordinator moves it directs less to one side and more to the other depending on the direction of the turn. Therefore it is very important that neither side have any leaks.  The easiest way to troubleshoot this is to get a small hand vac pump for harbor freight or auto parts store.  Disconnect the left side from the turn cordinator and connect the hose that runs out to the wing to the hand pump.  Verify that by using the hand pump you can deflect the aileron all the way in one direction and that it doesn't leak down or it at least takes several minutes to leak down Then do the same for the left side.  In addition to the servos in the wing there is also a set in the tail that are plumbed up in parallel

If it is based on the gyro in the tail it still basically works the same but you will also need to be sure the 2 hoses that run back up to the trim knob doesn't leak.

[211º]

Thanks much 1RX for the working description.

I'll head over to Harbor Freight this weekend and give it a go down at the hangar.

 

[SoMooney]

Hey everyone, I acquired a Accutrak (I not II) and a BI-805 valve. My pc works great as I just had the TC-100 OH'd by Brittain. My question is, I want to have it all installed to track a GPS and a NAV. I dont completely understand how this works. Does it get some sort of standardized signal from the NAV or from the CDI? Like a +/- 5V depending on how off the track you are? I have an Apollo GX55. Will i need some other box to track the GPS or does it pull from the CDI which is linked to the GPS already. To be clear, I have one CDI that I toggle back and forth from NAV to GPS. Thanks!

[Yetti]

The accutrack II has 2 left and 2 right signal wires.  They are selected by the source switch on the Accutrack II.  They connect to the left and right pins on the CDI. pins 16 and 17 on the KI 209 There are also up and down pins.   All the pin out diagrams are via google on the interweb.