GFC500 Update

[Greg_D]

7 hours ago, Bob - S50 said:

We are replacing a KFC200.  We plan to keep the switch as long as it works.

I don't think the GFC has CWS.  I can live with that.  To be honest, the only times I've ever used it was because either I needed to maneuver quickly due to traffic or because the KFC was moving the plane so slowly that it was going to grossly overshoot the course and I could fix it quicker by hand.  With the GFC, if I need to maneuver quickly for traffic I'll just turn it off and then re-engage when I'm done.  With GNSS, I shouldn't need to fix overshoots.

I use the CWS button as part of the missed approach procedure.  There is no TO/GA button on my KFC150 system.  I read in another post that there will be a TO/GA button with the GFC500 system.  Is that something additional that is added in the install kit or do they expect you to already have one?

[Bob - S50]

16 hours ago, Greg_D said:

I use the CWS button as part of the missed approach procedure.  There is no TO/GA button on my KFC150 system.  I read in another post that there will be a TO/GA button with the GFC500 system.  Is that something additional that is added in the install kit or do they expect you to already have one?

All you have to do is buy and install the button.  The TO/GA smarts exists in the autopilot.  After the FAF for an ILS/LPV approach, or upon leveling at the MDA for VOR/LOC approach, set the missed approach altitude (not the minimums but the altitude to climb to on the missed approach).  If the missed approach tells you to fly a heading, pre-set the heading bug too.  At DA or the MAP,  push the power up (cowl flaps, mixture, prop, throttle) and push the GA button.  The flight director (FD) will (if I remember correctly) command a pre-determined pitch attitude and wings level.  If the AP is engaged it will follow the FD.  Positive rate, gear up, flaps up.  Depending on the missed approach instructions, at a safe altitude select either HDG or NAV and the GFC will fly the missed approach for you.

Pretty nice for the cost of a button huh?

[Jerry 5TJ]

The GA button on the later King Autopilots such as a KFC225 puts the AP into roll mode with a fixed pitch up angle. It takes several keystrokes but a coupled missed approach can be flown from just after the point when the pilot keys the MA button.  The plane will climb to the selected altitude, fly to the MA and enter the hold under autopilot control.  Having just gone missed, the pilot can ponder what to do next without the tedium of hand flying.   

The GFC500/600 holds out the promise to fly a fully coupled MA procedure.   Just add power and monitor the go-around.  The pilot still has to decide what to do next.  

[khedrei]

Have the people that have lent Garmin their airplanes heard any news? So much for end of 2018 for the M model.... Q1 for the K...  I guess the shutdown might be playing a part in the certification. 

[Bob - S50]

12 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

The GA button on the later King Autopilots such as a KFC225 puts the AP into roll mode with a fixed pitch up angle. It takes several keystrokes but a coupled missed approach can be flown from just after the point when the pilot keys the MA button.  The plane will climb to the selected altitude, fly to the MA and enter the hold under autopilot control.  Having just gone missed, the pilot can ponder what to do next without the tedium of hand flying.   

The GFC500/600 holds out the promise to fly a fully coupled MA procedure.   Just add power and monitor the go-around.  The pilot still has to decide what to do next.  

And I should have mentioned that with the GFC you will probably want to do a little more button pushing too.  Besides selecting HDG or NAV you will also probably want to select IAS and use the wheel to set your desired climb speed.

[gsxrpilot]

I have a KFC150 with altitude pre-select. Once the autopilot has captured the glide slope, I set the altitude for the MAP in the preselect along with the vertical speed. I arm it, but just don't hit the VS button. At the same time, select Direct to the MAP in the Avidyne, but just don't acknowledge the command with the final Enter. 

The autopilot will continue to fly the approach, but if I need to go missed... it only takes applying full power, cleaning up the airplane, push the VS button on the pre-select and the Enter button on the Avidyne and the autopilot will climb the airplane and take us to the MAP and fly the hold. 

It's not a GA button, but it's only two button pushes and the autopilot is back flying the Missed.

[kortopates]

Good habits with setting up the altitude for the missed.
But why setting up for the direct to the MAP? We still have to fly to Missed approach point before commencing the missed approach to the missed approach fix - which is rarely direct anyway. The TERPS obstacle protection is lost if we turn before getting to the missed also. Soon as we do get to the missed approach point, then simply activate the missed (unsuspend) the GPS then sequences us through the missed approach procedure leg by leg.
There are some rare procedures too where it may be necessary to descend on the missed because of max crossing altitude restrictions. (One in my neighborhood has caused many pilot deviations).

One nice feature of the current GTNs is that these IFR altitudes are in the GTN and displayed on the G500 to use.


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[khedrei]

You dont HAVE to fly to the missed approach point before deciding to go missed. But if you dont have the field, it's your best chance of getting it. 

[kortopates]

You dont HAVE to fly to the missed approach point before deciding to go missed. But if you dont have the field, it's your best chance of getting it. 

You can decide to go missed anytime before and start climbing if there are no altitude restrictions, but you can not start navigating to the missed until you get to the missed approach point and follow it as published or alternate instructions you were given when cleared or by tower - or - get cleared to do so early.
Turning off early can not only expose you to a CFIT but also get you deviated for a loss of IFR separation.



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[khedrei]

All correct. Wasnt sure what the above post was getting to. Misunderstood.

[201Mooniac]

They must be getting close as the flight manual supplement for the M20M/M20R/M20S is now available on Garmin's site:

https://support.garmin.com/support/manuals/manuals.htm?partNo=GFC-500AP-00&language=en&country=US

[MIm20c]

Looks like they’re getting the paperwork in order. Flight testing until the 10th of January and pushing paperwork through on the 18th.  Certified this month?

[jamesm]

except they are missing the short bodies (M20 A,B,C,D,E ) from the list  :-( 

[LANCECASPER]

48 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

Looks like they’re getting the paperwork in order. Flight testing until the 10th of January and pushing paperwork through on the 18th.  Certified this month?

It's already signed off by the FAA. I would guess they just need to get the kits made up so they can sell them to installers.

[aviatoreb]

33 minutes ago, jamesm said:

except they are missing the short bodies (M20 A,B,C,D,E ) from the list  :-( 

I don’t see mid bodies f,j,k either.

[bradp]

3 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

I don’t see mid bodies f,j,k either.

I believe the short bodies are still not on the list. I am wondering what happened to the mod bodies.  Wasn’t there a Mooney spacer who’s plane was in on the certification?

[Niko182]

1 hour ago, bradp said:

I believe the short bodies are still not on the list. I am wondering what happened to the mod bodies.  Wasn’t there a Mooney spacer who’s plane was in on the certification?

@81X

[jamesm]

13 hours ago, bradp said:

I don’t see mid bodies f,j,k either.

I believe they are next couple of waves  certifications ......

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/604257#additional

They told me it's going be well over a year before they get  to short bodies

We are certainly planning on approving the models, they just aren’t on our 12-month outlook.  <--- regarding  M20C model from Garmin correspondence.

Not sure what drives the decisions at Garmin but I doesn't appear to numbers  of a particular  model or particular TC (type certificate).  Between  the M20C,E ,F and J models I would think that  cover probably 70% to 80% of  fleet ever produced by Mooney.

[hypertech]

That's great news.  Now, if only they could get rid of the FIKI limitation, I could buy one.

[aviatoreb]

16 minutes ago, jamesm said:

I believe they are next couple of waves  certifications ......

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/604257#additional

They told me it's going be well over a year before they get  to short bodies

We are certainly planning on approving the models, they just aren’t on our 12-month outlook.  <--- regarding  M20C model from Garmin correspondence.

Not sure what drives the decisions at Garmin but I doesn't appear to numbers  of a particular  model or particular TC (type certificate).  Between  the M20C,E ,F and J models I would think that  cover probably 70% to 80% of  fleet ever produced by Mooney.

...and k right?

[jamesm]

I can only guess it is to reduce their liability.

[wcb]

They emailed me back today saying the J and K are next.  I still do not know why it is NOT all Mid bodies F, G, J, K.  The F and G are then to follow etc..  I do not think they actually know that the F - J are basically the same with minor aerodynamic changes and the K is the basically the same with more power and turbo etc...

[jamesm]

3 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

...and k right?

Sure of course.

I was having a ME  ME ME moment for my C model.  my apologies

Everyone need's their special 'K'  when they are fly'n high  and  fast when it is hot and over high mountainous  terrain  .

:-)

 

[aviatoreb]

37 minutes ago, jamesm said:

Sure of course.

I was having a ME  ME ME moment for my C model.  my apologies

Everyone need's their special 'K'  when they are fly'n high  and  fast when it is hot and over high mountainous  terrain  .

:-)

 

Special k!  Like cereal.

[LANCECASPER]

What I don't understand is why Garmin "borrowed" an M model to certify the GFC500 when Garmin owns a legacy Ovation (pre-G1000). Why didn't they just install the GFC500 in their own Ovation?

Maybe they didn't want to lose ILS capability if the GPS signal was lost, or maybe they didn't want to install a G5 or two into an already crowded panel.