Avidyne or Garmin 530

[TWinter]

For those that have made the swap... How's it going. I have a 530w in the Comanche. I have the GTN750 in my E and have gotten very comfortable with the touch screen. Not so comfortable with the 530, but in time I'm sure I'll get better with it, but I'm considering two separate options.

1. Keep the 530 and add FS210 to transfer flight plans. Will still have to use manual dial radio controls (my shop quoted me $1000 for FS210). I have the FS210 in my E and like it.

2. Opt two is replace the 530 with a Avidyne 540 or 550 and get the same size screen as the 530, but will have the touch screen and BT feature to transfer a flight plan via IPad.

Doing a 750 in the new plane is out of the question for now $$. Thought about GTN650, but like the BT feature and to get BT for the 650 I'd have to still spend $1000 for the FS210.

Plane already had ADSB with Garmin 345 transponder. I assume Avidyne will be friendly and talk to the other Garmin equipment.

Those that have gone Avidyne...how goes it so far. Is it really just a plug-n-play to swap? Do you like it and is the screen easily accessible with respect to the touch screen. I know in turbulent air even with the GTN750 I have to stable my hand on the bezel to change frequency or xponder codes.   

or...any other ideas or suggestions? I'm open minded and I know you guys/gals like spending the other MSers money.

 

-Tom

 

[KLRDMD]

1 hour ago, TWinter said:

Those that have gone Avidyne...how goes it so far. Is it really just a plug-n-play to swap? Do like it and is the screen easily accessible with respect to the touch screen. I know in turbulent air even with the GTN750 I have to stable my hand on the bezel to change frequency or xponder codes.   

The Avidynes are amazing and offer so much more than the Garmin boxes do today.

[gsxrpilot]

Yes, it's really plug and play. It took me 15 minutes to swap my 530W out for the IFD540. That was 10 minutest to read the instructions and 5 minutes to do the job. 

[Tommy]

It's a great unit and right now it offers quite a lot more than equivalent GTN for about the same price (plus the trade-in + headset promotion now). Love the hybrid touch screen + buttons lay out. I tried to use the touch screen once in turbulence and it's down right impossible. Luckily the buttons and knobs saved the day. Am sure will be thrilled by IFD100 once I get Wifi / BT to work.

The interface is vey intuitive and the predictive logic works pretty well when flight planning. Took me 1 minute to plan a SID departure -> en route -> NDB approach with hold -> missed when it took almost 7 minutes for a pilot to do the same using a FMS in a Porline Kingair that he has almost 500 hours experience with (granted it was an unfamiliar route to him). But I only have 10 hours experience with IFD 440. 

Just make sure you get a dealer / shop that has good connection to the company.

[xcrmckenna]

I switched from the 430 to 440 and couldn’t be happier. I’m sure you’ll be happy if you switch the 530 for a 540. And when you decide who switch that out with the 750 look me up and I’ll buy your 540:)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bartman]

I made the 430 to 440 change and have one complaint, but not necessarily about the unit itself.  I had some radio noise before the change, but the 440 seems to be more sensitive and ignition noise is much louder than before.  We replaced all RG58 with RG400 for both radios and I now have a new CI196 blade antenna that replaced the 40 year old Seven antenna.  My reception distance is reduced significantly, but on right mag only it is crystal clear. On right mag only the reception distance is as expected and transmission distance as reported by ATC is strong.  After sending the dual mag out for service no significant change, but it was due for service anyway.  Ordered a new ignition harness to replace the existing that looks like it is 40 years old too, and should be here this week. 

So consider this a PIREP that if you have ignition noise it may be worse with the 440 and require some additional maintenance.  Mine definitely is but expect that to be resolved with the new ignition harness. 

[Mooney in Oz]

Hi there Tom.  

If you have an iPad, download and install the free IFD app from the App Store so you can try it out for yourself.  The app is very realistic and displays an excellent presentation of what the unit/s will do.  In the iPad Settings you can change between the 550, 540 and 440.  It also has a Jepp link where you can download the latest terrain and nav data cycle. The app is so precise that a mate of mine discovered a serious issue with one of the Jepp approaches here in Australia on the app, which replicated exactly the same issue in the aircraft.  Jepp and Airservices Australia have been informed and are onto it.

I don't think a GNS 530 app exists for comparison.

[Piloto]

13 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Yes, it's really plug and play. It took me 15 minutes to swap my 530W out for the IFD540. That was 10 minutest to read the instructions and 5 minutes to do the job. 

You are one of the few that read instructions, what's wrong with you?

José

[Awful_Charlie]

22 hours ago, Piloto said:

You are one of the few that read instructions, what's wrong with you?

José

What he really means:
10 minutes to read the instructions, broken down as
- waiting 5 minutes while a woman reads them
- 5 minutes nodding and going "mm - ok" while she reads the pertinent bits back

[1964-M20E]

Go Avidyne

 

[INA201]

What’s the price difference in doing the 540 vs 750 with installation etc.?

[EricJ]

33 minutes ago, INA201 said:

What’s the price difference in doing the 540 vs 750 with installation etc.?

Not counting the installation at all the box price on the Avidyne is much better considering the features.   Many of the features that are expensive options on the GTN are standard on the IFD5xx.   I played with the simulator software for both the GTN and the IFD and the IFD seemed much more intuitive to me.   Between that and the price difference it seemed like a no brainer to me.   I'm still learning to fly with the IFD as I've not had it for very long, but so far I'm liking it a lot.

This is the box price comparison according to Avidyne.   If you're replacing a 530 the installation is zero for the Avidyne and significant for the GTN.  My avionics shop indicated that some wiring might be appropriate to get to all of the features (probably additional com busses) for a slide-in replacement of a 530 with an IFD.  A new gps install for either would be about the same for each, I'd guess.

https://www.avidyne.com/products/ifd/ifd540-value-compare.html

[TWinter]

The plus to the Avidyne route for me is the that he will take trade of the 530 in toward the GTN 750 or Avidyne ( I have not run the Avidyne option by him yet). I think he quoted me $15,000 for a full install  750 and two G5s in the center (taking the 530 toward trade). Also on my need list is a good engine monitor. I thought my shop was high on the JPI 730 w/ fuel flow $10000, +/-..  I love my JPI and have had a 830 and now  the 9 series as primary. My only problem is since I've had the JPI my planes have been eating probes like candy. At $125 a probe that gets pricey. I can honestly say over the last 4 or 5 yrs since using JPI I've been through 6 probes. I have two out now, an EGT and CHT. JPI replaced two of the six since they failed during warranty. I love my JPI and think it a wonderful product. Just not sure why I'm eating up probes like candy. Not sure what monitor I will go with either..

 

-Tom

Just need to get the priorities right. Cash flow is low since I just sent the check in to Uncle Sam for sales tax and insurance etc...

[KLRDMD]

3 hours ago, TWinter said:

The plus to the Avidyne route for me is the that he will take trade of the 530 in toward the GTN 750 or Avidyne ( I have not run the Avidyne option by him yet). I think he quoted me $15,000 for a full install  750 and two G5s in the center (taking the 530 toward trade). Also on my need list is a good engine monitor. I thought my shop was high on the JPI 730 w/ fuel flow $10000, +/-..  I love my JPI and have had a 830 and now  the 9 series as primary. My only problem is since I've had the JPI my planes have been eating probes like candy. At $125 a probe that gets pricey. I can honestly say over the last 4 or 5 yrs since using JPI I've been through 6 probes. I have two out now, an EGT and CHT. JPI replaced two of the six since they failed during warranty. I love my JPI and think it a wonderful product. Just not sure why I'm eating up probes like candy. Not sure what monitor I will go with either..

Chase can get you probes. I just got one yesterday and paid much less than that.

[gsxrpilot]

@TWinter if budget is the concern here... and it certainly was for me. I'd break this job up. I know that might sound counter intuitive, but it just might make a difference.

If you have a GNS 530W in the plane right now, then the IFD540 is a no-brainer. I'd be shopping for the best trade-in offer or trying to sell it out right. I traded my GNS 530W to Chase at AvionicsSource and got the IFD540 in return. Chase sent me the Avidyne and let me do the swap and then send him the 530W after. It took me 15 minutes to do the swap and I was out flying. Now that that's done... go talk to someone about installing the G5's as a package. If it requires some wires be run to the IFD540, so be it. But as far as you're concerned the Avidyne is in and fully functional.

You might build the upgrade from the JPI 830 to the 900 into the deal, but I'd price it separately as well. It can be done by an A&P and doesn't require an Avionics shop. Often the A&P shop rate is less than the Avionics shop rate. Just make sure to get someone who's done it before.

Anyway, my $0.02.

[TWinter]

13 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

@TWinter if budget is the concern here... and it certainly was for me. I'd break this job up. I know that might sound counter intuitive, but it just might make a difference.

If you have a GNS 530W in the plane right now, then the IFD540 is a no-brainer. I'd be shopping for the best trade-in offer or trying to sell it out right. I traded my GNS 530W to Chase at AvionicsSource and got the IFD540 in return. Chase sent me the Avidyne and let me do the swap and then send him the 530W after. It took me 15 minutes to do the swap and I was out flying. Now that that's done... go talk to someone about installing the G5's as a package. If it requires some wires be run to the IFD540, so be it. But as far as you're concerned the Avidyne is in and fully functional.

You might build the upgrade from the JPI 830 to the 900 into the deal, but I'd price it separately as well. It can be done by an A&P and doesn't require an Avionics shop. Often the A&P shop rate is less than the Avionics shop rate. Just make sure to get someone who's done it before.

Anyway, my $0.02.

I agree 100%. I talked to my shop yesterday about the 540 and they were not very excited about the IFD540. Said they have not had much luck with them and have had the few they have done come back with issues. Their primary is Garmin and I think the profit margin for them is better on Garmin. I do agree the IFD540 is a big bang for the buck and I plan to reach out to Chase and see what is being offered now. I may have to have a different shop do the swap and make the entry, but I am leaning strongly toward the 540. The Comanche has no engine monitor other than the factory EGT gauge. I have the JPI930 in my Mooney and really like it, but right now the money is not there for it. Don't plan to go that route with the twin, but would like something. They quoted $9200 for a JPI 760 w/ FF. Kind of high I thought. I think I'll probably go with the 540 and wait on the engine monitor until some specials come out or I can shop some other shops.

-Tom

[EricJ]

44 minutes ago, TWinter said:

I agree 100%. I talked to my shop yesterday about the 540 and they were not very excited about the IFD540. Said they have not had much luck with them and have had the few they have done come back with issues. Their primary is Garmin and I think the profit margin for them is better on Garmin. 

I shopped around with a few installers before mine was done, and I was surprised how badly some people were willing to essentially be shills for Garmin.   One was blatantly a Garmin-only shop (I didn't know that when I called) and was certain that Avidyne would be bankrupt in a few months and I'd be left with worthless, unsupported equipment if I went that way.   Seriously, that was the story they gave me.   It was a small part of me deciding to go with the IFD; if some of the Garmin shops have that little integrity I wouldn't ever know whether to trust them or not.

The shop I went with was impartial and said they'd install either no problem.

 

[gsxrpilot]

12 hours ago, TWinter said:

I plan to reach out to Chase and see what is being offered now. I may have to have a different shop do the swap and make the entry, but I am leaning strongly toward the 540.

According to Avidyne, you don't need a shop to do the swap and make an entry in your log book. They supply the wording for the log entry as owner maintenance, in the install guide. Some disagree with this. But this is what I did. I did the swap myself and made the logbook entry and signed it myself.

[gsxrpilot]

10 hours ago, David Herman said:

Sorry for the hijacking. A few Questions:

• if I swapped our GNS-430W for an IFD-440 ... it’s a totally slide in replacement ... yes?
  • Yes. It's a 5 minute job and make the log entry yourself. Avidyne includes a very complete and easy to follow guide for the swap.
• However, what would be the usefulness of our FS-210?
• Is it correct the IFD-440 has Bluetooth capabilities  internally ... ?
  • Yes... if enabled. Make sure the IFD-440 you get has the Bluetooth enabled. 
• so could I still transfer flight plans back and forth from Foreflight? 
  • Yes, it works fine. My iPad connects to the wifi signal from the IFD and adds a button to Send or Receive the flight plan.
• If so then I would have be “disconnected” from the FS-210 to stay connected  to the IFD-440 ... and would lose the AHRS reference from the FS-210 on Foreflight ... correct? 
• In conclusion, then would our FS-210 serve no function and could be removed?
• That would free up one of the airinc outputs correct? ... are they the same on the IFD? Four? (mine are all used , I think?  one to 406ELT, one to EDM-930, one to G5, one to FS-210. Can those be split? 
• What do you use to get ADS-B IN displayed on the IFD-440?

I'm sorry I can't speak to the FS-210. I've never  had one or used one.

[EricJ]

17 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

According to Avidyne, you don't need a shop to do the swap and make an entry in your log book. They supply the wording for the log entry as owner maintenance, in the install guide. Some disagree with this. But this is what I did. I did the swap myself and made the logbook entry and signed it myself.

That's correct.   It falls under FAR 43 Appendix A, Paragraph C.31 (Preventive maintenance, the kind that owner's can do).

(31) Removing and replacing self-contained, front instrument panel-mounted navigation and communication devices that employ tray-mounted connectors that connect the unit when the unit is installed into the instrument panel, (excluding automatic flight control systems, transponders, and microwave frequency distance measuring equipment (DME)). The approved unit must be designed to be readily and repeatedly removed and replaced, and pertinent instructions must be provided. Prior to the unit's intended use, and operational check must be performed in accordance with the applicable sections of part 91 of this chapter.

This is what allows you to swap out nav/coms, e.g., replace a shakey KX-170 with a TKM170C, etc.   It's owner maintenance with a logbook entry.   Since no change to the tray or any wiring is required, it is strictly a slide-in box swap, it can be done under this FAR.    Although the shop installation manuals for a new install are not available to the public on Avidyne's website, the "Exchange Guide" for the slide-in swap-out of a Garmin is available:

https://www.avidyne.com/files/downloads/600-00316-000.pdf

Section 5.5 has the wording that can go in the logbooks, and Appendix A shows the regulatory basis for owner installation (pretty much what I quoted above).

I think it's cool that people can do this, and kudos to Avidyne for taking this route and saving a lot of people a ton of money.

[Piloto]

I had a friend of mine having problems with his new IFD540 installation. We swapped my GNS 530W for his IFD540 on my M20J. Right way we found that it works perfectly interfacing with the autopilot and the ATD-300 TCAS. The IFD540 is 100% compatible with GNS 530W mounting tray. Operating it was intuitive without reading the instructions.

José

[TWinter]

Sounds great..Just waiting to hear back from Chase. If I don't hear back I'll call Monday. Thanks MS.

 

-Tom

[M016576]

On 6/30/2018 at 8:19 AM, David Herman said:

Sorry for the hijacking. A few Questions:

• if I swapped our GNS-430W for an IFD-440 ... it’s a totally slide in replacement ... yes?
• However, what would be the usefulness of our FS-210?
• Is it correct the IFD-440 has Bluetooth capabilities  internally ... ?
• so could I still transfer flight plans back and forth from Foreflight? 
• If so then I would have be “disconnected” from the FS-210 to stay connected  to the IFD-440 ... and would lose the AHRS reference from the FS-210 on Foreflight ... correct? 
• In conclusion, then would our FS-210 serve no function and could be removed?
• That would free up one of the airinc outputs correct? ... are they the same on the IFD? Four? (mine are all used , I think?  one to 406ELT, one to EDM-930, one to G5, one to FS-210. Can those be split? 
• What do you use to get ADS-B IN displayed on the IFD-440?

1. Yes

2. The FS-210 would be useless

3. Yes (the 540 and 550 come with this feature as a default- make sure you ask for it on the 440)

4. Yes both to and from the IFD

5. Yes

6. Yes

7. Yes, not sure about splitting arinc inputs though

8. Skytrax-100 (avidyne’s adsb-in box)

[kellym]

Using Part 43 Appendix A preventive maintenance for swapping a non-identical piece of electronics is a little bit of a stretch. Yes, you can get away with it, AFAIK. On the other hand,

if you are conservative and like to dot Is and cross Ts, I would suggest having a friendly A&P sign it off as a minor modification. The intent of the reg was to allow you to take your unit to shop for bench checking, or to swap data cards, as was common on units like the Northstar M3.

As long as you are confident about following the manual to ensure the configuration and other setup items are correct...go for it. Or get an electronics saavy homebuilder to guide you for the swap, then a friendly A&P should be happy to sign for a cup of coffee.

Not trying to dissuade anyone, just want to see your new box perform perfectly on first try, so you will be happy, and no IA or other agent of the gubmint ever gives you any hassle.