Any experience landing on a dirt strip in a Bravo?

[JohnB]

I'm thinking of doing some charity flying work that would require me to land on dirt strips that are supposedly well maintained. I know friends with other models have no problems with landing on dirt strips (I know Paul K takes his K down no problems).

My question does anyone have experience, good or bad, landing on a dirt strip in a Bravo?

My fear is if i take my Trillian (my M20M) down, I think our prop clearance is a bit lower and if there was a prop strike from a divet or not exactly perfect soft field landing on a dirt field, id be way far away from help. But am curious what other Bravo owners think, is this a non problem or no do for us?

 

John

[carusoam]

For landing with the LB....  How are your soft field techniques?

Is it going to be a short field as well?

AOAi and/or Don Kaye's speed guidance are good...

Taxiing and Take-off and run-up, sucking stones into the prop.  Get some guidance on how to avoid...

Best regards,

-a-

[carqwik]

My insurance policy prohibits landing unimproved strips with the Bravo...

[DVA]

My insurance policy prohibits landing unimproved strips with the Bravo...

This is the first time I've ever heard of a restriction like that from an insurance company on a particular aircraft. May I ask what insurance carrier?

[gsxrpilot]

40 minutes ago, DVA said:

This is the first time I've ever heard of a restriction like that from an insurance company on a particular aircraft. May I ask what insurance carrier?

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. The last two policies I've had from two different carriers said the same thing. "The airplane is primarily used on hard surface runways".  That certainly allows for the occasional grass or dirt strip.

[jetdriven]

I called Falcon about our policy last year about this. He said as long as it was an airport listed on the sectional chart it was covered but if we bend anything and make a claim, they will drop us and the other insurers will know this and our rates will be unbelievably higher. So it's a risk, still. I take to grass occasionally but only good smooth long ones. 

[JohnB]

Thanks for the responses, so looks like no one has done this, in a M model. I'm not going to be the first! I'm going to check my insurance policy now and look into some 172 rentals if they would allow packed dirt landing. The guys that are doing it for Good Samaritans are Bonanza drivers, and they said it's no problem, but I think even though our planes have similar weights, our prop clearance might be lower. Thanks all!

[jetdriven]

The Oleo strut airplanes tolerate unimproved surfaces quite a bit better than our donut disc landing gear.  Much more travel. 

[FoxMike]

I have landed on dirt and grass a few times but do not recommend it.  The Bravo is heavy relative to the earlier models but the undercarriage is the same.  You can do it but risk of damage is higher.  I do not fly into OSH any more as I do not like to taxi in the grass.  The conditions at OSH very a lot year to year.   I prefer to use paved strips.

[Bravoman]

I don't think I'd risk it in the Bravo, kind of like taking a Porsche 911 four wheeling.

[JohnB]

Thanks everyone, you've talked me out of even thinking about landing on dirt in a non emergency. Thanks!

 

8 hours ago, FoxMike said:

I have landed on dirt and grass a few times but do not recommend it.  The Bravo is heavy relative to the earlier models but the undercarriage is the same.  You can do it but risk of damage is higher.  I do not fly into OSH any more as I do not like to taxi in the grass.  The conditions at OSH very a lot year to year.   I prefer to use paved strips.

Ut oh.. grass tough too? Havent done this, but plan on it at OSH this year. What my plan was is not to land on grass but taxi with elevator back pressure not at full fuel. But you're right, if the grass is wet, that might be a problem too.. Hmmm

[LANCECASPER]

I agree, we don't have a lot of prop clearance, also the clearance on those main gear doors is not much. I'd feel more comfortable on a well maintained dirt strip than grass, but I don't plan on either.

This discussion reminds me of a trip in 1997 to Oshkosh. I flew M20M N9153Z from Texas to Minnesota with a couple of older flying buddies and picked up my brother. We got up early Saturday morning for the short flight from MN to WI and I decided to land in Fon Du Lac since I didn't want to be part of the Oshkosh airshow. They marshaled us out to park in the grass off of a distant taxiway. Here's a picture of us just after we tied down before we caught the shuttle bus to Oshkosh with no other airplanes around us. (I'm the skinny 34 year old kid on the left)

 

As the bus was taking us out to the airplane late Saturday afternoon for the return flight to Minnesota and we got closer I saw a lot of people up ahead and airplane parts strewn everywhere. An airplane two planes down from me had forgot to untie the tail when he wanted to leave and kept adding power until the tiedown finally gave way at full power. He took out five airplanes (one on each side and three across from him - Vtail bonanza, C182 and three Pipers), thankfully there was one in between me and him. i didn't get a scratch. 

 

That was my last experience even parking on grass . . lol

 

[Alain B]

Just now, LANCECASPER said:

I agree, we don't have a lot of prop clearance, also the clearance on those main gear doors is not much. I'd feel more comfortable on a well maintained dirt strip than grass, but I don't plan on either.

This discussion reminds me of a trip in 1997 to Oshkosh. I flew M20M N9153Z from Texas to Minnesota with a couple of older flying buddies and picked up my brother. We got up early Saturday morning and I decided to land in Fon Du Lac since I didn't want to be part of the Oshkosh airshow. They marshaled us out to part in the grass off of a distant taxiway. Here's a picture of us just after we tied down before we caught the shuttle bus to Oshkosh with no other airplanes around us. (I'm the skinny 34 year old kid on the left)

 

As the bus was taking us out to the airplane late Saturday afternoon for the return flight to Minnesota and we got closer I saw a lot of people up ahead and airplane parts strewn everywhere. An airplane two planes down from me had forgot to untie the tail when he wanted to leave and kept adding power until the tiedown finally gave way at full power. He took out five airplanes (one on each side and three across from him - Vtail bonanza, C182 and three Pipers), thankfully there was one in between me and him. i didn't get a scratch. 

 

That was my last experience even parking on grass . . lol

 

This guy should not be even allowed to drive a groceries cart . 

[jrwilson]

On ‎6‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 6:29 AM, carqwik said:

My insurance policy prohibits landing unimproved strips with the Bravo...

Mine too, it has been a consistent restriction from the 20C and 20K...

[gsxrpilot]

44 minutes ago, jrwilson said:

Mine too, it has been a consistent restriction from the 20C and 20K...

That's crazy! I'd be shopping for better insurance.

[jrwilson]

52 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

That's crazy! I'd be shopping for better insurance.

Well,as I have no need to land on dirt, it's not a concern. If you were paying for my insurance, I'd take your opinion under advisement.

[gsxrpilot]

18 minutes ago, jrwilson said:

Well,as I have no need to land on dirt, it's not a concern. If you were paying for my insurance, I'd take your opinion under advisement.

Does that clause save money on the premium? Maybe I should ask for it. I'm insured through Falcon/Starr for my 252 and I asked about the limitation last year and was told it didn't make any difference in cost. $1300 for $120K hull, no deductible.

[jrwilson]

I'm falcon too. $110 hull and $1000 premium, no deductible.  I'm not sure if it makes a difference, I didn't ask to add it.  

[gsxrpilot]

7 minutes ago, jrwilson said:

I'm falcon too. $110 hull and $1000 premium, no deductible.  I'm not sure if it makes a difference, I didn't ask to add it.  

Hmmmm... I didn't ask to add it either, it just never was listed as a restriction. It's about that time of year again. I'll ask.

Thanks

[Parker_Woodruff]

I have never seen an grass strip exclusion in an aviation insurance policy.  I have seen insurance applications that ask if you ever land on non-paved surfaces.

Broker for 4 years, underwriter for 2 years.

[jlunseth]

I have done between 20 and 30 in my K, I would have to go back and count.  I never had a problem with it.  The landings were all on different strips, and I found every one of them to be well maintained.  The dreaded gopher hole just didn't exist.  I always fly over first though, and I did reject one.  I recognized a patch of swamp grass in the middle.  

We have a program here called Fly Minnesota, where if you land at 135 of our 138 public airports they give you a leather jacket.  Quite a number are grass.  The first time I got together with another pilot and we rented a Skyhawk and did 14 in one day.  That was easy, so I did the rest in my own plane.  No problems.

[N350ka]

for what its worth i've taken my bravo into a few grass strips in ND and MN, its doable but I highly highly recommend ensuring the condition of the field and the length of the grass before giving it a shot. 

[Piloto]

MAKE SURE THE TIRES ARE FULLY INFLATED  BEFORE GOING INTO GRASS. Otherwise the nose may dig into the ground causing a prop strike. Carry minimum fuel. Have a donkey and ropes to tow your plane.

José

 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Piloto

[exM20K]

Does the M20M POH have grass t/o and landing distances?  I believe the M20TN has "Pending Data," which I interpret as "No!"

-dan

Edited June 15, 2018 by exM20K

[Steve Skinner]

I’ve had 2 experiences. One on grass and the other on a strip at a winery we visited.

We flew into a grass strip that was a regular training strip for local pilots. I saw it on the map and it was closer to our destination.

it was an ALA listed on my VFR chart. No issues landing.

However  on departure acceleration was very slow and caught me completely off guard.

at about 75% distance I realized that it was long grass that was keeping me below flying speed.

Maybe too late to stop so I pressed on and reefed the plane into ground effect before the end of the runway.

one for the memory bank.

i was angry at myself for not noticing the grass which was being mowed on the adjacent strip. I’d spent most of my flying on the black stuff so this was new to me. Having had my first landing on dirt at The Dig Tree which was completely uneventful.

 

2nd

I had been assured that people were using the strip regularly and that I should buzz the strip prior to landing to check for sheep.

As I approached between the tall trees the sheep were grazing away from the alleged strip.

i did a circuit and lost sight of the strip between the hills, trees and lack of an open area.

Finally lined up at short field speed and descended down between the trees.

As I touched down we bounced once, not due to speed but because of the quality of the strip and lack of suspension.

The next couple of 100 meters were pretty rough and taxiing was very slow.

The departure was equally tough.

Although it was a short strip I had to add power slowly to avoid rocking the prop so full power was reached somewhere down the strip.

Departed between the trees as planned.

Some beautiful wines consumed at a fantastic Homestead with lovely accommodation and no damage done to the aircraft.

I know other Mooney’s fly in here but I’m going to wait till my memory fades a bit till we retrace our trip