Positive and negatives from your flight training

[aajones5]

Hey everyone, I'm currently in the middle of my CFI training and I just wanted to hear from everyone about what you really liked and what you really disliked about any part of your flight training. I want to know generally what you guys struggled with and things you wish your CFI did better or didn't do at all. Also if you want to, if you could post your current total time and the ratings and licenses you hold. Thanks!

[201er]

I had a hard time with flight instructors for sure. Primarily because of their volatility. Instructors don't tend to stick around very long. For primary training you're bound to either hit a newb instructor and be his guinea pig to learn instructing on or a slightly more experienced one who might bail on you to join an airline once he met his hours. It's a pretty stupid situation.

Another issue I'd run into is personality conflict. Most instructors can't accept when they are wrong. But for me, I would lose trust in instructors who are certifiably wrong but won't admit it. They would lose their credibility in other ways if I knew they were wrong on some things that I could be certain of.

[Oscar Avalle]

Stay engaged and genuinely interested in the progress of your student. Be on time, patient and listen to your student. Don't try to impress him or her with your knowledge. They will notice if you are good fast.

 

[EricJ]

Communication is everything.   Being ambiguous makes it difficult for a student to figure out what you're trying to convey.    My most recent experience with this was in tail-wheel training learning wheel landings (on the main gear) where the instructor kept telling me to "hold it off as long as possible", which to me means keep bringing the nose up which results in a three-point, not a wheel landing.   It made it take longer and added some unnecessary frustration until I figured out what he meant, which wasn't what he was saying.

 

[carusoam]

+1 for Communication...

figure out what works for each student.  They are all individuals, no two will be alike...

Build the confidence that is deep inside the student.

Learn to be extra human.  You may have to deliver bad news, but there are good ways to do that task...

Be ready to deliver.  Know what is going to be covered, cover it, review it when finished.

Don't be afraid to spend a few extra minutes of your time.

Share your experience, your favorite apps, your favorite weather sites...

Don't forget to ask what the student thinks about your teaching skills.  What they like, or would rather see....

Know that when the student loses confidence, he may not come back, for a while.

 

I'd like to thank my CFIs and others for helping me build the confidence to fly. 

PP thoughts about what worked for me.  I'm not a CFI.

Best regards,

-a-

[Skates97]

1 hour ago, Oscar Avalle said:

Stay engaged and genuinely interested in the progress of your student. Be on time, patient and listen to your student. Don't try to impress him or her with your knowledge. They will notice if you are good fast.

 

I was very fortunate to have a great CFI. There was never a question in my mind if he cared about both me and my progress (two different things).

He allowed me to make mistakes, allowing me to proceed through the mistake so long as it didn't put us in danger, and reviewing with me later. Sometimes he would ask me about it afterwards, or let me get just far enough into the mistake before mentioning it, like the time when I was pulling out onto the runway for a return trip on a XC with full flaps still down. I had missed retracting them after landing which I normally did as soon as I was on the ground before braking. He let me taxi back, get everything set up, contact the tower for clearance, and roll across the hold short line without saying anything. It was only as I was lining up on center-line that I think his words were "So what flap setting do you use for take-off?" I immediately realized what I had missed... a valuable lesson learned.

[TheTurtle]

My first and only CFI was (is) great.  My only complaint which I still harass him about is he doesn't do enough ground type stuff.  Fortunately Im self motivated so it wasnt an issue for PPL but I could use some more quizing during my IR training.  Also he likes fiddling with my stuff when flying.  I have to tell him to keep his hands off my shit or he'll work radios, fiddle with my power settings etc.  No chance of him leaving for the airlines or anything, hes a full time CFI.  Im going to be working with him through my CFI rating and those are the 2 things I take away that I will do differently than him. 

Biggest positives is his relaxed style.  Never gets upset no matter how many times I bounced it off the runway or cant do a compass turn or yank it off the ground in high DA.  He also was big on stuff outside the pattern.  Real world flying.  We would go to tons of diffferent airports, have lunch etc.  I didnt think it was that big a deal until I hear stories of people that have never learned to pump gas and tie down a plane other than at home.  Find transient parking, talk to the gas guy on unicom etc etc. He's an awesome pilot and has become a friend outside of flying as well.  you may have seen videos of him. 

 

Edited May 26, 2017 by TheTurtle

[Yetti]

Start with knowing the student's learning style.  verbal, visual, tactile

[gsxrpilot]

I interviewed five CFI's and flew with three of them before I settled on one. And I used that one through the Private, Instrument, Mooney transition, and now working on the CPL.  I was looking for some very specific things. They wouldn't be applicable to everyone, but they were important for me. I was fully transparent with all of them about the fact that I was interviewing CFI's and paid each for their time.

1. Treat me like an adult and not like a school boy. Let me set my own pace and direct my own learning. Suggest, but don't assign homework. 
2. Ground school and the written exam are my responsibility, I just need you to show me how to fly the airplane. I wasn't interested in paying for 30 min or an hour of brief/debrief at every lesson.
3. In the airplane, I'm paying to do the flying, not to sit there while you show off your flying skills. A demonstration of a maneuver is reasonable, but repeatedly taking the controls every time I do something wrong, is not. And along with this line, please don't try to impress on me how difficult or dangerous flying is. Lots of people do it, it can't be all that difficult.
4. I will not be able to fly on a regular schedule, but will fly whenever I have time, money, the airplane is available, the CFI is available and the weather conditions are appropriate.
5. I might or might not finish or ever get the certificate. But that's on me. It's my time, and my money, and I'll waste it how I like.

This would likely not be the best approach for a young person trying to make a career of flying. But for a middle aged guy doing this as nothing more than a hobby, it worked for me and was a wonderful, and enjoyable experience all the way though. The CFI and I continue to be close friends and I hope to someday obtain my own CFI rating under his tutelage.

[thinwing]

You would not like a Maui Avaitors checkout gsx!

[gsxrpilot]

11 minutes ago, thinwing said:

You would not like a Maui Avaitors checkout gsx!

I don't understand. Do you mean a checkout for say rental purposes? I think that would be completely different. I'm talking about what I was looking for in a CFI to get me from zero to a private certificate.

[Alain B]

On 5/26/2017 at 3:01 PM, 201er said:

I had a hard time with flight instructors for sure. Primarily because of their volatility. Instructors don't tend to stick around very long. For primary training you're bound to either hit a newb instructor and be his guinea pig to learn instructing on or a slightly more experienced one who might bail on you to join an airline once he met his hours. It's a pretty stupid situation.

Another issue I'd run into is personality conflict. Most instructors can't accept when they are wrong. But for me, I would lose trust in instructors who are certifiably wrong but won't admit it. They would lose their credibility in other ways if I knew they were wrong on some things that I could be certain of.

I have the same issue with my GF instructor . One an occasion i flew back seat on one of my GF training flight after she got her PPL , i was asking myself what this guy was doing there . He is over 1500 hres , he is trying to make it to a regional job , they keep telling him to build more time . After i had made this flight , i knew why ! LOL 

[Danb]

I was totally clueless, I had a student at college and his dad was an instructor, lucky break he was great. I used him through my IFR and currently use his son some 35 yrs later.

Ive gone yearly for about 25 years to a 3-5 day program usually in September. Flight safety, Total currency, a few others. Now MAPA. for the last 7-8 years.

my worse and best instructors were at recurrent training center near Univ of Illinois. they tear you down then build you up by day 4 if you don't quit after the first day you'll make it, high pressure for sure.

 It's dependent on who you get for your instructor that week, they generally teach King Air type guys. I went to Doug Carmody in Beaufort SC a few times. A great Mooney instructor. He has dropped singles and also does heavier metal.

Basically my loyal local instructor when he was alive was the best, the centers are a crap shoot.

If your lucky enough to scope a great local CFI go with it.

 

[Oldguy]

1. Different students have different learning styles, and your teaching style may not match their learning style. Lose the ego and help them find the right instructor if you see this.
2. Have some syllabus or something to give the student a level of comfort you are not pulling something together an hour or so before they arrive. If they need to buy book or other material, the first time you meet with them before they become a student is the time to bring this up.
3. Keep your time commitments with students. Scheduling lessons back-to-back may sound great, but someone is getting...the short end of the stick when the previous lesson runs over. And don't stress the student whose lesson is running long by trying to rush them to get back to the airport, back to the FBO or wherever.

I was fortunate to have an instructor who was building time to move to the airlines and made it clear from the first meeting what his goal was. But he was preparing himself to be a professional pilot by being a professional instructor. When he got the inevitable job offer, he made sure he connected his students with other instructors who best fit their learning styles.

[Jerry 5TJ]

My primary and instrument instructor was a fellow named Chester.  He was an old guy--probably somewhat younger than I am now.....

Chester had a real skill -- he kept just enough tasks loaded on me that my learning was nearly maximized, I now believe. 

His ability to judge my learning steps and add on just enough to keep me reaching but not overloaded was a talent.  

It was also a gift of efficiency: He got me through the syllabus and signed off for my check ride in 39.4 hours.  I flew solo 0.8 to the field where the designated examiner OK'd my freshly inked log total of 40.2.  

Chester isn't with us any more, alas.  But I recall his ability to read his audience of one, and smile.  

Best luck with your CFI. 

 

[jlunseth]

I was lucky.  I had a great PPL instructor and an equally great CFII.  They were night and day.  The CFI was very patient with me, the CFII was a drill instructor, but that was why I picked him.  IFR procedures are the last place you want to be making any mistakes.  

I can't think of anything I disliked about my PPL experience, it was all demanding and enjoyable.  What I disliked about instrument training had nothing to do with my CFII.  It was some of the things we are forced to learn for the FAA that are completely meaningless and never used again, and some things that were focused on that are completely the reverse of real life flying.  Instrument training, for example, teaches us virtually nothing about actually flying a long distance trip on an instrument flight plan.  Practically nothing about working with ATC.  My favorite is "lost comm.". We are tested on all the details of the lost comm reg, but if you lose communication with ATC in real life the first thing you should be doing is find comm again, 91.185 should be a last resort.  There are at least a dozen ways to restore comm.  There is alot to learn about flying long distance trips that is simply not taught.  One reason is that your typical CFI/II just out of school, has never flown one either, so they don't know much about it.

[1964-M20E]

my experience has been mostly self motivated for the book work asking questions when needed.  The instructors mainly taught how to fly the plane.  

 

 

My first instructor (actually my 3rd cousin) moved off after 2nd or 3rd lesson then he hooked me up with a good instructor before he left.  He really kept on me about precision especially since at the time I wanted to be a USAF pilot.  It has served me well over the years  because I was never afraid to go into an airport maybe use more caution though.

 

Stay on the student to hold the center-line on takeoffs and landings and be precise on the speeds.  Don't let them settle for it will pass the check ride.

[vance.k]

I didn't have a very good experience with my PPL.  Doesn't seem to be many choices around here, unfortunately.  My first instructor was a great one, 4,000+ hours of instruction (he had a full time job as a fire fighter), but he bailed (before solo) for a contract job while he was waiting for retirement.  No plan for a replacement at that school (and they only had one plane that was seemingly grounded multiple times a week).

The only other game in town assigned me to a really junior and frankly, pretty immature freshly minted CFI.  In hindsight, I was definitely too laid back and should have demanded better.

My primary concerns in retrospect;

1) No defined plan.  The school has a very defined process, as it turns out, I just never saw a syllabus until pretty late in the game.  I ended up self directing to meet the requirements of the PPL directly.  The week before my check-ride, turns out they have to do a bunch of stage checks and quizzes that were supposed to be done in succession along the way.  Nice.

2) Let the student have control and struggle some.  This instructor quite literally couldn't stop touching stuff.  Radios, gps, transponder, rudder pedals, etc.  I'd fire up the plane and by the time I got through the initial checks, I'd reach over to set the radios and transponder and they would already be set.  Same thing in flight..go to get atis and prep for the next set of frequencies...already there.  Many very direct conversations and he got better, but literally on my last flight before my check-ride, I'm taxing back and he is pushing on the rudder pedals, apparently to help me steer...  I'll never forget that.

I will most certainly be much more demanding for the IR.

Just my 2 cents.  Best of luck!
Vance

 

 

[midlifeflyer]

In 28 years and almost 2000 hours, my instructors, for both certificate and rating and checkout/trasition/recurrent training have been almost uniformly excellent and I have learned something from each one. (I may have some kind of record in vacation checkouts :)) The very few exceptions stand out like sore thumbs. 

One in particular, whom I may have referred to in other posts. It was my first IPC after my instrument training and he insisted I change a procedure I had been taught because it was"wrong." I was pretty green and didn't know any better, so I went along, As it turned out, if was strictly a matter of technique, but the attempt to change it screwed me up for years to come.

That's the incident that leads to what I think it's the cardinal sin, the First Commandment, and the ultimate wisdom of flight instructing. 

Thou shalt not change a pilot's technique just because you like one better.

There are going to be times poor technique matters because it presents a real problem, whether safety or regulatory. Wisdom is knowing the difference. Quality is getting it right most of the time.

[Danb]

The depth of this question could make or break a young buck or doe quest for flight a reality or failure. Being in the older set we did not have the supporting items they have today, the internet, ipad learning modules etc. our lifeline was forming a lifelong bond with an instructor who becomes/ became a part of my life for years to  come. I leaned on my guy for flying he was an awesome older guy, lifetime issues he became part of the family, I put my life and complete faith in him when I realized he was part of my flying soul. He cared for me like a son,as he did for many of his students. Was an airport rat. Last of a breed, many days I look to the sky's to see Dons smile looking down on me forcing me into proper decision making on and on. This is a model of a great instructor and lifetime commitment to excellence in the air and on the ground. He's gone in body only, the spirit lives on, his strong commitment for excellence lives on.  THATS A GREAT INSTRUCTOR 

Thank you Don I loved you like a close member of my family. You've kept me alive and happy going on 4 decades. 

[kpaul]

19 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

Thou shalt not change a pilot's technique just because you like one better.

When I fly with a student or young co-pilot, I sit back and watch their "techniques".  Only if theirs really is not working or is ultimately unsafe, will I introduce them to a different way of doing things.

You have to be careful with using the words Procedure or Technique interchangeably since they are different.  Procedures are backed up by regulation, techniques are personal.  Then of course there are "Tech-cedures"  In military aircraft we tend to find our way into this realm because there is no regulation that spells it out, but it is needed to operate safely in our environments.