Do you use a COTS Checklist Poll

[201er]

Given the recent discussion about the massive hysterical peril of commercial off the shelf checklists, I'm curious what Mooney pilots are using and if we need to be worried?

[Mooneymite]

I use a combination of my own and what's on the panel.  It just seems handier to use the before landing checklist on the panel.

[carusoam]

My checklist came with my TT training.  It is an organized version of the POH with a few updates for new electronic things...

Paper with an iPad back-up...

Best regards,

-a-

[epsalant]

I use POH plus my own and laminate it. I update it periodically with additional items

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[MooneyMitch]

I use a compilation of the M20D POH ( such as it is) and my personal input.

[Hank]

Since my initial CFI urged me to make my own checklist for the mighty Skyhawk, I took it upon myself to do the same for my Mooney. Unlike the Cessna, though, it won't fit on a single landscape sheet of paper, so I printed it in booklet form, soft-laminated it and made it into a booklet. There was enough space to add the Performance Tables from 2300-2600 RPM at all altitudes shown in the Owners Manual.

Since I was typing it all anyway, I rearranged things to fit my cockpit flow and add in modern things (like replaced Radios--ON with Avionics Master--ON, etc.).

[LevelWing]

There was an old one that came with the plane when I bought it which was straight out of the POH. I took that and added a few additional things that I liked and then typed it up and had it printed and laminated. It turned out well and I really like it. I've also started moving the checklists over to ForeFlight to try that out, but always keep the checklist in the plane with me.

[201er]

I started out by making my own that was a booklet adaptation of the POH checklist. There were a few things I modified or added to make it more relevant. But eventually I found it too tedious to flip through the book and most things are covered more effectively with a flow. There isn't much you can forget or screw up in a Mooney besides forgetting to put the wheels down. So I rely on the GUMPS mnemonic for pre-landing and the panel mounted checklist for pre-takeoff. I'm sure if there were more critical items or a more complicated airplane that I would still rely on the booklet checklist.

[laytonl]

I made, and laminated, a personal checklist that suits my preferred cockpit flow.  Lee

[carusoam]

1) Flow is good.  

2) Organizing your checklist in the order of your flow is good.

3) Having a checklist that is really a todo list, is a hint of its complexity.

4) If you have ever...

- left the T/O flaps down into the cruise portion of the flight

- left the fuel pump running after take-off

- killed the battery because the ADSB receiver was left plugged in

... There is room for improvement with your flow, checklists, or methods.  

5) Gumps doesn't get written down or pulled out of storage.  If you can only memorize one thing.  This is it.

6) My paper checklist actually failed on the ground one day.  It slid down the glare shield next to the windshield.  A crevice that is 1/4" open.  Not wide enough to get with your fingers... getting it back required a piece of tape.

Best regards,

-a-

Edited April 28, 2017 by carusoam

[RLCarter]

had an old ratty CheckMate list when I purchased the plane, I have since made my own (2 sided) along with a 2 sided W&B and Loading graph, its printed on 6.5" x 8.5" (about the same size an iPad Mini) card stock and laminated, they fit easily in the side pocket. also saved the files on my iPad and open them up in Wing-X documents. Nothing was omitted from the POH or the checkmate list in fact a few things were added

[Marauder]

This will be an interesting poll. I fly with several owners in various airplanes. I do see a pretty diverse approach to this topic. Everything from "my plane is simple, I don't need one" to people like me who use a flow method, confirmed with a checklist focused on critical elements.

I do think the type of flying also will have some bearing on what people do. If you are doing takeoffs and landings in a 172 versus flying an approach in a fast complex airplane, I think there will be more or less adherence to using a checklist.




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[jlunseth]

12 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

I use a combination of my own and what's on the panel.  It just seems handier to use the before landing checklist on the panel.

The older POH's don't really have a checklist, they have written descriptions of various operations, like a normal landing.  I used a couple of commercial checklists I had from my private training, I think they were for Warriors, and built a checklist up for my 231.  I have some avionics add-ons, one being an Icarus SAM that wants a pressure setting, destination altitude, and target altitude so I put that in the list.  I originally typed it up, but then pdf'd it and loaded it into Foreflights documents.  I have tried various electronic checklists, but the "check and respond" method is very slow.  There are some things where I just use mental checklists, like climb check and cruise check.  There are some things, like instrument procedure, where I use panel flows.

[Bob - S50]

There are four of us that own the plane.  We started with the POH checklists but shortened them.  We mostly kept items that could result in damage or an injury if skipped.  And we kept a few things that could make life much harder IMC if skipped.  We then printed the resulting checklists and stuck them to the panel above our radio stacks so we can reference them hands free.

With that said, what I do depends on who I'm with.  I always do a flow first.  On the ground, I then read the checklist to confirm I got everything.  In the air, the only time I use the checklist is when my wife is with me.  She reads it and I respond.

[Bob - S50]

Now that I've read the thread about COTS, I'll add a bit more.

I thought you were referring only to normal checklists, not emergency checklists.

For emergency checklists I have several options.

1.  Since we have a GTN650, I've used the Garmin provided program to create checklists for the GTN.  I've created them for emergencies exactly as listed in the POH plus I may have actually added an item or two like unlatching the door prior to touchdown for a gear up landing.

2.  I've also printed them and have them in my flight bag.

3.  One of my partners did the same on laminated paper and we keep them in the glove box.

4.  I'm going to suggest to Garmin that they add another option in Pilot to allow the user to create checklists.  If they do, I'll use the POH to do that.

[chrisk]

Years ago, I ordered a checklist.  I believe it was from Essco Aircraft.  --It's a laminated version of the checklists in the POH.  It's pretty useful.  An example of why you might want something like this on the start up check list:  Alternate Air.  Open then close.    All that said, I've found a list on line that I like.  http://www.dezkk.de/CHECKLIST_V2.pdf

[Oldguy]

For normal operations, I use my own checklists I developed from the POH and taking into account the various avionics and equipment I have in the aircraft. They are built by following the flow of what I do once I am in the plane. I have them and the POH loaded into ForeFlight in the Documents tab. This makes it easier to update the checklists as I add/move/change avionics or instruments on the panel or in the plane.

Emergency checklists are lightly customized and printed out from the POH, laminated and spiral bound for ease of access and use by anyone in the plane. (Disclaimer: I also have a print shop I run so I have more accessibility to the equipment to do this than normal.)

As a side note, Don Maxwell once said to re-read your POH on a regular basis and you would always pick up some nugget you either missed or had forgotten. Having it loaded into FF on my iPad makes it easy to do. And it goes without saying he was correct.

[MBDiagMan]

I am new to my mooney and haven't had time to develop my own.  I found one online that I modified as a stop gap until I build one from an Excel template that I built my Cessna checklist from.  Not hard to use a spreadsheet, print and have laminated.

[Bennett]

I printed my own "reference" listing which is not a true checklist. I then laminated it and keep it in the airplane. Startup is the flow pattern I have used for many years in Mooneys. Also for runup and pretakeoff. If I fly with another pilot I hand him the reference sheet and he can review it, and what I do as a matter of routine. If my brain can't recall the flow sequences, I won't fly. If it is a recurrent thing, I'll take it as a sign that I shouldn't be flying any longer. After thousands of hours in my Mooneys I have developed my own sequences, and checks of what I have done. With passengers, I insist on a "sterile cockpit" from doors closed, seat belts on, to 1000'. Sure, there can be distractions, but if so, I repeat my flow process. For landing, GUMPS (at least twice, with visually checking the floor and panel indicators) works for me. I always drop the gear early, and the rumble and slowing of the aircraft is a clue that the gear sequence has been initiated. Civilian flying is a very personal experience, and how you personally use check lists, flows, or reference sheets is a personal decision, in my opinion.

 

 

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[thinwing]

2 hours ago, Bennett said:

I printed my own "reference" listing which is not a true checklist. I then laminated it and keep it in the airplane. Startup is the flow pattern I have used for many years in Mooneys. Also for runup and pretakeoff. If I fly with another pilot I hand him the reference sheet and he can review it, and what I do as a matter of routine. If my brain can't recall the flow sequences, I won't fly. If it is a recurrent thing, I'll take it as a sign that I shouldn't be flying any longer. After thousands of hours in my Mooneys I have developed my own sequences, and checks of what I have done. With passengers, I insist on a "sterile cockpit" from doors closed, seat belts on, to 1000'. Sure, there can be distractions, but if so, I repeat my flow process. For landing, GUMPS (at least twice, with visually checking the floor and panel indicators) works for me. I always drop the gear early, and the rumble and slowing of the aircraft is a clue that the gear sequence has been initiated. Civilian flying is a very personal experience, and how you personally use check lists, flows, or reference sheets is a personal decision, in my opinion.

 

 

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I think when I can no longer remember how to get to the hanger ,it will be time to hang it up

[Oldguy]

1 hour ago, thinwing said:

I think when I can no longer remember how to get to the hanger ,it will be time to hang it up

Sounds like a good reason to live in an airpark community!

[thinwing]

14 minutes ago, Oldguy said:

Sounds like a good reason to live in an airpark community!

Bingo...

[jonhop]

My J came with a laminated POH checklist that matches the book. I use it for pre-flight/start/run-up. I then switch to the flow of BCGUMPS for each phase of flight until landing. I keep the checklist handy and turned to the emergency section, just in case. The panel checklist would work in a pinch but it is too hard to see IMHO... 

[Andy95W]

9 hours ago, Bennett said:

I printed my own "reference" listing which is not a true checklist. I then laminated it and keep it in the airplane. Startup is the flow pattern I have used for many years in Mooneys. Also for runup and pretakeoff. If I fly with another pilot I hand him the reference sheet and he can review it, and what I do as a matter of routine. If my brain can't recall the flow sequences, I won't fly. If it is a recurrent thing, I'll take it as a sign that I shouldn't be flying any longer. After thousands of hours in my Mooneys I have developed my own sequences, and checks of what I have done. With passengers, I insist on a "sterile cockpit" from doors closed, seat belts on, to 1000'. Sure, there can be distractions, but if so, I repeat my flow process. For landing, GUMPS (at least twice, with visually checking the floor and panel indicators) works for me. I always drop the gear early, and the rumble and slowing of the aircraft is a clue that the gear sequence has been initiated. Civilian flying is a very personal experience, and how you personally use check lists, flows, or reference sheets is a personal decision, in my opinion.

 

 

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Bennett's description is 99.5% exactly what I do as well when I'm flying my Mooney or the C-172/150 I regularly fly. 

(BTW- Any airplane more complex than a Piper Aztec, that I'm not familiar with, or that I get paid to fly- I use the checklist.)

[bonal]

I found some nice checklists for a 64 c on the interweb and printed them and laminated them since my POH is for a fixed gear D and does not provide much for the conversion to the C. I had my CFI review them and he thought they were fine. I found pre flight starting cold, hot and flooded also engine fire on start up. pre takeoff climb cruise descent and landing also engine issue from rough running to inflight fire. But I will be honest I have been using flow and haven't been pulling them out like I should. Will be doing that again. I repeat GUMPS on approach to pattern and with each phase of pattern to landing. I use CIGARS for pre takeoff.