Back to Air Force Habit?

[Bob - S50]

I'm thinking about going back to a habit we had when I flew little planes in the Air Force, but we did not do when I flew for the airlines.  I'm thinking about adding "gear down" to my base turn call.  For example:

"Auburn traffic, Mooney 1CB left base runway 34, gear down, full stop Auburn."

The idea also being that when I say 'gear down' I also reach up and touch the gear handle and point to the indicator.  Anything can be habituated (I've seen a student call gear down even though it wasn't), but I'm hoping it won't.

What do you think?

Bob

[1964-M20E]

Not a bad idea.  I have had on very rare occasions the tower ask me to confirm wheels down and locked which I like.  I don't say on the radio but I do say to my self multiple times when setting up for landing but I have thought about it several times.

[Hank]

I wait for the thump when I lower them, verify later, and on final check the floor indicator (since it can't be wrong).

[Marauder]

I've been using "gear down" on my final for years. Since my airport is on LiveATC, nice to have it recorded just in case there ever is an issue.


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[Cyril Gibb]

Unnecessary chatter... but not nearly as bad as adding "any conflicting traffic please reply" to a traffic alert, or "with you" on initial callup.  Perhaps my curmudgeon is showing?  My preference is to keep it simple.  On initial callup I provide aircraft type and call letters so the controller (or other aircraft at an uncontrolled field) can use the info for sequencing.  After that in the pattern, aircraft type is irrelevant.  Again, just my preference.

[StevenL757]

1 hour ago, Bob - S50 said:

I'm thinking about going back to a habit we had when I flew little planes in the Air Force, but we did not do when I flew for the airlines.  I'm thinking about adding "gear down" to my base turn call.  For example:

"Auburn traffic, Mooney 1CB left base runway 34, gear down, full stop Auburn."

The idea also being that when I say 'gear down' I also reach up and touch the gear handle and point to the indicator.  Anything can be habituated (I've seen a student call gear down even though it wasn't), but I'm hoping it won't.

What do you think?

Bob

I agree.  Adds more structure and flow to your approach and landing routine...a good thing.

[M20F]

I would think utilizing a GUMPS checklist sans the radio would be just as good and wouldn't clutter the frequency.  

[ArtVandelay]

What happens when at a towered airport or straight in approach?

[Sean S]

GUMPS 3 times. Mid field, abeam the numbers and final.

[201er]

Are you going to share with everyone what you had for lunch? Or your opinion on grannys and grandes?

I think it's a great idea to say it to yourself. I think it's a great idea to say it to your passengers. But really, everyone flying fixed gear won't appreciate you rubbing it in. 

Edited March 17, 2017 by 201er

[HRM]

Isn't there a thing where you (literally) shout out that the gear is down? Is that GUMPS?

Frankly, I don't see the need for any of that but...whatever floats your boat.

I have a checklist and it includes giving a very hard tug to my Johnson to verify it is up (and the gear is down).

[Skates97]

3 hours ago, M20F said:

I would think utilizing a GUMPS checklist sans the radio would be just as good and wouldn't clutter the frequency.  

Works for me, I use GUMPS, twice. Abeam the touch down point when my gear goes down and again on base before turning final. Both times I verbalize it in the plane (not over the radio) and don't just look but touch everything. 

Edited March 17, 2017 by Skates97

[EricJ]

A recent instructor that helped me get current again had me doing the "flaps, gear, cleared to land" check always on short final.   Certainly not a bad habit, and does provide a backup on the straight-in approaches.   Doing multiple GUMPS checks is never a bad idea.   I tend to use the gear to help slow down, anyway, so that helps get it down reasonably early in the process.   Also, regular functional checks of the gear warning horn is not a bad idea, either.

 

[201er]

45 minutes ago, HRM said:

I have a checklist and it includes giving a very hard tug to my Johnson to verify it is up

I don't think we need to hear about your bedroom checklists... 

[mccdeuce]

In the Navy they call the gear but it's a verification not an action. 

At the heliports we don't have to but flying into jet bases where they expect it I like replying 3 down and welded. Just to be an ass.

[thinwing]

1 hour ago, HRM said:

Isn't there a thing where you (literally) shout out that the gear is down? Is that GUMPS?

Frankly, I don't see the need for any of that but...whatever floats your boat.

I have a checklist and it includes giving a very hard tug to my Johnson to verify it is up (and the gear is down).

Do you mean you grabbed your wanger?

[kpaul]

The gear call is required at Air Force towers.  I say it out of habit even going into civilian fields, while saying is I physically check the handle is down and that I have gear down indications.

Cluttering the Radios?  Listen to military towers, there is a lot less chatter going on than at civilian fields towered or not.

Making a "Left base, gear down, full stop/touch & go"  or "final approach fix, gear down, full stop/touch & go" does not clutter the radio.

If you want to be fighter pilot cool you can just say "base, gear, stop" 

The typical guy flying into a non-towered field giving a essay on their location, intentions, coordinating with the FBO, planning for lunch with their buddy, that is cluttering the radios.

[Aviationinfo]

I would recommend that you go ahead and say it aloud, but don't transmit it.  Civilian towers and your fellow civilian pilots aren't used to hearing that.  It's  something nobody is expecting and hence could add a bit of confusion.  No need.    As I recall it's done in response to a tower query at military towers, so that verification means more than if you're just transmitting it into the blind.  By simply saying it aloud without transmitting it, you're accomplishing the same thing.

 

 

[orionflt]

I have always used my Navy habits from calling out airspeeds alive to gear down, I do not transmit everything but i do actually say it out loud during the difffernt segments of my flight.

Brian

[Bob - S50]

On 3/18/2017 at 1:08 AM, kpaul said:

The gear call is required at Air Force towers.  I say it out of habit even going into civilian fields, while saying is I physically check the handle is down and that I have gear down indications.

Cluttering the Radios?  Listen to military towers, there is a lot less chatter going on than at civilian fields towered or not.

Making a "Left base, gear down, full stop/touch & go"  or "final approach fix, gear down, full stop/touch & go" does not clutter the radio.

If you want to be fighter pilot cool you can just say "base, gear, stop" 

The typical guy flying into a non-towered field giving a essay on their location, intentions, coordinating with the FBO, planning for lunch with their buddy, that is cluttering the radios.

I used to really muck up the radios when I was at McChord.  LK14 right base, gear down, full stop, no chute.

[kpaul]

18 hours ago, Aviationinfo said:

I would recommend that you go ahead and say it aloud, but don't transmit it.  Civilian towers and your fellow civilian pilots aren't used to hearing that.  It's  something nobody is expecting and hence could add a bit of confusion.  No need.    As I recall it's done in response to a tower query at military towers, so that verification means more than if you're just transmitting it into the blind.  By simply saying it aloud without transmitting it, you're accomplishing the same thing.

 

 

At a military tower it is expected.  If you don't include it in the call then the tower will query prior to giving a clearance.

[carusoam]

Give unto Caesar what is his...

Recognize and adapt to the environment you are in, if you can...

1) The military radio technique sounds useable in the military environment.

2) Unfortunately, we are not all training to the same playbook.

3) Some traffic patterns are full of lowtime and student pilots. They are not going to be helped by knowing your gear status...

4) the traffic pattern jargon that includes my tail number but doesn't mention my fuselage color is great for confusing me with somebody else...

5) if your radio call matches your environment, this is good.

6) if your radio call matches what you trained for in 1997. It can probably be enhanced.

7) if your radio call clearly identifies your plane to the other people in the pattern. This would be great...

8) if your radio call confuses a student pilot, what happens...  does he assume you are a knowledgeable pilot, you know where everyone else is...?

9) If I say 'blue and white Mooney turning base' would you confuse me with any other plane on final or downwind?

10) what are the important parts of the radio calls... 

- clearly be recognized, not confused with somebody else in the pattern.

- where you are and where you will be in the pattern. In case there are others doing opposite patterns, like helicopters.

- who you are following

- all the legal and trained stuff, a tail number at least once...

- all the key points like 10 miles out, 5 Miles out, pattern entry, down wind, base, final, clear of the active, and going around....

11) avoid being run into buy somebody that thinks they are following you, but, they are really following the guy in front of you... high possibility.

12) Gumps checks. Said out loud in a verbal mediation kind of way, not broadcasted, not said and then skipped...

13) traffic patterns can be very busy. Broadcasting lots of details, several times, to people that are also very busy doing their own thing.

14) best to be brief, concise, and clear. Be understood, be recognized...

Stuff I learned about at uncontrolled fields,  on busy weekends.

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

Edited March 20, 2017 by carusoam

[Danb]

Its a great practice just say it in the plane not on the radio, I like a few others do it at least 3-5 times once on base and 2-3 on final, each time I touch the lever with my hand, last time my eyes go the the light on the floor, it's conditioned response.

[Marauder]

Give unto Caesar what is his...
Recognize and adapt to the environment you are in, if you can...
1) The military radio technique sounds useable in the military environment.
2) Unfortunately, we are not all training to the same playbook.
3) Some traffic patterns are full of lowtime and student pilots. They are not going to be helped by knowing your gear status...
4) the traffic pattern jargon that includes my tail number but doesn't mention my fuselage color is great for confusing me with somebody else...
5) if your radio call matches your environment, this is good.
6) if your radio call matches what you trained for in 1997. It can probably be enhanced.
7) if your radio call clearly identifies your plane to the other people in the pattern. This would be great...
8) if your radio call confuses a student pilot, what happens...  does he assume you are a knowledgeable pilot, you know where everyone else is...?
9) If I say 'blue and white Mooney turning base' would you confuse me with any other plane on final or downwind?
10) what are the important parts of the radio calls... 
- clearly be recognized, not confused with somebody else in the pattern.
- where you are and where you will be in the pattern. In case there are others doing opposite patterns, like helicopters.
- who you are following
- all the legal and trained stuff, a tail number at least once...
- all the key points like 10 miles out, 5 Miles out, pattern entry, down wind, base, final, clear of the active, and going around....
11) avoid being run into buy somebody that thinks they are following you, but, they are really following the guy in front of you... high possibility.
12) Gumps checks. Said out loud in a verbal mediation kind of way, not broadcasted, not said and then skipped...
13) traffic patterns can be very busy. Broadcasting lots of details, several times, to people that are also very busy doing their own thing.
14) best to be brief, concise, and clear. Be understood, be recognized...
Stuff I learned about at uncontrolled fields,  on busy weekends.
PP thoughts only, not a CFI...
Best regards,
-a-

Staying at Holiday Inn Express again Anthony?


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[carusoam]

Good sleep helps when Digging up old memories of what it was like to be a student pilot... 

Instrument pilots would fly into my home drome... they would fly practice approaches, straight in, giving position reports on the CTAF in the form of names of the IAF, FAF, and final approach... great exacting details...

Great details that meant somebody is Coming straight in and doesn't want to let me know where they are...

PP response is typically look both ways and announce one's intentions.

We were using the same space, not speaking the same language.

 

Great discussion here.  I had no idea what I didn't know at the time...

it would have probably taken a CFI an hour to cover approach plates 101, and more time to cover other good to know things like deeper com skills, and weather acquisition skills that are not part of the PP knowledge set.

 

With MS and other resources, a PP has a great opportunity to ask...  'why did that pilot say what he said...'

Best regards,

-a-