Landing gear motor failure advice please

[Joe Larussa]

Howdy fellow Mooney kind of guys,

So it looks like my landing gear motor model Dukes 1057-00-5g is toast. Motor brushes

were completely gone. Any experience or suggestions?

[carusoam]

Wow, how did you find that out?

Any issues with the back-up LG system?

Motor brushes are usually pretty easy to replace.  They can be some small dollar parts.  They get replaced as a normal part of maintenance.  They are designed to be removed and replaced easily. Generators have these wonders as well.

Running the brushes completely out may scratch the rotating surface they are gliding on.  An electric motor OH shop is pretty good at handling these kind of things.

Selecting a good electric motor shop may take a recommendation from somebody around here....

Or was the resulting damage significantly worse?

Best regards,

-a-

[Yetti]

The last thread on this was busted up acme thread shaft and supporting drive bearings fubared.   The person left the discussion when a suggestion was made about the same actuator was used for Cessna flaps.  You can find the information on Don Maxewell's discussion on lubing the acme shaft.

Polishing up the armature with some emery cloth and new brushes should get the motor going again.  The motor looks surprising like a electric motor from a car used to roll up and down the windows. 

 

[KSMooniac]

Call LASAR.

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[Oscar Avalle]

Call Don Maxwell, he was great when my gear motor went belly up.

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[Guest]

Try George's Electric in Sacramento 916-922-4277

Clarence

[bonal]

George's electric would be right down the road nothing like keeping it local.

[Joe Larussa]

 

Wow, how did you find that out?

Any issues with the back-up LG system?

Motor brushes are usually pretty easy to replace.  They can be some small dollar parts.  They get replaced as a normal part of maintenance.  They are designed to be removed and replaced easily. Generators have these wonders as well.

Running the brushes completely out may scratch the rotating surface they are gliding on.  An electric motor OH shop is pretty good at handling these kind of things.

Selecting a good electric motor shop may take a recommendation from somebody around here....

Or was the resulting damage significantly worse?

Best regards,

-a-

Gear retracted only partially so had to do a manual extension. Oh what fun that was! Pulled the motor today and there was nothing left of the brushes. Going through the logs and no mention of any maintenance ever! Just wondering while I have it out should I have the gears checked or serviced?

[Ron McBride]

George's electric as posted above.    There is an AD Note for inspection.  I think it is every 200 hours.  I don't have the info handy.   Have Lasar or Top Gun do the inspection while it is out of the plane.  If needed replace the gears, I like the 40:1 that replaced the 20:1 that originally come with the plane.

 

Ron

[carusoam]

The usual questions come up like...

1) How many hours on it?

2) Does it have the no back spring clutch issue related to it?  This odd spring is hard to get, costs more than it should and can fail equally well when old or new.  It has a recommended time for replacement of something like 1k hrs.  Some people have ignored it with good experience for a whole lot longer....

3) Did your mechanic remove the part with the screw/gears?

4) can he clean and inspect these parts while he is in there?

5) fresh lubrication on the gears in accordance with the MM is probably a good thing...

Be sure to check your own details on this.  I have not had any issues with a landing gear motor yet...

These are PP ideas, I am not a mechanic.

Best regards,

-a-

[Joe Larussa]

 

George's electric as posted above.    There is an AD Note for inspection.  I think it is every 200 hours.  I don't have the info handy.   Have Lasar or Top Gun do the inspection while it is out of the plane.  If needed replace the gears, I like the 40:1 that replaced the 20:1 that originally come with the plane.

 

Ron

Looks like my serial number doesn't apply to the AD.  Looks like I have the 40:1 gears.

[Joe Larussa]

 

The usual questions come up like...

1) How many hours on it?

2) Does it have the no back spring clutch issue related to it?  This odd spring is hard to get, costs more than it should and can fail equally well when old or new.  It has a recommended time for replacement of something like 1k hrs.  Some people have ignored it with good experience for a whole lot longer....

3) Did your mechanic remove the part with the screw/gears?

4) can he clean and inspect these parts while he is in there?

5) fresh lubrication on the gears in accordance with the MM is probably a good thing...

Be sure to check your own details on this.  I have not had any issues with a landing gear motor yet...

These are PP ideas, I am not a mechanic.

Best regards,

-a-

It looks like 3800-ish hours. Not mention in the logs about servicing or replacement. I've heard of the back spring clutch but not sure if it applies. How can you tell?

[carusoam]

Try something like this...

 

 

The power of MS....

Best regards,

-a-

[Oscar Avalle]

George's electric as posted above.    There is an AD Note for inspection.  I think it is every 200 hours.  I don't have the info handy.   Have Lasar or Top Gun do the inspection while it is out of the plane.  If needed replace the gears, I like the 40:1 that replaced the 20:1 that originally come with the plane.

 

Ron

I had to replace the gear from 20x1 to 40x1. Works great, however it is strange to have to wait longer for the gear to retract or extend. On the other hand it feels much smoother.

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[carusoam]

Definitely read up on the advantages of the 40:1 gears.  Less stress/strain on things compared to the quicker 20:1 set.

the search function is your friend here as well.  Let me know if you need help with that.  I'm just getting almost good wth it myself.

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

 

I had to replace the gear from 20x1 to 40x1. Works great, however it is strange to have to wait longer for the gear to retract or extend. On the other hand it feels much smoother.

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I've grown to like the 'wham!' in the seats s the gear comes up. The 'thunk' as they go down is also reassuring. Do the slower gears still do that? 

Note, too, that if you do a manual extension, the 40:1 takes twice as many turns. Standard gears take 52 turns of the crank; the 40:1 will take 100+ turns. I've done mine once for real.

[helitim]

During my annual the other day, I counted the manual turns to drop the gear.  109 turns.  I guess I have the 40:1 gears.

[Oscar Avalle]

  I had to replace the gear from 20x1 to 40x1. Works great, however it is strange to have to wait longer for the gear to retract or extend. On the other hand it feels much smoother.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've grown to like the 'wham!' in the seats s the gear comes up. The 'thunk' as they go down is also reassuring. Do the slower gears still do that? 

Note, too, that if you do a manual extension, the 40:1 takes twice as many turns. Standard gears take 52 turns of the crank; the 40:1 will take 100+ turns. I've done mine once for real.

The wham is history.

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[ArtVandelay]

Definitely read up on the advantages of the 40:1 gears.  Less stress/strain on things compared to the quicker 20:1 set.

the search function is your friend here as well.  Let me know if you need help with that.  I'm just getting almost good wth it myself.

Best regards,

-a-

We need a FAQ, MS search brings up to much noise IMO

[cnoe]

 

During my annual the other day, I counted the manual turns to drop the gear.  109 turns.  I guess I have the 40:1 gears.

What year J? Mine ('78) doesn't use a crank but instead has a t-handle with a cable between the seats that you pull up several times. The placard says it takes 12-20 pulls though I can't remember exactly how many mine takes. All that "cranking" sounds like a lot of work. 

Just curious if some of the newer planes reverted back to cranks vs. t-handles.

[KSMooniac]

The '77 J had a different actuator and emergency extension system vs. the '78+ Mooneys.  It is indeed a crank on the pilot side wall with a lever to engage it.  100+ turns is correct!  I think the pre-J planes with electric gear had the same system as well and it carried over for the first year J.  This actuator does not have the infamous no-back clutch spring too.

[helitim]

First time I tried extending, I thought it was broken because it was taking so many turns.  Little learning curve there. 

[mike_elliott]

 

Howdy fellow Mooney kind of guys,

So it looks like my landing gear motor model Dukes 1057-00-5g is toast. Motor brushes

were completely gone. Any experience or suggestions?

I saw a couple of actuators last month in Don Maxwell's parts room. You might give him a call.

[KSMooniac]

 

First time I tried extending, I thought it was broken because it was taking so many turns.  Little learning curve there. 

Every owner should practice the extension on jack stands during annual, especially those of us with the side wall crank and delicate spline coupling.  The annual checklist calls for it of course, and it helps the owner get acquainted with the system before needing it in the air!  I had to use mine for real in year two of ownership, and am glad I knew exactly what to do.  This year while checking at annual, we discovered my spline coupling had failed and there was no way to crank it down!  I'm so glad we found it then, especially with a newly overhauled engine, vs. in the air...

[Oldguy]

 

Every owner should practice the extension on jack stands during annual, especially those of us with the side wall crank and delicate spline coupling.  The annual checklist calls for it of course, and it helps the owner get acquainted with the system before needing it in the air!  I had to use mine for real in year two of ownership, and am glad I knew exactly what to do.  This year while checking at annual, we discovered my spline coupling had failed and there was no way to crank it down!  I'm so glad we found it then, especially with a newly overhauled engine, vs. in the air...

The first time I had my J in annual with my mechanic, he asked if I had ever lowered my gear manually, and when I said no he had me get up in the plane on jacks and do it. Went through all of the procedure and not just pulling the handle. Not a lot of strokes on that T-handle (14?), but too many can apparently cause problems. Still nothing I look forward to doing, but I feel I can do it and be confident about it.