De-iceing (on the ground) prior to flying...?

[Mooney13]

Does anyone have any recommendations on general aircraft de-icing (on the ground) prior to flying on those "frosty" days?
For guys like me, not blessed with a hangar

I am just curious if there is anything out there safe to use on the Mooney that is not too expensive...

Thanks!

[RobertL]

My a/c has always lived outside - don't all Aztecs? If the dreaded freezing fog is around only a warm hangar will work in my view. If overnight frost and sunny then a leather chamois and the sun might work. Am very doubtful of the warm water technique as you are never sure where it might collect and re-freeze. Ditto for the milder, home made solutions with de-icing.

[piperpainter]

Wing covers & stab covers! When I didn't have those I used the windshied deice fluid and it seemed to work good and not cause any problems. I used the purple stuff, but any of it will probably do the job.

[Mooney13]

Good Idea...didn't think about that. I had to just move it around to get some sun on all areas and wait. Then wipe all the water/ice off as I could with a towel (last Saturday morning, Bryan).....works ok, just took forever....thanks for the responses guys

[KSMooniac]

Heated hangar or warming it in the sunshine are really the only ways unless you want to get some real aircraft de-ice fluid.  I would never use anything other than aircraft-approved stuff because it could lead to bad corrosion.

[Mooney13]

I was thinking a gallon of the tks fluid might also work well with a spray bottle......just a thought...

[Flybeech21]

Just use rubbing alcohol.  Its pretty much the same thing as type I de-ice fluid except it is not heated.

[LuvFlying]

 

The club ran out of the good de-ice fluid (I don't know what it was) last year and could not locate any (in less than a barrel size). We ended up buying a bunch of 90 or 95% rubbing alcohol.

It's awful. It seems to just make things worse.  It MIGHT work for morning frost, but that's a big MIGHT.  It seems to just soak into the ice and then freeze harder. 

[Bob]

I thought about this last week and decided to use TKS fluid in a home weed sprayer.  I would not try automotive windshield deicer.  The main component is salt.  I am not fond of salt on 30 year old aluminum.

[Brooks]

i have tks installed on my aircraft.  i use the same fluid in a hand sprayer and it works fairly well. it is slightly thicker that water so it will spray a little harder but not to bad. i also use it on my car when it gets ice on it and i dont want to scrape

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: ILXLR8

I thought about this last week and decided to use TKS fluid in a home weed sprayer.  I would not try automotive windshield deicer.  The main component is salt.  I am not fond of salt on 30 year old aluminum.

[Brooks]

 --

[Bob]

Parker-Yes I did.  I picked it up on November 4th.  I am enjoying it!  Have about 25hrs on it now.  I grabbed one of Paul's pictures for my Avatar.  Have not had any time to take any of my own.  It takes a bit of time learning the options available to me in the panel.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: ILXLR8

Parker-Yes I did.  I picked it up on November 4th.  I am enjoying it!  Have about 25hrs on it now.  I grabbed one of Paul's pictures for my Avatar.  Have not had any time to take any of my own.  It takes a bit of time learning the options available to me in the panel.

[Jeff_S]

Another good option which I haven't seen mentioned is RV antifreeze. That's the general name for it, but it's not really antifreeze in the common sense of the word; it's designed to go into the water system for an RV and keep them from freezing. This means that not only does it have the de-icing capabilities, but it's also non-toxic and non-flammable so it avoids the problems that alcohol and the other de-icers have.  It works great.

[Mooney13]

Good Idea Jeff...

I ended up in a "pinch" yesturday. I had to get my plane to the avionics shop...it has been cold as ^$&# here the last couple of days and ice was everywhere. So I bought a weed sprayer...filled it with winsheild defroster...purple... Bryan   And it actually worked pretty good. I did check the ingredients to make sure there was no salt in this mix......worked out well..Probably not as ideal as TKS or other options, but 2 bucks a bottle .... thanks for all the ideas ! I will probably try TKS and that RV stuff too (once I check what's in them) ...Happy Holidays..

[CoachTom]

The "R/V" anti freeze is colored pink and consists of Propylene Glycol as opposed to the toxic version we use in our autos: Ethylene Glycol.

The Propylene Glycol is non toxic as it is approved for use in fresh water systems on both boats and R/V's so it should not be harmful or toxic to either the environment or the aircraft.

I once had to get de-iced at what used to be called Stewart Army Airfield in Newburgh, NY.  The commercial guys came out to my Army helicopter with the heated de-icing fluid and proceeded to "slime" my aircraft.  I thought it would just be hot water and anti-freeze in it, but my OH-6 looked like a scene from "ghostbusters"...

[Awful_Charlie]

I just get a bunch of propylene glycol & some IPA, mix it in roughly equal parts with hot water from the kettle, and then spray it on (or more in my case, slosh it around on the ground so I can get the aircraft out of the hangar). MEG works as well as MPG and is marginally cheaper but is toxic - guess the decision will be on if you have friendly critters roaming or not. A year or two of MEG use seemed to rid my hangar of mice and marten raids . TKS fluid is the same three components, highly filtered (and highly marked up in price!)

 

IPA is handy to have around anyway, from putting some into tanks for any water absorbing, to a light cleaning solvent that works on perspex. I normally keep a few gallons on hand. Glycol is slippery is used on its own (not so great on the ground) and neat doesn't have a great freezing temperature, the water is cheap and actually lowers the freezing point of glycol. Here IPA is a similar price to Avgas, and glycol about double, so a gallon of mix doesn't break the bank

[schule]

Interesting idea....using the ethanol in an IPA to solve the ice problem. It would seem to give you at least 8 hours for the ice to melt off. Just be careful transporting across political boundaries......hope you all have a safe and Merry Christmas.

[aviatoreb]

I just get a bunch of propylene glycol & some IPA, mix it in roughly equal parts with hot water from the kettle, and then spray it on (or more in my case, slosh it around on the ground so I can get the aircraft out of the hangar). MEG works as well as MPG and is marginally cheaper but is toxic - guess the decision will be on if you have friendly critters roaming or not. A year or two of MEG use seemed to rid my hangar of mice and marten raids . TKS fluid is the same three components, highly filtered (and highly marked up in price!)

 

IPA is handy to have around anyway, from putting some into tanks for any water absorbing, to a light cleaning solvent that works on perspex. I normally keep a few gallons on hand. Glycol is slippery is used on its own (not so great on the ground) and neat doesn't have a great freezing temperature, the water is cheap and actually lowers the freezing point of glycol. Here IPA is a similar price to Avgas, and glycol about double, so a gallon of mix doesn't break the bank

 

There must be something extra in TKS to make it so tenacious.  If I run my TKS for 5 minutes upon departure then turn it off and fly for 200 miles and then land and then don't fly for 10 days and then come back to my hangar - there are still little droplets of the stuff on my prop and on the wings.

[MB65E]

I've had good luck with a credit card As an ice/frost scraper To the coward half of the wing top side.

I never have the fluid when I need it...

PA-44, 182, 172 and a Super D all worked well.

-Matt

[Awful_Charlie]

Yes, IPA refers to iso-propyl alcohol, not India Pale Ale which doesn't mix that well with flying.

 

In the Bravo POH up to 1% IPA is advised for protection against water freezing in fuel, and it is a fuel in its own right, so I don't have a problem lobbing the odd pint in now and then, particularly if it's been humid on partial tanks with a large temperature variation - I take care of the cap o-rings, and know the seal is good. I've never actually had water come from the drains, but I figure the odd IPA treatment stops it building up

 

TKS is just the three components, see attached spec. for DTD406B (AL-5). What you are probably seeing Erik is the residual glycol (the water and alcohol having evaporated) mixed with pollution, resulting in a rather sticky mess. Fortunately, it washes off easily with water, but the longer you leave it the more dust and rubbish sticks to it making it seem worse.

DTD406b.pdf

[Piloto]

For snow and ice removal I use one of this

http://www.uline.com/BL_7039/Deck-Scrub-Brushes

I trimmed the handle for easy fit in the baggage area. No need for fluids.

 

José

[aviatoreb]

Yes, IPA refers to iso-propyl alcohol, not India Pale Ale which doesn't mix that well with flying.

 

In the Bravo POH up to 1% IPA is advised for protection against water freezing in fuel, and it is a fuel in its own right, so I don't have a problem lobbing the odd pint in now and then, particularly if it's been humid on partial tanks with a large temperature variation - I take care of the cap o-rings, and know the seal is good. I've never actually had water come from the drains, but I figure the odd IPA treatment stops it building up

 

TKS is just the three components, see attached spec. for DTD406B (AL-5). What you are probably seeing Erik is the residual glycol (the water and alcohol having evaporated) mixed with pollution, resulting in a rather sticky mess. Fortunately, it washes off easily with water, but the longer you leave it the more dust and rubbish sticks to it making it seem worse.

 

Do you put IPA directly into your fuel?  I do add Prist to my fuel in the winter - the certified approved for avgas use version of the stuff.  Its not so expensive.  I think its about $0.1/gal if you work it out.  It has a method to distribute it directly into the fuel stream as you fuel.  They say that you do not want to just dump it into the fuel tank as it goes to the bottom and doesn't mix, and that is also bad for your tank sealant.  How is IPA?  I suspect Prist is largely IPA.  Anyway also how much is the cost for IPA converted to per gallon?

 

As for TKS fluid being just those three components.  Really?  Nothing but those three chemicals - no secret witches blend to make it tenacious like I was guessing.  What would be to stop us from mixing our own?  And how much would it cost for roll your own tks fluid?  Yeah - for now I am sticking with the official TKS fluid but I am curious if you have ever done the math.

[M20F]

I thought about this last week and decided to use TKS fluid in a home weed sprayer.  I would not try automotive windshield deicer.  The main component is salt.  I am not fond of salt on 30 year old aluminum.

I use TKS and a garden sprayer as well. Let it sit after you apply it and then it comes pretty easy. I have on occasion put the sprayer in a turkey fryer filled with water to heat it up and spray it which works very well.