What is “Hard IFR”?

[hubcap]

I keep seeing this description used…so what is your definition? Icing? Low ceilings? Convection?

[C.J.]

Ceiling = or < 500' and/or visibility < 1sm

[McMooney]

It's not a legal term.

 

for me it's Low ceilings that approach mins and wide spread, as in will be in it from start to finish, without Icing/thunderstorms.

I add the without icing and thunderstorms as i will not fly anywhere near either.  Actually as the paint is coming off birdy, it's hard to get me to fly in even mist 8)

1000 ft ceilings are practice days around here.

 

[Vance Harral]

Opinions vary by airplane and operation, of course.  I'm guessing an international 787 captain wouldn't call it "hard IFR" until cat III autoland is required.

For me, in piston singles, the distinction is generally whether one actually needs to fly a standard instrument approach to land, vs. simply descending through an overcast on an airway or vector, and being cleared for a visual approach below.  If I have to navigate IMC to the FAF, and especially if I'm still in the soup when I get there, I call that "hard IFR".

My rationale for this isn't so much how close the conditions are to minimums for the approach.  I think of it more in terms of how much VMC time I have to deal with a problem.  Imagine you're in the clouds, the engine fails, and you glide down to visual conditions.  If you have a couple of minutes to decide where to put it down once you can see, that's not hard IFR.  If you only have a couple of seconds, it is.

[DXB]

Nonsensical term.  More useful phrase would be "hard IMC"

[N201MKTurbo]

I think it varies by person. Low ceilings and vis don’t bother me, but severe bumps and high gusty wind makes me unhappy.

 

[201er]

1 hour ago, hubcap said:

I keep seeing this description used…so what is your definition? Icing? Low ceilings? Convection?

It’s quite simple really. Hard IFR is when it isn’t easy IFR. What you find easy or hard depends on experience, equipment, and proficiency.

[PeteMc]

Well, what is a "cold day" to you?  There is no real definition, but sort of like pornograghy, you'll know it when you see it! 

 

[201er]

36 minutes ago, DXB said:

Nonsensical term.  More useful phrase would be "hard IMC"

[cbarry]

Hard IMC to me is departing into IMC at just higher than the minimums to shoot the approach back into the departure field, remaining in IMC for the greater part of the flight and then shooting the approach to near minimums at the arrival field all while listening to ATC giving traffic advisories to aircraft responding “in IMC negative contact.”

[DXB]

10 minutes ago, cbarry said:

Hard IMC to me is departing into IMC at just higher than the minimums to shoot the approach back into the departure field, remaining in IMC for the greater part of the flight and then shooting the approach to near minimums at the arrival field all while listening to ATC giving traffic advisories to aircraft responding “in IMC negative contact.”

Basically that - IMC that imposes sustained cognitive demand and the plane and pilot better be up to the task - not merely an IFR flight where one is in and out of a few clouds or transitions through a thin layer.  People use "hard IFR" to refer to this condition frequently, but it seems to be a bit of a misnomer.  

[Shadrach]

 Hard IMC =  conditions at or near minimums at departure, en route and destination without divertable VFR.

HARD IFR =  flying a turbo, piston twin, single pilot in hard IMC. 

 

[FlyingDude]

19 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

HARD IFR =  flying a turbo piston twin, single pilot in hard IMC. 

+ without autopilot

[Fly Boomer]

4 hours ago, hubcap said:

I keep seeing this description used…so what is your definition? Icing? Low ceilings? Convection?

Can’t see anything outside the airplane.

[Pinecone]

12 hours ago, cbarry said:

Hard IMC to me is departing into IMC at just higher than the minimums to shoot the approach back into the departure field, remaining in IMC for the greater part of the flight and then shooting the approach to near minimums at the arrival field all while listening to ATC giving traffic advisories to aircraft responding “in IMC negative contact.”

That description is the same as mine.

[ArtVandelay]

To me Hard means you have IFR and other factors that make it more difficult. Turbulence, potential thunderstorms, potentially icing, night, reported clouds below minimums; all add additional stress.

[M20F]

Hard IMC is departure (where you aren’t breaking out right away) or landing close or at minimums (where tops aren’t low).  Flying around enroute in the clouds is a non event to me.  Taking off through a 500’ layer or landing through one not so much either. 

[Hank]

2 hours ago, M20F said:

Hard IMC is departure (where you aren’t breaking out right away) or landing close or at minimums (where tops aren’t low).  Flying around enroute in the clouds is a non event to me.  Taking off through a 500’ layer or landing through one not so much either. 

Most of my IMC is enroute, often clear at each end. Some of it has been quite hard . . . . Updrafts, downdrafts, general turbulence, sometimes the tail is forced sideways, streaming rain, the yoke jerking in my hands, rain drumming on the cabin and drowning out the radio in my Halo earpieces . . . . Makes climbing through that low layer on takeoff a breeze!

[Danb]

First off ‘hard “IFR” is different every decade or less and the equipment in your plane I’d think flying without an autopilot, dme, gps and just your good ol’ vor’s is different than todays state of the art avionics along with digital automation and autopilots.

if one could combine the worse case scenarios of basic elements weather, equipment difficult and complex weather conditions along with your todays proficiency into one flight you’d think it as hard IFR not even introducing icing or thunderstorms So if 1 the weather is near minimums with significant rain an wind plus 2. Is your equipment state of the art  full featured autopilot best glass etc 3 being on top Proficiency most important and 4 How do you feel today SAFE, maybe most important 

What I’m saying is Hard IFR varies with how we feel, length equipment automation etc.

my 2cents 

 

[EricJ]

Sounds like the name of an adult film set on a flight deck.     I'm skipping the easy puns, but they'd be oh, so easy... 

 

[Pinecone]

Until I got my 252 I never flew an airplane with a reasonable autopilot.  Most of my instrument time was in airplanes without an autopilot at all.  Single com, single nav.   

[0TreeLemur]

For me, it's when I'm flying in turbulence in IMC, a busy controller clears you a waypoint CRZZY, and you can't find CRAZY in the GPS, and they are too busy to ask for phonetic spelling, then then they tell you to descend, my passenger is feeling queezzy- then just as you find CRZZY, they tell you they have a rerouting, notify when ready to copy.

In my opinion, the flying isn't the hard part.  We practice every approach to minimums.  It's all the other stuff happening that sometimes makes single-pilot IFR so difficult.

[gmonnig]

When the dot is pink on ForeFlight.... and then I'm questioning how current I "really" am  hand flying when the shit hits the fan. Anymore I've become much more of a VFR guy. I used to be bold and a lot more comfortable flying IFR. 

[midlifeflyer]

I know it when I see it. 
 

"Hard IFR" is like "intuitive" and "obscene." Highly subjective.

[Ibra]

C152 flown with conventional single needle in bumpy low IMC conditions, no GPS, no AP add load of crosswind, rain showers with water leaking cockpit…anything else is relatively easy, smooth, or both