DeltaHawk DHK Engine Gains Certification

[Rotorhead]

https://www.avweb.com/ownership/engines/deltahawk-dhk180-receives-faa-certification/

[Fly Boomer]

8 minutes ago, Rotorhead said:

https://www.avweb.com/ownership/engines/deltahawk-dhk180-receives-faa-certification/

This has been a long road.  The original founders of the company were gone decades ago.  Unimaginable amounts of money poured into this project.

[toto]

What’s the deal with this engine? The article is very short on details … significant advantages over brand L and brand C?

[Fly Boomer]

2 minutes ago, toto said:

What’s the deal with this engine? The article is very short on details … significant advantages over brand L and brand C?

To me, the main points are that it burns Jet-A, and costs less than a turbine.  Not today or tomorrow, but avgas is on its way out.

[N201MKTurbo]

It is heavier and needs a radiator. It is a turbo diesel that burns Jet A and probably diesel fuel. It should be pretty efficient.
 

Everybody has been hankering for a modern engine, here is one. Let’s see if they put their money where their mouth is? 

[McMooney]

200hp version would be awesome in my E, well if i had Bill Gates money anyway

[Fly Boomer]

11 hours ago, McMooney said:

200hp version would be awesome in my E, well if i had Bill Gates money anyway

I suspect (but don't know) that certification of other versions of the basic design should be easier than the decades it took to get where they are now.  Also, I know that they had trouble finding a prop maker to certify a prop for the engine on one of their prototype engines.  Apparently, the torque pulses of the two-stroke diesel are very different from our four-stroke avgas-burning spark engines.

[aviatoreb]

Wow - they did it!  I was pretty excited about the idea of  this engine around 2007 when I had a Diamond DA40.

It is a great concept in principle - less moving parts than a converted Mercedes diesel - purpose built - highly efficient - and dont forget - avgas is less available and more expensive in many parts of the world.  If not here eventually.

[philiplane]

I installed the first prototype Deltahawk engine on their Cirrus SR20 test bed in 2013. Since then the engine has been heavily refined to make it ultra efficient and reliable, because the real intended market is long-range military surveillance drones. 

I would buy one over the diesel offerings from Continental and Austro.

[Hank]

5 minutes ago, philiplane said:

 . . . the real intended market is long-range military surveillance drones. 

The engine doesn't need FAA certification for that . . . .

[N201MKTurbo]

More info here:

https://www.deltahawk.com/

 

[1964-M20E]

On 5/18/2023 at 7:38 PM, McMooney said:

200hp version would be awesome in my E, well if i had Bill Gates money anyway

I'd take the 180HP version since it is turbo charged and super charged you get the 180HP full time.  If the price point is reasonable and we can get it for the Mooney I think I'd be in.

[Aerospace]

I'm at 2100 hours SMOH. Engine is healthy now but fairly soon (few years maybe) I will be looking for an engine solution. I wonder if this will be ready for Mooneys by then or if this will be another Dynon autopilot situation.

[Hank]

18 minutes ago, Aerospace said:

I'm at 2100 hours SMOH. Engine is healthy now but fairly soon (few years maybe) I will be looking for an engine solution. I wonder if this will be ready for Mooneys by then or if this will be another Dynon autopilot situation.

There's still hope for Dynon. TruTrak died on the vine when Bendix King bought them.

[kerry]

It will be interesting to see how that turbo will fit in front of the Mooney firewall. 

[Aerospace]

10 hours ago, Hank said:

There's still hope for Dynon. TruTrak died on the vine when Bendix King bought them.

I think so too, it just is taking years longer than expexted given that they were already selling to Mooney owners as if it was a few months away. I hope for their success soon because the Dynon system looks quite compelling.

Keeping this on topic by saying my concern is that we see the same thing from Deltahawk in a compelling pitch claiming imminent readiness followed by years of delay. That would screw a person over and cause AOG if their chosen engine kept getting schedule slipped in the way that Dynon's product did. 

[toto]

The DH site doesn’t seem to have any details on pricing… is this likely to be a $100k retrofit?

[kris_adams]

Looks to be ~75 pounds heavier than the IO360...love everything other than that.  I'm sure I could offload fuel based on lower fuel burn but still not thrilled with the weight.  Wonder if there are other net savings or other hidden weight gains

 

[1964-M20E]

On 6/1/2023 at 11:42 PM, kerry said:

It will be interesting to see how that turbo will fit in front of the Mooney firewall. 

the information from a while back had it fitting in the same foot print of the io360

[1964-M20E]

21 hours ago, kris_adams said:

Looks to be ~75 pounds heavier than the IO360...love everything other than that.  I'm sure I could offload fuel based on lower fuel burn but still not thrilled with the weight.  Wonder if there are other net savings or other hidden weight gains

 

maybe a prop that is lighter to help offset

[toto]

On 6/2/2023 at 7:28 AM, toto said:

The DH site doesn’t seem to have any details on pricing… is this likely to be a $100k retrofit?

I’ve been poking around the internet out of curiosity, and the closest I have come to a ballpark price is this article from 2019. DeltaHawk was offering a fully installed engine at their shop for $90k. 

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=0ea6abb1-9682-4493-9128-4668328acb28

(Note this was for experimental applications only.)

[A64Pilot]

8 hours ago, 1964-M20E said:

maybe a prop that is lighter to help offset

Very often a wooden prop can tolerate the Diesel’s torque impulses

[1980Mooney]

On 6/1/2023 at 11:42 PM, kerry said:

It will be interesting to see how that turbo will fit in front of the Mooney firewall. 

 

On 6/3/2023 at 7:59 AM, 1964-M20E said:

the information from a while back had it fitting in the same foot print of the io360

Per Lycoming A3B6D : Length: 33.3 in ; Width: 34.25 in ; Height: 19.35 in

DeltaHawk : Length: 33 in ; Width: 24 in ; Height: 22 in  

Look how much narrower the DeltaHawk is - 10 inches.  A new cowl can be much more aerodynamic with less frontal area.  I bet that will yeild significant speed gains and economy vs. the stock cowling.

They claim the same length.

[1980Mooney]

On 6/2/2023 at 10:15 AM, kris_adams said:

Looks to be ~75 pounds heavier than the IO360...love everything other than that.  I'm sure I could offload fuel based on lower fuel burn but still not thrilled with the weight.  Wonder if there are other net savings or other hidden weight gains

 

On 6/3/2023 at 8:00 AM, 1964-M20E said:

maybe a prop that is lighter to help offset

Here are some real world weights from EPI for a Lycoming in an RV.  Although a Lycoming IO-360 only weighs about 300 pounds dry, once it is installed the firewall forward weight with frame/mount and cowling is closer to 450 pounds. 

DeltaHawk is quoting 357 pounds.  It depends on what is in that total.  The DeltaHawk will not need all the baffling that the Lycoming needs.  Potentially the DeltaHawk cowling will be narrower and lighter.  Maybe the installed weight penalty is way less than the 75 lbs quoted above.

 

	200 HP Lyc IO-360-C1C6
Engine (complete)	293.0
Reduction Gearbox System
Air Cleaner	3.0
Inlet Air Duct	2.0
Alternate Air Mechanism	3.5
Exhaust Headers	7.0
Exh pipes to Muffler	2.0
Muffler	5.0
Exh pipes from Muffler	3.0
Oil Filter + 1 qt oil	included
Oil Heat Exchanger + 1 qt oil	9.9
Oil Lines	1.7
Engine Oil	14.2
Coolant Heat Exchanger
Expansion Tank
Overflow Tank
Coolant Lines
Coolant (14 qt)
Fuel Filter	2.2
Prop Governor	3.4
Vacuum Pump	2.5
Baffles / Ductwork	4.2
Propeller	55.0
Spinner	7.0
Cowling	22.0
Engine Mount	13.5
TOTAL	454.2

[EricJ]

37 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

 

Per Lycoming A3B6D : Length: 33.3 in ; Width: 34.25 in ; Height: 19.35 in

DeltaHawk : Length: 33 in ; Width: 24 in ; Height: 22 in  

Look how much narrower the DeltaHawk is - 10 inches.  A new cowl can be much more aerodynamic with less frontal area.  I bet that will yeild significant speed gains and economy vs. the stock cowling.

They claim the same length.

The radiators for the liquid cooling have to go somewhere.