Advice requested on damage incident

[whiskytango]

I went to the airport today to check the fuel level for a flight I was planning to take Thursday afternoon.  I also put the updated CF cards in the CNX80 and MX20.  Walking back to my truck, I couldn't remember if I closed the pilot's side window.  As I turned to walk back to the plane, I saw an unoccupied SUV moving in reverse just as it hit the plane on the left side of the engine cowling!!  See photos.  The SUV belonged to the FBO, and two employees had driven out to put a Baron in a hangar across from my Shadeport tiedown.  My guess is that they left the engine running, pulled the parking brake, but left the SUV in Reverse.   Eventually the SUV started moving and accelerated in reverse.  My best guess is that it was moving between 5 and 10 MPH when it hit the plane.

I have already met with the FBO manager, who is putting his insurance company on notice.  I also contacted AOPA Legal Services Plan to see what, if any, reports I should file with FAA.

I am seeking advice from the MooneySpace Brain Trust on the following Mooney issues:

1. The impact displaced the nose of the plane an estimated 18 inches.  My main concern is that the nose gear and main gear may have sustained impact-related side loads.  What inspections/testing should be done to determine if there is damage? 

2. The cowling has some exterior creasing (slight) and paint damage.  The cowling has not been removed yet.  Should I be looking for damage to the engine and/or engine mount?

3. At the point of impact I was not in a position to see if the SUV hit the prop.  After the impact the SUV was not in contact with the prop, and there is no obvious damage to the prop that would indicate there was contact.  Is the absence of any visible damage to the prop enough to rule out the need for an engine teardown?

4.  Is this the type of incident where a Mooney Service Center should be involved?  There is a very good shop on the field at KSAV that I have used in the past, but would I be better off getting a Ferry Permit and taking it to a MSC to evaluate the unusual issues here?

As if this wasn't bad enough, I would like to get all this resolved ASAP so that I don't lose my slot at Wet Wingologists in August.

  

 

[201Mooniac]

Wow, really sorry to see this, I feel really bad for you, this is one of my concernes every time I park outside.  I hope there isn't any problem with the insurance claim.  You should probably also contact your insurance company as they can help with getting the other company to pay.

1) I would definitely be worried the gear or mounting hardware is bent from the heavy sideloading needed to move it that significantly.  The track of the gear during gear cycle should be measured to see if there is any lateral displacement.  All bushings and bearing should be checked and preferably replaced.

2) I would expect to see more significant cowling damage if pushing on the cowling caused significant shifting to put side load on the motor mount but I would definitely have it looked at.

3) I would be concerned the prop was pushed out of the way and might have been loaded in an unusual direction.

4)  would definitely try to get the airplane to an MSC as they will (hopefully) better understand the areas to check for damage. 

[Aerodon]

and tell your insurance company about it, they are better at dealing with third parties than you are.

 

Don

[carusoam]

yikes!
 

This is up there with a ground strike…

Except, your wallet isn’t responsible to pay for the fixes…

You might consider… removing things firewall forward to inspect for damage…

Be looking for fire wall damage, motor mount damage…

Contact your insurance company for their assistance…

You and your insurance company are suddenly on the same team…. 

Good luck going forwards…

Best regards,

-a-

[KB4]

Get an estimate from nearest trusted MSC, submit to FBO insurance Co directly not FBO guy, they will cut you a check. 
 

18 inches?  Holy smokes.  I would pay Clarence to do the inspection, I don’t give a shit how much it would cost to fly him from Canada, if anyone can give a thorough inspection without missing anything it’s him.  If you had better pics, you would see what I mean. 

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, whiskytango said:

I went to the airport today to check the fuel level for a flight I was planning to take Thursday afternoon.  I also put the updated CF cards in the CNX80 and MX20.  Walking back to my truck, I couldn't remember if I closed the pilot's side window.  As I turned to walk back to the plane, I saw an unoccupied SUV moving in reverse just as it hit the plane on the left side of the engine cowling!!  See photos.  The SUV belonged to the FBO, and two employees had driven out to put a Baron in a hangar across from my Shadeport tiedown.  My guess is that they left the engine running, pulled the parking brake, but left the SUV in Reverse.   Eventually the SUV started moving and accelerated in reverse.  My best guess is that it was moving between 5 and 10 MPH when it hit the plane.

I have already met with the FBO manager, who is putting his insurance company on notice.  I also contacted AOPA Legal Services Plan to see what, if any, reports I should file with FAA.

I am seeking advice from the MooneySpace Brain Trust on the following Mooney issues:

1. The impact displaced the nose of the plane an estimated 18 inches.  My main concern is that the nose gear and main gear may have sustained impact-related side loads.  What inspections/testing should be done to determine if there is damage? 

That's probably not any worse than a bad landing, but even very bad landings have inspection criteria that go with them.    The maintenance manual for your airplane may have guidance.

1 hour ago, whiskytango said:

2. The cowling has some exterior creasing (slight) and paint damage.  The cowling has not been removed yet.  Should I be looking for damage to the engine and/or engine mount?

3. At the point of impact I was not in a position to see if the SUV hit the prop.  After the impact the SUV was not in contact with the prop, and there is no obvious damage to the prop that would indicate there was contact.  Is the absence of any visible damage to the prop enough to rule out the need for an engine teardown?

With no damage to the prop there is no basis for a prop strike in this case since the engine wasn't running.

1 hour ago, whiskytango said:

4.  Is this the type of incident where a Mooney Service Center should be involved?  There is a very good shop on the field at KSAV that I have used in the past, but would I be better off getting a Ferry Permit and taking it to a MSC to evaluate the unusual issues here?

If your shop is familiar with Mooneys it's not a bad idea to get them to look it over for damage that needs attention.    If you'd feel more confident taking it to an MSC then that's your call, but since the quality levels of shops and MSCs overlap quite a bit I don't think it's a necessity to do so just because it's an MSC.

The pilot determines airworthiness of the airplane, so if you want to take it to an MSC and don't think there's damage that would ground the airplane, especially if you get your shop to look at it, I don't know why a ferry permit would be needed.   I can't see any significant damage based on the pics, but that's a guy on the internet looking at pics, so that ain't worth much.

 

[cbarry]

It appears that after the impact, there’s not much clearance, if any, between the shade port’s post and the right flap.   I hope the overall the damage is very minimal and just in the area of the impact. 

[chriscalandro]

If you already have a good shop that knows your airplane, there is absolutely no reason to go to a MSC. There is nothing that special about the Mooney, let alone the nose gear, that any competent mechanic wouldn’t be able to inspect and fix. 
 

18 inches is a lot. Are you sure?

[whiskytango]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.  I now realize the need to put my insurance company on notice. When you are an Old Geezer, as I am, you want to keep a low profile with your insurance company, but they do need to know about this.

[Guest]

I have one on the go at the moment.  Airplane damaged by another airplane, “repairs” made by another shop.  The plane is in my shop for Annual and now we’ve discovered that the repairs are poorly done, basically needing to be completely re-done.  The insurance for the responsible party wanted to settle before we had a chance to inspect the work.  Proceed with caution.

Clarence

[Shadrach]

When I read “nose displaced 18 inches” I thought the nose had been displaced from the fuselage 18 inches which would likely total the airframe. In looking at the pics, I know understand you mean the nose wheel slid 18 inches laterally. I could be wrong, but I don’t think it would be possible to overload the gear with tire friction alone. Looks like it held up very well.

[N201MKTurbo]

Our Mooneys are tougher than most cars.

[kortopates]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.  I now realize the need to put my insurance company on notice. When you are an Old Geezer, as I am, you want to keep a low profile with your insurance company, but they do need to know about this.

There isn’t even a need to deal with or wait for the FBO’s insurance. Your insurance will make you whole fixing it to your satisfaction and then subrogate the FBO. Just get in touch with your insurance company and adjuster.


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[PT20J]

22 minutes ago, kortopates said:

There isn’t even a need to deal with or wait for the FBO’s insurance. Your insurance will make you whole fixing it to your satisfaction and then subrogate the FBO. Just get in touch with your insurance company and adjuster.


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Good advice. I've done that with a couple of auto accidents that were not my fault. I don't want to negotiate with someone else's insurance company when I pay my insurance company handsomely to defend me. And, it has never affected my rates which is what most fear. 

[Pinecone]

I always contact my insurance company first.  Now.

I had an auto accident, not my fault, that the repair shop missed some damage, that caused more damage.  The insurance refused to send someone to look, stating they did not miss anything.

I called my insurance company (USAA) and was told that sense I dealt with the other insurance company, they really could not get involved, but would try to help.  Later that same day, the other company called to schedule an adjuster to come look.  When he was shown the damaged part, he stated he probably would have missed the damage, even if the part was off the car.  They paid.

FYI, the problem was, the coil was pushed into light contact with a pulley.  Which made a small hole, that allowed the oil to leak out and the coil to short.  In the process of shorting, it took out the electronic ignition module, which in failing caused a very over rich condition to cook the cat, shatttering the core, which packed the muffler with ceramic bits.  So coil, electronic ignition module, cat, exhaust system and rental car for 10 days, as it failed on a a vacation trip.

[Shadrach]

5 hours ago, Pinecone said:

I always contact my insurance company first.  Now.

I had an auto accident, not my fault, that the repair shop missed some damage, that caused more damage.  The insurance refused to send someone to look, stating they did not miss anything.

I called my insurance company (USAA) and was told that sense I dealt with the other insurance company, they really could not get involved, but would try to help.  Later that same day, the other company called to schedule an adjuster to come look.  When he was shown the damaged part, he stated he probably would have missed the damage, even if the part was off the car.  They paid.

FYI, the problem was, the coil was pushed into light contact with a pulley.  Which made a small hole, that allowed the oil to leak out and the coil to short.  In the process of shorting, it took out the electronic ignition module, which in failing caused a very over rich condition to cook the cat, shatttering the core, which packed the muffler with ceramic bits.  So coil, electronic ignition module, cat, exhaust system and rental car for 10 days, as it failed on a a vacation trip.

Oil filled coil? This must have happened to an “interesting” car and not a daily driver.

[Fly Boomer]

17 hours ago, whiskytango said:

unoccupied SUV moving in reverse just as it hit the plane on the left side of the engine cowling!!

Sorry this happened to you but, if you are going to be hit by an SUV, this looks like the most benign crash you could hope for -- appears from pics to have missed the prop, and apparently missed the wing too.

If you can get a ferry permit, take it to an MSC.  No telling what hidden damage there might be.

[KB4]

11 hours ago, kortopates said:

There isn’t even a need to deal with or wait for the FBO’s insurance. Your insurance will make you whole fixing it to your satisfaction and then subrogate the FBO. Just get in touch with your insurance company and adjuster.


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Yes inform you insurer, but my 2 cents, do not put a claim into your insurance, unless and until you cannot get $$ out of FBO ins. which is unlikely if coverage was good at time.  There is no reason to make a claim on yours. Liability is crystal clear and you have none.  This is only a damages case, not IF it’s gonna cost them, but just HOW much.

 Can’t imagine that a 18” displacement to nose wouldn’t cause some hidden damage only trained eyes are gonna see.  Nose gear doesn’t act independently so I would be surprised not to find damage to other parts of gear that were not impacted directly. 

Remember the question on your renewal that asks “Have YOU made a claim in past X years?”  

[1980Mooney]

19 hours ago, whiskytango said:

4.  Is this the type of incident where a Mooney Service Center should be involved?  There is a very good shop on the field at KSAV that I have used in the past, but would I be better off getting a Ferry Permit and taking it to a MSC to evaluate the unusual issues here?

As if this wasn't bad enough, I would like to get all this resolved ASAP so that I don't lose my slot at Wet Wingologists in August.

 

1 hour ago, Fly Boomer said:

If you can get a ferry permit, take it to an MSC.  No telling what hidden damage there might be.

You are going to have to get the shop at KSAV involved regardless. If you are contemplating ferrying you will need an A&P to sign off the application for the ferry permit. He will need to get it on jacks. Maybe he finds no bending or cracks and you are good to go to Wet Wing or an MSC for a second opinion. Or maybe he stipulates that you fly it gear down during the ferry. 
 

You also need to inform both insurance companies if you plan to fly with a Ferry Permit. Some exclude coverage during ferry. Some cover only if notified before the ferry flight. If you choose to ferry and retract the gear and they jam while up or partially extended  resulting in a belly landing or if you fly with the gear down but the nose collapses on landing the FBO insurance company may say that you caused the gear up landing damage.  They will say it was your choice and not necessary  - could have been repaired on field  

 

[LBM]

Question:  if there is concern about possible damage to the nose gear would that include increased risk of mishap during landing on a ferry flight?  Not just gear collapse, if anything is bent does that make LOC on rollout a concern?

[jaylw314]

2 minutes ago, LBM said:

Question:  if there is concern about possible damage to the nose gear would that include increased risk of mishap during landing on a ferry flight?  Not just gear collapse, if anything is bent does that make LOC on rollout a concern?

I suppose a partial nosegear collapse would make control on landing fairly spicy?

[1980Mooney]

7 minutes ago, LBM said:

Question:  if there is concern about possible damage to the nose gear would that include increased risk of mishap during landing on a ferry flight?  Not just gear collapse, if anything is bent does that make LOC on rollout a concern?

Mooney’s land pretty straight gear up or nose gear collapsed. They stop really quickly. Of course it could slide off the pavement. The problem is that it will add $40-80 k in damages to the current damage. 

[1980Mooney]

FYI. 

https://resources.savvyaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/articles_eaa/EAA_2014-04_ferry-permits.pdf

https://pilot-protection-services.aopa.org/news/2015/september/16/a-special-flight-permit-may-mean-flying-without-insurance

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/phl/local_more/media/ferry_permit.pdf

[flyboy0681]

I noticed the plane is tied down with ropes and the right wing has slack in it but the left one is taut. Could the movement have caused the rope to become so tight that it placed pressure on the wing?

[whiskytango]

Update: I contacted my insurance carrier, and the adjustor actually recommended that I file a Claim on my insurance.  The adjustor said that they have a "history" with this FBO, where the FBO's insurance company will not admit liability (even in the most obvious cases of sole liability) until they do a very lengthy "investigation" of the incident.  This has resulted in  major delays in getting damaged aircraft repaired.  He authorized me to have the aircraft inspected, which I plan to do at the maintenance facility on the field.  Repairs can be done locally or at a MSC.  My carrier will then Subrogate the loss against the FBO, to help them find their checkbook sooner than later.